1891 Mauser Agentine - Sporterized to .308

[toggy]

Hey all, this is my first post here. I have been a lurker for years.

I have been offered a decent deal on a 1891 argentine Mauser that was "sporterized" for .308.

I have a gun shop to check it out to make sure the barrel AND chamber are actually appropriate for .308.

My concern is that the round might be too powerful for the old Mauser. I have seen several that have been converted to shoot .308 but I don't want to risk injury (at least not more than normal)

Has anyone shot an .308 1891 mauser? Perhaps there's lighter rounds I should use if I do purchase it?

i am also curious if I can use non-lead Hornady rounds in it. I feed my kids lots of venison.

Thanks all. Tom

[JLA]

ID be most concerned with how it was done. If the barrel was simply set back and has a .308 chamber cut then it not gonna shoot worth a hoot because of the oversized bore dimensions.

But you are right. .308 win pressures at 60K are a bit above that of the 7.65X53 argentines 45-50K.

[toggy]

Well, I've decided against it. A couple gunsmiths mentioned that the 1891 has a weaker action. Now to continue the hunt for a Mauser.

[JLA]

If you want a sporter mauser look for one built on a K98 action. they will withstand a stick of dynamite.

[Hammerslagger]

I agree with all comments made on this matter by JLA.

You also might want to keep your eyes open for Type 98 Mausers made in Serbia (or formerly Yugoslavia) by the Serbian "CZ" which translates at "State Arms Factory" in both the Serbo-Croatian and Czech languages. {As best I can determine, the Serb and Czech firms just share the logo, nothing more.} The Serb Mauser sporting rifles have long been a great value for the money, if you want a Type 98 sporting rifle.

These rifles were made for Interarms as the "Mark X", Charles Daly as "Mauser", Remington as "Spartan", and likely others that I do not remember at the moment.

Currently, one auction has a like new C. Daly in .30-06 for $500.00.

Also the Israelis converted a large number of 98K's to 7.62 x 51 for home guard duty. They were retired and sold in the USA about 20 years ago. Most were cosmetically in rough condition; but were serviceable and cheap.

[CHW2021]

You are prudent to skip on the Argentine, it would be marginally safe at best. Look for a k98 action if you want to go the sporter route; otherwise, look at the newer production "low end" rifles such as the academy sport and walmart package guns. These do not offer all the bells and whistles, but are a solid buy in the 250-350 price range.

K98 actions (large ring mausers) were made by dozens of countries and are a strong design, I hunt with a sportered (butchered actually) turkish mauser that is nicely accurate in the original 8mm and is strongly built. Almost any large ring mauser design rifle should be a safe bet rather than the small ring (weaker breech) design of the 1891 type rifles.

[toggy]

Plus a Russin Mosin has caught my eye. I have the urge to try one of these guns I am used to seeing in old war movies...

[Munch]

Both the Argentine and the Mosin are great rifles in their original chambering IMO. I have both and love them each equally. I think I'd pass on that 308 sporter also, thats putting a LOT of faith in someone and their work.

[CHW2021]

If you are looking at the Mosin rifle, get off the sidelines and buy it!! These rifles are a "best buy" in centerfire, and if the bore is good, the accuracy is surprising. Please look at the safety before deciding to carry for hunting and be aware of it's limitations. Ballistically, the 7.62x54 is at .308 levels and will work for anything you are likely to hunt.....except squirrels.
I have enjoyed mine and take a m44 carbine version in the field.

[soundguy]

Originally Posted by Munch

Both the Argentine and the Mosin are great rifles in their original chambering IMO. I have both and love them each equally. I think I'd pass on that 308 sporter also, thats putting a LOT of faith in someone and their work.

reminds me of an arisaka i saw converted to 30-06. must have been a type 99 i'm guessing..?? was scared to even pick it up to look at it..

[Hawg]

Originally Posted by soundguy

reminds me of an arisaka i saw converted to 30-06. must have been a type 99 i'm guessing..?? was scared to even pick it up to look at it..

The Arisaka is a stronger action than the 98 Mauser. The 38 is stronger than the 99 but the 99 is still stronger than a Mauser.

[soundguy]

wow.. surprising. most I hear talk lowly of them. I always kinda considered the large ring mauser as a the pseudo gold standard.

is the type 38 stronger due to the smaller diameters involved?

[JLA]

Arisakas are way overbuilt compared to the venerable ol Mauser 98 action. And i see them converted all the time to .30-06. A pointless conversion IMO since most just simply has a .30-06 reamer run into the 7.7 jap chamber, which works, if al you really want is a rifle that goes boom and is marginally minute of watermelon at 50 yards. The 7.7 jap chambering utilizes a .311 projectile just like a .303 brit, in fact the 7.7 jap and the .303 brit are damn near identical, cept the 7.7 jap is rimless. The .30-06 uses a .308 projectile which doesnt work all that well in a .311 bore.

[TRAP55]

wow.. surprising. most I hear talk lowly of them.

That comes from the uninformed, shooting "school Rifles" that were made for training and shooting blanks, not for shooting military ball ammo.
I've run across two 91 Argys that were re-chambered to .308. Loaded to .300 Savage specs with cast bullets, one was surprisingly accurate for a .308 bullet traveling down a .312 bore.
Minute of beer can, at 100yrds was consistent.
The other one had a steady diet of commercial .308, to the point the locking lug setback was so bad, you could hardly open the bolt.

[soundguy]

Originally Posted by JLA

Arisakas are way overbuilt compared to the venerable ol Mauser 98 action. And i see them converted all the time to .30-06. A pointless conversion IMO since most just simply has a .30-06 reamer run into the 7.7 jap chamber, which works, if al you really want is a rifle that goes boom and is marginally minute of watermelon at 50 yards. The 7.7 jap chambering utilizes a .311 projectile just like a .303 brit, in fact the 7.7 jap and the .303 brit are damn near identical, cept the 7.7 jap is rimless. The .30-06 uses a .308 projectile which doesnt work all that well in a .311 bore.

guess it must roll out the bbl like a bowling ball....

[JLA]

no they grip the rifling buit there are gaps around the bullet between the rifling. gas destroys the base of the bullet, which is the steering end and the result is low velocity and bad accuracy.

[soundguy]

ahh.. thanks! so it ends up being a hot led/copper spitwad that may or may not hit the target!

[JLA]

pretty much. The hot gasses behind a bullet if not sealed will partially melt the base away depositing it in the bore. Its particularly bad with lead projectiles that dont fit the bore.

[JLA]

FYI, did you know you can chamber and fire a 7X57 mauser round in a 7.65X53 argentine chamber?? It will chamber and fire, the bullet will exit the bore along with a bunch of unburnt powder and you will have to hammer the case out of the chamber with a dowell. Dont ask me how I figured that one out..

[soundguy]

sweet!

fire forming brass were you?

[JLA]

Accidentally yes... But it goes back to the ol "make sure the ammo youre using exactly matches the markings on the gun"..