Tips When Stopped By Police While Armed

[jack404]

Masaad Ayoob, guns expert for over 30 years, explains some tips.


http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=eef_1339992165

[carver]

Good advice, even if I don't like Tom Gresham. His dad was a good deal smarter than he is. I was taught to get out of the car, keeping your hands in plain sight, and move to the rear of the car. I have only been told once to stay in the car.

[Iron Eagle]

In Shreveport, Louisiana, to let an officer know that you are in possesion of a firearm is to lose possesion of it immediately, possibly indefininantly.

[Hammerslagger]

Actually the video, at the link in post #1, is not good advice and it "will not fly" in Michigan (did not "fly" in Ohio about a year ago, as is evidenced by the video link below) and likely will not fly in some other states that require disclosure of being armed when stopped by police.

In Michigan an armed CPL (aka CCW) holder must IMMEDIATELY disclose the fact that he/she is armed when "stopped" by the police while driving a motor vehicle or doing anything else. This disclosure needs to be the first words out of your mouth to the police officer, or you can be ticketed and loose your CCW license! Unless you cannot speak, merely handing your CPL (CCW) to the officer is obviously not an immediate disclosure, and can get your license suspended for a first offense, and you fined.

In Michigan (where I have both experiences and expertise) the best practice is to tell the officer as quickly as possible, after being stopped, that you are a CPL (CCW) holder; and as "required by law" you are advising him/her that you are (or are not) armed. {In MI a CPL holder has no obligation to disclose if you are not armed; but in a traffic stop the officer's onboard computer will tell him/her, from your license plate number, that you have a CPL (CCW), and he/she will be expecting an immediate verbal disclosure that you are armed when he/she walks up to your car.} Also, in MI if you are an armed CPL (CCW) holder, and simply approached by a police officer; and are not sure if it is a "stop" or he/she is trying to have a consensual conversation with you, you are wise to disclose. If you choose not to immediately disclose and the officer (as some do) considers all police initiated civilian contacts as "stops" you can be in trouble if he/she demands you ID.

Here is a link to a news article and a 17 minute Canton, OH police car dash cam video with audio. I had some involvement with this case in 2011 and personally spoke with the female prosecutor who handled this case for the City of Canton, OH, before it went to trial. I suggested that the smart thing to do would be to make a "drop all charges deal" with the CCW holder in return for him agreeing not to sue the city. She chose to prosecute a clearly innocent man, anyway; and the judge rightfully dismissed the charge of "non disclosure" as the trail opened. The citizen was convicted of illegally stopping in a roadway, which likely makes him prevailing in a lawsuit against the city, almost impossible.


http://www.rawstory.com/rawreplay/20...eapons-permit/

This was the third similar incident for this obviously mentally unfit police officer who was finally terminated even though his union and some fellow officers fought for him aggressively.

[twobit]

In Texas the law dictates that you must notify if you are armed at the time, and must present your CHL. The officer's check on your license will tell him this automatically so tell him and don't try and hide it. The majority of Texas officers have no problem with CHL citizens. It is usually a good thing in their eyes, so don't try and hide it. It is a plus to you that if you happen to be stopped and are not armed at the time, go ahead and show them your CHL upon initial contact and advise that you don't have a weapon with you. They will already know about your CHL and will ask anyway.
__________

Most big city areas, if you begin to get out of your car you will be quickly told to get back in your car. Let me explain some of the officer's reasonings for wanting someone to stay in their car.

1. At first the officer has no clue whether your are a good guy who just made a minor traffic violation, or are a terrible criminal he has stumbled upon intent on taking the officer's life. He has to be ready for the worse, yet not draw down on every person he stops.
2. Officer has to contact dispatch as to where he is and also get out of his car. Doesn't want someone walking toward him at that time. His dispatcher or computer terminal is sending him information from the your license plate number he has given. He may sit in his car for a moment waiting for these returns before he exits and approaches your car. Give him a chance to be informed that your car is not wanted. The more good information he has about you, the smoother the stop will be. Also don't be on your cell phone when the officer approaches. For all he knows, you could be a drug courier calling back to another vehicle for help.
3. Person stopped is less mobile when they are seated. Less capable of doing bad things to officer. Officers never wants multiple people to exit the car! Officers watch your hands. Please keep your hands where he can see them, preferably on the steering wheel. At night turn on interior lights and lower any dark windows. Officers watch all movement inside the car as they stop and then as they approach. Bending over out of sight while reaching to open the glove box to retrieve your insurance card looks very alarming from the officer's viewpoint of seeing you do this through the rear window.
4. Persons rapidly exiting their car and coming back to the officer's car may indicate there is something in the car the person does not want the officer to see or smell.
5. You are safer in your car from other traffic than you are standing besides it.

For a moment, think about what type of actions or body movements would alarm you if were an officer who just stopped a total stranger. It is all about the safety of everyone involved, the driver and the officer.

To confuse this whole discussion; in a rural setting, persons often get out their cars and the rural officers accept this more and some even expect it as the norm. Just be aware that the officer is watching your hands. Think twice about reaching quickly behind your back to your back pocket to get your wallet out. THINK.. that is exactly the same movement to draw a pistol from the small of your back.

Please remember that every officer should be as courteous and respectful to all persons he encounter as he can, while always keeping himself in a position that he can defend himself with deadly force in the blink of an eye if needed. On a traffic stop the officer is using his eyes, ears, and even his nose to rapidly gather information and decide whether the environment is safe or dangerous. Don't do things to confuse or overload that process.

Thanks for listening. From a Texas LEO of 25 years on the job.

[Iron Eagle]

Twobit, that was excellent! There have been more shootings because of people being angry at being stopped. People should always look at the situation through the officers eyes, and act accordingly. No fast movements, no mouthiness, no attitudes, just compliance. When I have been stopped, I get my license and registration in my hands, and put both of them on the top of the steering wheel.
Some years back an idiot with an attitude problem was pulled over, and made a fatal mistake. After exiting the car, he pointed his cell phone at the police. STUPID. They had a split second to make the decision, and he lost. In reality, all people should have to participate in the shoot/ don't shoot training. It would stop much of the problems. I went through it going into Nuclear Security.

[herohog]

Originally Posted by Iron Eagle

In Shreveport, Louisiana, to let an officer know that you are in possesion of a firearm is to lose possesion of it immediately, possibly indefininantly.

I beg to dissagree. While you may run into the occosional "bad egg" I have found the local officers to be quite even handed in my dealings with them. Attitude is everything. Treat them as you want to be treated. If YOU have an attitude, you WILL have a bad day.

[Double D]

While this is a widely debated subject, I am on the side of common sense. I believe the cops have a job to do, BUT, I also believe that I have rights. I have lived my entire life free of any felonys and have passed an extensive FBI background check and have been licensed to carry a gun for nearly 30 years and have done so on a daily basis for that length of time. Running my tag number in the state of florida will tell any cop that I have a concealed permit and he will know that BEFORE he approaches my vehicle. With all that being said, I have taught concealed classes and have always taught students to announce to the cops that they are carrying, out of respect for the job they do. But in reality, I dont think its any of their business what I am carrying and I shouldnt have to tell them anything. I am completely and totally legal to carry just like they are and I dont ask them to show me what they have.

[22WRF]

In Alabama there is no duty to inform law enforcement when you are carrying a concealed weapon in the State of Alabama.
“General legal advice in Alabama is that you should inform the officer only if the traffic stop or other engagement with an officer proceeds beyond something routine.”

[Alpo]

Originally Posted by Double D

While this is a widely debated subject, I am on the side of common sense. I believe the cops have a job to do, BUT, I also believe that I have rights. I have lived my entire life free of any felonys and have passed an extensive FBI background check and have been licensed to carry a gun for nearly 30 years and have done so on a daily basis for that length of time. Running my tag number in the state of florida will tell any cop that I have a concealed permit and he will know that BEFORE he approaches my vehicle. With all that being said, I have taught concealed classes and have always taught students to announce to the cops that they are carrying, out of respect for the job they do. But in reality, I dont think its any of their business what I am carrying and I shouldnt have to tell them anything. I am completely and totally legal to carry just like they are and I dont ask them to show me what they have.

Not according to the cops I've asked. They say it has never shown up, and as many permit holders are there are, it just don't seem reasonable that they have never pulled one.

[soundguy]

something sounds odd there.

I've had about 5 non-ticket traffic stops in the last 5 - 6 years. at least half of them asked me if I was carrying my weapon even before I had dug out my dl and cwp.

I'm in florida as well.

perhaps you are seeing a difference on a call in of a tag IE.. verbal call in vs a cop setting in a car pulling you up on a laptop and seeing the entire file.

as far as info goes. i'm fine with the info coming up on my dl.. i also hand my cwp over with my license.

In fact. i've not recieved a traffic ticket SINCE i got my cwp, but did get a few tickets before.. about every couple years I'll get a stop...

[carver]

Originally Posted by herohog

I beg to dissagree. While you may run into the occosional "bad egg" I have found the local officers to be quite even handed in my dealings with them. Attitude is everything. Treat them as you want to be treated. If YOU have an attitude, you WILL have a bad day.

Herohog, this is what Iron Eagle was refering to:

http://www.shreveporttimes.com/artic...l-civil-rights

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aa_G5NvfyVU

[RunningOnMT]

Originally Posted by Hammerslagger

Actually the video, at the link in post #1, is not good advice and it "will not fly" in Michigan (did not "fly" in Ohio about a year ago, as is evidenced by the video link below) and likely will not fly in some other states that require disclosure of being armed when stopped by police.

In Michigan an armed CPL (aka CCW) holder must IMMEDIATELY disclose the fact that he/she is armed when "stopped" by the police while driving a motor vehicle or doing anything else. This disclosure needs to be the first words out of your mouth to the police officer, or you can be ticketed and loose your CCW license! Unless you cannot speak, merely handing your CPL (CCW) to the officer is obviously not an immediate disclosure, and can get your license suspended for a first offense, and you fined.

In Michigan (where I have both experiences and expertise) the best practice is to tell the officer as quickly as possible, after being stopped, that you are a CPL (CCW) holder; and as "required by law" you are advising him/her that you are (or are not) armed. {In MI a CPL holder has no obligation to disclose if you are not armed; but in a traffic stop the officer's onboard computer will tell him/her, from your license plate number, that you have a CPL (CCW), and he/she will be expecting an immediate verbal disclosure that you are armed when he/she walks up to your car.} Also, in MI if you are an armed CPL (CCW) holder, and simply approached by a police officer; and are not sure if it is a "stop" or he/she is trying to have a consensual conversation with you, you are wise to disclose. If you choose not to immediately disclose and the officer (as some do) considers all police initiated civilian contacts as "stops" you can be in trouble if he/she demands you ID.

Here is a link to a news article and a 17 minute Canton, OH police car dash cam video with audio. I had some involvement with this case in 2011 and personally spoke with the female prosecutor who handled this case for the City of Canton, OH, before it went to trial. I suggested that the smart thing to do would be to make a "drop all charges deal" with the CCW holder in return for him agreeing not to sue the city. She chose to prosecute a clearly innocent man, anyway; and the judge rightfully dismissed the charge of "non disclosure" as the trail opened. The citizen was convicted of illegally stopping in a roadway, which likely makes him prevailing in a lawsuit against the city, almost impossible.


http://www.rawstory.com/rawreplay/20...eapons-permit/

This was the third similar incident for this obviously mentally unfit police officer who was finally terminated even though his union and some fellow officers fought for him aggressively.

While that incident did bring out the fact that the Canton Ohio PD did have a lunatic in their employ, I blame the initial miscommunication on the permit holder. He had ample time to notify the officer who was searching his back seat that he had a permit and was armed. If the guy was too unsure and timid to speak up and let his status be known, do you think he is competent enough to know under what circumstances he should use a firearm?

Fortunately the guy got off and the idiot cop was fired, but under Ohio law at the time he was required to inform the officer that he had a permit and he was armed. In my opinion he did not communicate that fact clearly enough.

The law has now been changed and we are no longer required to notify law enforcement that we are carrying when stopped. It does show up when they run your plates though. For me personally I intend to notify the officer if stopped, even though not required by law. Cops have to interact with good people and bad people everyday, and they have no way of knowing which is which. Anything I can do to make their job easier, I will do.

[Double D]

Originally Posted by Alpo

Not according to the cops I've asked. They say it has never shown up, and as many permit holders are there are, it just don't seem reasonable that they have never pulled one.

I go to church with a cop buddy of mine that claims different. I guess its still up for debate.

[jedwil]

Originally Posted by carver

Herohog, this is what Iron Eagle was refering to:

http://www.shreveporttimes.com/artic...l-civil-rights

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aa_G5NvfyVU

Whatever happened to the Shreveport mayor and cop??

[herohog]

Well aware of that but things have changed around here, in general. Sure there are a few cops that feel they "make"/ARE "the law" but MOST of them are good men and women and WILL give you a fair shake if you don't act a fool.

[jbrescue]

Originally Posted by RunningOnMT

The law has now been changed and we are no longer required to notify law enforcement that we are carrying when stopped. It does show up when they run your plates though. For me personally I intend to notify the officer if stopped, even though not required by law. Cops have to interact with good people and bad people everyday, and they have no way of knowing which is which. Anything I can do to make their job easier, I will do.

When did this change happen? I took my class in February from a cop and was told us we still had to notifiy.

[Hammerslagger]

Relative to post #13:

I respectfully disagree that the driver could have prudently acted any differently. Apparently the judge saw it the same way.

Watch the video. As soon as the Canton police stopped to investigate the vehicle, that was stopped on the side of the road, they ordered every one to "stay put". Then they proceeded to extract the passenger from the vehicle, repeatedly threaten him, and make a "long list" of violations of his and the driver's Fourth Amendment rights. By any standards that one may wish to apply, based on numerous court decisions, the police have no right to stop, detain or search you without a reasonably articulable (explainable in court) reason to believe (not just suspect) that you have committed a crime or are committing a crime. THAT'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE USA AND CHINA; OR NAZI GERMANY OR THE FORMER CCCP.

The facts of life in dealing with aggressive police, like this officer, in areas like where this stop was made, is "stay put" means that YOU DO NOT MOVE, AND YOU DO NOT SPEAK, UNLESS SPOKEN TO; unless you want your "donkey kicked" and some time in a jail cell on trumped up charges. Such is increasingly the way things are in the USA.

The female prosecutor alleged to me that the woman on the side of the road (that the men in the car were talking to) was a known prostitute in a known high prostitution area. The prosecutor is likely correct. The driver was convicted of illegally stopping. He is lucky that there was a video/audio camera taping this incident or he likely might have been murdered.

Think about it.

[Iron Eagle]

Originally Posted by herohog

I beg to dissagree. While you may run into the occosional "bad egg" I have found the local officers to be quite even handed in my dealings with them. Attitude is everything. Treat them as you want to be treated. If YOU have an attitude, you WILL have a bad day.

Hero, my post was not based on a personal experience, just something that I had read a while back. I had heard that a man had lost his to the police, and had been trying to get it back. I have not had any dealings with them. I know some of the Desoto parish guys. I have three friends on the force. Good guys!

[goofy]

Originally Posted by Double D

I go to church with a cop buddy of mine that claims different. I guess its still up for debate.

Now before I start let me say YOU ARE NOT WRONG.
BUT
Here in the boonies only the state police have computers in the car that are set up to get any of your info. like if you have a permit.So when a local or deputy pulls you over they do not know.And I have been told by a state officer that there are dead zones that the computer does not work.They have to rely on the station for info. after calling it in before(or after) pulling you over.
So I have been told to hand my permit with my lic. keep both hands from moving around.And tell the LEO that the gun is on my person.
When I have had contact with a LEO (ether stopped or safety check)I tell them and have been thanked for doing so.
So far the only other question I have been asked is witch gun(I have a few on my permit) and ware it is.
I guess it has to do with how up to date your LEO's dept. are and if that info. is
available to them.
Mike

[RunningOnMT]

Originally Posted by jbrescue

When did this change happen? I took my class in February from a cop and was told us we still had to notifiy.

I'm sorry jb...apparently I was in error on this. There is of course legislation pending (HB 422) but it is still in committee. I could swear I heard about a month or so ago that Gov Kasich signed it into law. It must have been a different law. Once again my apologies for the bum scoop...or BS..or however you want to term it.

I need to keep quiet about legal matters before I get someone thrown in jail.

[jbrescue]

That's the funniest thing I have ever heard. I thought you said the Kasich did something that made sense. LOL

[RunningOnMT]

Hammerslagger I understand your point about the violations of constitutional rights during this stop, but whether or not police conduct was improper has no effect IMO on the CCW permit holders obligation to inform.

During the other officers search of the back seat, before Attila the cop went on his rampage, the guy could have spoken up and said "Officer for your protection I have to inform you that I have a permit to conceal and carry a firearm and am currently armed. What would you like me to do?" Instead this guy waited until the crazy cop approached, then responded to some of the cops questions without assuring the cop knew he was armed.

I'm not justifying police conduct here, just stating that I don't think the guy handled the situation properly under current state law.

[RunningOnMT]

Originally Posted by jbrescue

That's the funniest thing I have ever heard. I thought you said the Kasich did something that made sense. LOL

[Alpo]

Just about every "authority" on police stops all agree on one thing. The cop is in charge.

If the cop says, "Stand" you stand. If he says, "Sit", you sit. If he says "Get out of the vehicle", you get out. And if you say, "Officer", and the cop says, "SHUT UP", you shut up. If you try to speak to him a second time and he says, "KEEP YOUR DAMN MOUTH SHUT!", you shut up. I don't see where the guy did anything wrong.

But, boy. Am I glad I don't live in a state with stupid laws like that.