AR performance issues - Need some input.

[American Leader]

Seems like everybody is a little tochey tonight? Hey bluesea, I love my S&W Sport as well. It groups reloads real well out of the box with scope added and I am very happy with it! I will not give the size of the group because I don't want to be labeled "liar, liar pants unfire", but it is always very respectable, especially with the handloads! Enjoy that S&W, price was right!

[oneshot onekill]

Well, I'm obviously outnumbered by a lot of people who have done amazing things "all day long" with rifles that simply will not shoot sub-MOA all day long. By "box stock" I meant straight from the manufacturer with an M4 contour chrome-lined barrel, crappy 2-stage military trigger, stock BCG and a bird-cage flash hider. Price range... $750-$1400.

Maybe I should just go back to "SH" where there's not quite so many "crack-shots" and stick to Tactical Long-range Shooting discussions with real Experts.

[cycloneman]

Flip a coin.

[JLA]

Adios chief.. Or you can come shootn with me and become a believer.

[cycloneman]

OK

I find all 3 to be reliable. S&W, DPMS, Bushmaster too. In fact i have a oly arms that is great.

OK first thing you want is a rifle that is reliable. 2nd is finding the ammo your rifle likes. I have a very high end 223 that will not shoot worth a darn with fmj bullets. It must have v maxes then it will put bullets in a dime size groups at 100 yrds.

Remember eveyone, factory run of the mill target ammo is not match ammo. Barrel twist in the 223 is critical for stabilizing the different bullets. You will never know if you got a GREAT rifle till you bought it and used it. It is unfair to take a rifle and shoot it with run of the mill factory ammo at 100 yrds and call it accurate or not. Just my take.

S&W, Dpms that is why i say flip a coin. If the rifle does not do what you want it to do then modify it or get out from under it and try again. Hate to say it but that is how i see it.

[3/2 STA SS]

Originally Posted by JLA

Adios chief.. Or you can come shootn with me and become a believer.

+1

[JLA]

Couldnt agree more Cyclone. Cept Ill add that you can custom tailor ammo to a specific rifle thru careful handloading and make a real tackshooter out of even a 16 inch barrel carbine.

[M1AG30]

Originally Posted by oneshot onekill

Maybe I should just go back to "SH" where there's not quite so many "crack-shots" and stick to Tactical Long-range Shooting discussions with real Experts.

if you feel strongly about it ......

[3/2 STA SS]

Originally Posted by M1AG30

if you feel strongly about it ......

I have met some individuals there who claimed to be "experts"....one guy couldn't even tell me some basic info when it came to using mil dots in range estimation (something I did ALOT). I was not very impressed.

[jack404]

not anywhere near a AR expert but put some together that will do 4" at 600 all day long as long as the shooters up for it

dont beleive me , look at the skill at arms tournament held here in Australia annually

last time i was in it i ended up in a tie breaker with a US guy

me and my styer , he and his AR and we tied again...

so we tossed a coin .. he won

but thats just military shooters ..

[3/2 STA SS]

Originally Posted by jack404

not anywhere near a AR expert but put some together that will do 4" at 600 all day long as long as the shooters up for it

dont beleive me , look at the skill at arms tournament held here in Australia annually

last time i was in it i ended up in a tie breaker with a US guy

me and my styer , he and his AR and we tied again...

so we tossed a coin .. he won

but thats just military shooters ..

Me and My M16A2 would do it. I loved that rifle and it was a Colt. All it takes is practice and determination.

[JLA]

And someone to call you a liar from time to time to keep you motivated to prove them wrong.

[3/2 STA SS]

Originally Posted by JLA

And someone to call you a liar from time to time to keep you motivated to prove them wrong.

Yes sir!!

[Regular Joe]

Looks like it's time for me to move on to the company of mere mortals as well. I know what rifles do. I know what keyboards do. You are welcome to yours.

[jack404]

hate to say this but the young fellas at the skill at arms shoot ( current one shooting now) are making us all look like amateurs ... just sayin,

the chinese snipers are outshooting almost everyone

[jack404]

pic 1

PUCKAPUNYAL, Australia (May. 12, 2012) - Beijing Military Region, People's Republic of China, discuss marksmanship with U.S. Marine Staff Sgt. Travis W. Hawthorne (right) while looking through the optic of a M4 service rifle during the 2012 Australian Army Skill at Arms Meeting (AASAM). AASAM is an international marksmanship competition consisting of 16 different countries. This year is the fifth iteration of AASAM and the third consecutive year that US forces have been invited to participate.

Pic two

The USMC bugger who outshot me , 6 years i had my name on that cup ..

oh well times gotta roll i guess

[jack404]

1000 meter comp just started

AR's a plenty

[permafrost]

It's absolutely amazing to me when someone can't do something , everyone else is full of ****! Grow up and put in some more time and effort. Do your homework! Jeez!

[jack404]

frosty , i made a mistake of butchering the first deer i shot here and eating it instead of taking pic's and telling everyone , and when i did . heck i was the lowest lying SOB

then some woman got killed by one when she hit it at night in her car ..

then everyone overnight stated of course theirs deer here .. who did not know that ??

23 days after banning me for lying in that very same forum ....

ya get used to it

some folks do , some dont

i like doing or trying to do as best i can

do ok at it too , not perfect but what is ??

would love to be 25 again knowing what i know now ..

[permafrost]

Originally Posted by jack404

frosty , i made a mistake of butchering the first deer i shot here and eating it instead of taking pic's and telling everyone , and when i did . heck i was the lowest lying SOB

then some woman got killed by one when she hit it at night in her car ..

then everyone overnight stated of course theirs deer here .. who did not know that ??

23 days after banning me for lying in that very same forum ....

ya get used to it

some folks do , some dont

i like doing or trying to do as best i can

do ok at it too , not perfect but what is ??

would love to be 25 again knowing what i know now ..

Me too, maybe I wouldn't be so cynical.

[3/2 STA SS]

Originally Posted by permafrost

It's absolutely amazing to me when someone can't do something , everyone else is full of ****! Grow up and put in some more time and effort. Do your homework! Jeez!

I guess they didn't pay attention when it was time to snap in...I did and always shot expert. It is the reason why my grandfather gave me all of his rifles and he was a Camp Perry Shooter on Civilian teams in the 40's and 50's.

[JLA]

The thing i dont get is shooting well really isnt that hard. It just takes practice and precise application of basic fundamentals. Making sure you do everything the exact same way every single time, and going further to ensure each and every round is as exact to the one before and after it as possible, of course this is only if you handload. Simple attention to detail and the precise application of basic skills. Nothing more.

It irritates me that you get a couple guys that just cant do it, and are too damn stubborn and proud to forget what they think they know and learn it again, then call eveyone that can do it a liar because it just cant be possible if they cant do it..

My own Father is like that, guy cant hit the broad side of a barn form inside it with a handgun, but if he gets one shot on the target he will swear every single bullet went thru the same exact hole.

[Zane71464]

Originally Posted by JLA

The thing i dont get is shooting well really isnt that hard. It just takes practice and precise application of basic fundamentals. Making sure you do everything the exact same way every single time, and going further to ensure each and every round is as exact to the one before and after it as possible, of course this is only if you handload. Simple attention to detail and the precise application of basic skills. Nothing more.
It irritates me that you get a couple guys that just cant do it, and are too damn stubborn and proud to forget what they think they know and learn it again, then call eveyone that can do it a liar because it just cant be possible if they cant do it..
My own Father is like that, guy cant hit the broad side of a barn form inside it with a handgun, but if he gets one shot on the target he will swear every single bullet went thru the same exact hole.

That's it Josh, you nailed it! It's alot to do with repetition and doing it the same way every, single time. And praticeing the same, over and over until it become a natural instict when you put your finger on the trigger.

I know several people like that and you cannot tell them a thing! I was with one guy at the range, an old friend. For starters, we got the long range rifles out and got set up. I got set up with sand bags and was set. Well, he didnt "use" sand bags he said and that's all good, what ever works I told him!
He wasnt useing them and was shooting with a different "hold" every single shot. I thought I might share my thoughts as to why he couldnt hold a 2"group at 100yds. He didnt wanna hear it at all, and all he had to say was, "we all have bad days!" I agreed with him.
Ya cant fix stupid...just cant be done! That was the first and last time we'd ever shot together.

[jack404]

do you folks have a thing whereby if you score a "possible"

the club gives you a small medal or something?? we do here

we mainly use it in pistol comps but do so at a lot of places for rifle as well

back when i had a AR http://www.thefirearmsforum.com/show...1&postcount=71

i shot a possible at the combined tourney with it thats 200m 400m and 600m

if you note the rifle , its the same as sent by colt after i got the permit to import

[3/2 STA SS]

Originally Posted by jack404

do you folks have a thing whereby if you score a "possible"

the club gives you a small medal or something?? we do here

we mainly use it in pistol comps but do so at a lot of places for rifle as well

back when i had a AR http://www.thefirearmsforum.com/show...1&postcount=71

i shot a possible at the combined tourney with it thats 200m 400m and 600m

if you note the rifle , its the same as sent by colt after i got the permit to import

It was just cool too see one big spotter disc at the 300 yard line and the red/white shot marker lolipop waving back and forth when I was in the USMC. It was kinda like telling everyone "hey look what I can do".