Fifty years old....really?

[Remington 51]

Below is a cut/paste from the ATF brochure on C and R requirements:

What is a firearm curio or relic?

Firearm curios or relics include firearms which have special value to collectors because they possess some qualities not
ordinarily associated with firearms intended for sporting use or as offensive or defensive weapons. To be recognized as
curios or relics, firearms must fall within one of the following categories:

1) Have been manufactured at least 50 years prior to the current date, but not including replicas thereof; or
2) Be certified by the curator of a municipal, State, or Federal museum which exhibits firearms to be curios
or relics of museum interest; or
3) Derive a substantial part of their monetary value from the fact that they are novel, rare, bizarre, or from
the fact of their association with some historical figure, period, or event.

[27 CFR 478.11]

Does this mean that ANY firearm over 50 years old automatically gets C and R status on that account alone?

Or does it mean that any firearm over 50 years old is subject to being designated by the ATF as a C and R?

In other words, do I need to see a specific ATF listing for any specific firearm (by model number) to know that it indeed is a C and R firearm?

[deadin]

ANY firearm over 50 years old automatically gets C and R status

^^^^^
^ This ^

[CampingJosh]

Anything 50+ years old is a curio/relic. (Don't point that out to the older guys on here. )

Numbers 2 and 3 explain how guns less than 50 years old can also be a curio/relic.

[3/2 STA SS]

Originally Posted by deadin

^^^^^
^ This ^

Try and find a C/R AK 47....I have yet to see one....

[deadin]

Did any make it in before the registry was closed?

[Ursus]

So in 2 months, I'll be clasified as a relic ??!!!!

[CampingJosh]

Originally Posted by 3/2 STA SS

Try and find a C/R AK 47....I have yet to see one....

Originally Posted by deadin

Did any make it in before the registry was closed?

NFA rules still apply to most C&R guns.

Edit to Add: And there are tons of C&R AK-47s out there. http://atf.gov/publications/download...-p-5300-11.pdf

[Jim K]

Some comments:

1. The 50 year rule means 50 years from the current date, whatever that is. It applies to an individual gun, based on its date of manufacture in its current condition. It does not apply to the model date or the date of introduction of the model.

2. If a gun was altered in such a way to change its configuration, the 50 year date starts over at the time it was altered. A Mauser rifle made in 1940 is a C&R; but if it was "sporterized" in 1990, it won't become a C&R again until 2040.

3. Being a C&R does NOT remove a firearm from the purview of the NFA. A WWII STEN gun, for example, is a C&R, but still is a machinegun subject to NFA rules. As a C&R, it can, however, be shipped interstate to a C&R licensee; it does not have to go through a Class 3 dealer.

4. C&R is not "antique". They are different terms and addressed differently in the law. An antique is defined by law as a gun made before 1 Jan 1899. That also applies to an individual gun, not a model. For example, some Winchester Model 94s are antiques; most are not, but some are C&R items.

Jim

[hstout1143]

I have reached Curio/Relic status.

[Deputy Dawg]

Yea me too.

[Zane71464]

Originally Posted by Remington 51

Below is a cut/paste from the ATF brochure on C and R requirements:

What is a firearm curio or relic?

Firearm curios or relics include firearms which have special value to collectors because they possess some qualities not
ordinarily associated with firearms intended for sporting use or as offensive or defensive weapons. To be recognized as
curios or relics, firearms must fall within one of the following categories:

1) Have been manufactured at least 50 years prior to the current date, but not including replicas thereof; or
2) Be certified by the curator of a municipal, State, or Federal museum which exhibits firearms to be curios
or relics of museum interest; or
3) Derive a substantial part of their monetary value from the fact that they are novel, rare, bizarre, or from
the fact of their association with some historical figure, period, or event.

[27 CFR 478.11]

Does this mean that ANY firearm over 50 years old automatically gets C and R status on that account alone?

Or does it mean that any firearm over 50 years old is subject to being designated by the ATF as a C and R?

In other words, do I need to see a specific ATF listing for any specific firearm (by model number) to know that it indeed is a C and R firearm?

Originally Posted by Jim K

Some comments:

1. The 50 year rule means 50 years from the current date, whatever that is. It applies to an individual gun, based on its date of manufacture in its current condition. It does not apply to the model date or the date of introduction of the model.

2. If a gun was altered in such a way to change its configuration, the 50 year date starts over at the time it was altered. A Mauser rifle made in 1940 is a C&R; but if it was "sporterized" in 1990, it won't become a C&R again until 2040.

3. Being a C&R does NOT remove a firearm from the purview of the NFA. A WWII STEN gun, for example, is a C&R, but still is a machinegun subject to NFA rules. As a C&R, it can, however, be shipped interstate to a C&R licensee; it does not have to go through a Class 3 dealer.

4. C&R is not "antique". They are different terms and addressed differently in the law. An antique is defined by law as a gun made before 1 Jan 1899. That also applies to an individual gun, not a model. For example, some Winchester Model 94s are antiques; most are not, but some are C&R items.

Jim

Very interesting and clears up alot with antique.

[Jim K]

At the risk of inducing terminal boredom, one more point. The term C&R really means absolutely nothing except to persons holding an 03 Federal Firearms License (Collector of Curios and Relics).

For anyone else, the term has no practical meaning; buying, selling, transferring, and shipping of a C&R item is the same as for any other firearm of that type. I have heard non-licensees say that they didn't have to fill out a 4473 or go through the police handgun check because "that gun is a C&R". Not the case, of course. In fact, some states don't recognize the 03 FFL at all and the holder is treated like any non-licensee.

Jim