AR performance issues - Need some input.

[bluesea112]

Several years ago, I bought a Bushmaster Varmint series rifle chambered in .223. That rifle gave me headaches from the start. It was short cycling, and about half the time it would not eject the spend case. I sent it back to Bushmaster 3 (Three) times, and each time they said their repair department fired a full magazine through it without any problems. I finally came to terms with the fact that Bushmaster employs bafoons and gave up.

My second AR purchase was a Smith & Wesson M&P15. That rifle fires like a dream. It will cycle old corroded ammo as well as top end cartridges without a hiccup. Anything I fire through that rifle punches a 3/4" group at 100 yards.

I would like to buy another AR, but I keep wondering if the great performance of the Smith AR I bought was a fluke or the standard? I know I don't want to buy a Bushmaster, because their repair technicians are sub-par at best.

I would like to hear some of your opinions on AR rifles. Is there a particular manufacturer that is known for producing rifles that are more reliable than everybody else? What I want is a rifle that will print groups under 1" at 100 yards that will also cycle both cheap and expensive ammo. When the shtf, you have to use whatever ammo is available at the time, so I want a rifle that will cycle everything...including cartridges that are not loaded to maximum pressures and green corroded junk.

What say you?

[Zane71464]

I bought the Stag Arms Model 3 (5.56) some time back and it'll shoot/cycle about any ammo
I've put through it, with the exception of the TulAmmo.
Right after I bought the AR, I bought some of the TulAmmo for the price, as it was cheap
to buy and found out, the Stag wont take it!
As far as groups, it'll shoot sub-moa at 100yds with several brands of factory ammo.
I havent had an issue with it since I bought it new, (right at a year ago) and have put
lord knows, how many rounds through it so far!
I have NO complaint at all with the Stag AR!
Pic below is right after I'd bought it. Since then, I changed scope mounts.

[JLA]

I recommend a DPMS Lo Pro Charles. The one I had was not at all picky and loved to shoot 1/2 inch groups.

[Snakedriver]

When I made my AR buying decision recently, my research took me to Rock River Arms (RRA). Their rifles are known for their accuracy and along with a Lifetime Performance Warranty also come with a 1" Accuracy Guarantee. Some of their Varmit models come with a 3/4" Accuracy Guarantee.

They can be ordered direct from the factory on their website with the features you want and then sent to your local gun dealer for transfer to you or you may be able find one at your local gun shop. $900 to $1200 for a complete rifle would be common.

I've been very pleased with the way mine has performed so far and I know you'd be thrilled with one too.

[hardluk1]

The M&P 15sport i have is a dream. Acurate as no other rifle at 1000 dolars or below will be. fires ever cheap or pricy ammo I have tried. Love that R5 barrel and the melonite treatment on it.

[cjh7819]

Just bought an AR from Superior arms. So far I've been impressed, Dosent have a scope yet but the open site shooting that I've done so far has been pretty accurate. Their guns carry a Lifetime warranty to the original owner. So far it hasn't missed a beat.

[TRAP55]

It was short cycling, and about half the time it would not eject the spend case. I sent it back to Bushmaster 3 (Three) times, and each time they said their repair department fired a full magazine through it without any problems. I finally came to terms with the fact that Bushmaster employs bafoons and gave up.

bluesea, If you still have the rifle, check the bolt carrier key fit to the end of the gas tube. Bushmaster had a QC problem with some parts, and that is the most common problem.

[Brass Tacks]

another M&P owner, can't recall ever having a stoppage.

[Helix_FR]

We never see issues with the M&P's. DPMS, Stags or Armalites. Olympics are really the only troublemakers that we get.

[gdmoody]

I have had three Bushmasters, two regular old gas impingement system and one gas piston, never had any kind of problems with them at al. I no longer have the two regular gas systems ones. I did buy a 5.45X39 upper and attached it to the Bushmaster that I kept. The only problem I had with that one was several FTF because the hammer spring was too weak. The upper is a S&W and it came a new spring. After changing the spring, no more problems. I have a Rock River lower on layaway at my local shop so I can put my Bushmaster back together.

I also just built one using parts from every where and the upper and lower being an R-Guns matched set.

[gdmoody]

An afterthought just came to me. I was reading a story in Shotgun News a couple of weeks ago. When the owner of Bushmaster sold his company to some huge outfit, they closed down the plant and moved the operation to New York. It left all of these people in Windham, Maine out of a job. The owner of the old Bushmaster opened up a new place and hired all of his old employees back. The place is named Windham Weaponry.

Here is a link to their site, where the story is: http://www.windhamweaponry.com/shopn...spiring%20Tale

[TRAP55]

Originally Posted by Helix_FR

We never see issues with the M&P's. DPMS, Stags or Armalites. Olympics are really the only troublemakers that we get.

Helix, I've heard all kinds of bad things about Oly Arms AR's.
Is this something that's common with all the post factory fire rifles, or just Oly in general?
I had two I bought in '82 before the fire, Hbar prototype was stolen back in 91, still have the carbine. Both function without a hiccup. I've lost count on how many rounds this carbine has had through it, well over 6000 by now. Still puts em all in the X ring if I do my part.
The only time I had a problem, was when Wolf ammo first hit the market with the lacquer coated cases. What a PITA to clean that mess out! The newer poly coated stuff cycles through it like a bug through a goose.

[oneshot onekill]

I have a question... Are we talking about Box-stock 16" carbines? Because if we are some of you guys are so full of $hit your eyes must be brown. You will NEVER see consistent 1/2"-3/4" groups out of a 16" box-stock S&W, DPMS, RRA, ARMALITE, BUSHMASTER or any other AR Carbine in the price range of those... PERIOD! 1-2 MOA is about it. Not sayin' you can't get lucky. But the rifle won't do it consistently.

[3/2 STA SS]

My Colt M4 would do it and it was stock. 100 yds 1/2'' groups.

[Regular Joe]

Originally Posted by 3/2 STA SS

My Colt M4 would do it and it was stock.

Eyes are brown, and runny! There is an excellent reason why the barrels for National Match are 20".

[TRAP55]

Define Box-stock 16" carbines?
16" Oly Arms, NIB year ago last July, 1-9 twist, Winchester white box 62grn, 10x Redfield, one hole group, then I shot all four thumb tacks that were holding the target. 4 witnesses, 2 of them are members here, one owns the rifle.
I'm not full of $hit, my eyes are brown, and if my kid still has the video on his computer, I'll let you watch me do it.

[Zane71464]

Originally Posted by oneshot onekill

I have a question... Are we talking about Box-stock 16" carbines? Because if we are some of you guys are so full of $hit your eyes must be brown. You will NEVER see consistent 1/2"-3/4" groups out of a 16" box-stock S&W, DPMS, RRA, ARMALITE, BUSHMASTER or any other AR Carbine in the price range of those... PERIOD! 1-2 MOA is about it. Not sayin' you can't get lucky. But the rifle won't do it consistently.

I beg to differ. I can hold less than 3/4" groups with my Stag Arms all-day-long
at 100yds. (less than 3/4"...period!) And VERY consistently.
(maybe it's not the carbine, maybe it's just me?)

[LDBennett]

We built up a Varmint AR out of Stag Arms parts and the first firings were a disappointment as the gun would not reliably cycle. But it was not the gun but the ammo.

The Wolf ammo had been inadvertently stored in a closed cabinet with open pool chlorine. Each case was discolored and the powder inside must have been affected. When shot with my reloads (52 gr hunting bullets and 75 gr target bullets) the gun functioned flawlessly.

On another AR varmint gun the bullet would not reach the target (really!). They were disintegrating in-flight. They were 52 gr hunting bullets in a very fast twist barrel. The spin was disintegrating them. When heavy premium bullets were shot in this gun, it grouped well.

Don't be quick to assume a particular gun to be bad until trying other ammo or loads.

LDBennett

[Snakedriver]

Originally Posted by oneshot onekill

I have a question... Are we talking about Box-stock 16" carbines? Because if we are some of you guys are so full of $hit your eyes must be brown. You will NEVER see consistent 1/2"-3/4" groups out of a 16" box-stock S&W, DPMS, RRA, ARMALITE, BUSHMASTER or any other AR Carbine in the price range of those... PERIOD! 1-2 MOA is about it. Not sayin' you can't get lucky. But the rifle won't do it consistently.

...........but wait, my 16" RRA mid-length came with a 1" factory accuracy guarantee and some of their other models come with a 3/4" accuracy guarantee. I've not been disappointed either. My RRA AR has been 100% reliable so far and IS extremely accurate with the variety of ammo I have used in it. I'm using 55 gr. ammo BTW, I haven't come up with a valid reason to shoot tracers or heavy bullets yet.

[3/2 STA SS]

Originally Posted by Regular Joe

Eyes are brown, and runny! There is an excellent reason why the barrels for National Match are 20".

NO my eyes are Hazel and I am serious. Sorry you are not as experienced I guess. People fall for the "match grade " moniker all the time. I know my ability with a rifle. Sorry you are a non believer. At 100 yds. ,.223,all day long. When I was in the USMC groups not as tight but I always shot expert(4th award,.45/9mm pistol I was a Sharpshooter X 4) and that was from the 200-500 yard line with the M16A2.
At the D range at Camp Lejeune,at the 2nd Mar.Div. Sniper School where I attended it was out from 200 to 1000 yds with the M40A1(7.62X51mm,173 grain match ammo). In Kuwait 1991 it was 3 guys (Iraqis)at 450 yards on Falaka Island off Kuwait City. One was an RPK gunner and the other two were attempting to set up a mortar and all were along a trench line they had dug in waiting for our arrival.

[JLA]

Originally Posted by oneshot onekill

I have a question... Are we talking about Box-stock 16" carbines? Because if we are some of you guys are so full of $hit your eyes must be brown. You will NEVER see consistent 1/2"-3/4" groups out of a 16" box-stock S&W, DPMS, RRA, ARMALITE, BUSHMASTER or any other AR Carbine in the price range of those... PERIOD! 1-2 MOA is about it. Not sayin' you can't get lucky. But the rifle won't do it consistently.

Ill call BS on this absurd statement. The DPMS Lo Pro I had was an easy 1/2 MOA gun all day long and it was a bull 16" out of the box. All I did was drop a Chip McCormick trigger in it and a burris fullfield in a PEPR mount.

Come spend a day with me at my range sometime.

[Regular Joe]

Killing people is NOT a qualifier. I've been doing this for 48 years. I too am a veteran. I have hand loaded on a single stage press more .223 ammo than most of the internet wunderboyz have ever SEEN. Amazing things happen on that perfect day, maybe once every several years. We keep at it because that perfect day doesn't happen every day, and not for many days in an entire lifetime.
I'll keep messing with my current AR, and the day will come when I'll have 10 shots touching at 200 yards. Yesterday, I got 4 out of 10 to land in the same 3/8" hole @ 200. There will be a huge number of 2 moa groups fired in the meantime, but I'll be showing that "perfect" target for all to see... It will MOST CERTAINLY NOT have been fired with a 16" barrel.

[Snakedriver]

Originally Posted by Regular Joe

Killing people is NOT a qualifier. I've been doing this for 48 years. I too am a veteran. I have hand loaded on a single stage press more .223 ammo than most of the internet wunderboyz have ever SEEN. Amazing things happen on that perfect day, maybe once every several years. We keep at it because that perfect day doesn't happen every day, and not for many days in an entire lifetime.
I'll keep messing with my current AR, and the day will come when I'll have 10 shots touching at 200 yards. Yesterday, I got 4 out of 10 to land in the same 3/8" hole @ 200. There will be a huge number of 2 moa groups fired in the meantime, but I'll be showing that "perfect" target for all to see... It will MOST CERTAINLY NOT have been fired with a 16" barrel.

Joe, 2 MOA is a 4" group at 200 yards, which seems to be the range you are shooting at. Almost any 16" AR-15 with any ammo should easily be able to achieve that. 1 MOA or 2" at 200 yards should also be something the average shooter should be able to accomplish with a decent AR and good ammunition. I know my 16" RRA has no problem doing better than that on any day, much less the "perfect day".

While it may seem like a long distance to you, 200 yards is less than half of the effective range for the standard AR and is well within the capability of the gun with a 16" barrel. The standard M4 comes with a 14.5" barrel and is still good out to 500 yards with very good accuracy capability.

[3/2 STA SS]

Originally Posted by Regular Joe

Killing people is NOT a qualifier. I've been doing this for 48 years. I too am a veteran. I have hand loaded on a single stage press more .223 ammo than most of the internet wunderboyz have ever SEEN. Amazing things happen on that perfect day, maybe once every several years. We keep at it because that perfect day doesn't happen every day, and not for many days in an entire lifetime.
I'll keep messing with my current AR, and the day will come when I'll have 10 shots touching at 200 yards. Yesterday, I got 4 out of 10 to land in the same 3/8" hole @ 200. There will be a huge number of 2 moa groups fired in the meantime, but I'll be showing that "perfect" target for all to see... It will MOST CERTAINLY NOT have been fired with a 16" barrel.

Keep reloading then...I wasn't professing to be a killer. I was good at my job,done under fire I might add which puts " alittle stress" on the shooter and was just stating my ability with a rifle. I always put 10 rounds in the ONE SPOTTER at 300 yards with a standard M16A2 during the rapid fire event. Maybe you need some snapping in at the shooting barrel...just saying. Semper Fi Mac.

[JLA]

I was gonna say the same thing snake. It is just 200 yds. I can shoot a fair decent group with my 6" .357 at that range.

I suppose some folks are just more practiced than others.