Stupid Noobs!

[Del Slo]

I have been reloading for several months now. Its very stress relieving... My question is this. I have a 30/06 that Reload with about 50gr of H380 with a 150gr bullet. My girlfriend say it kicks too hard.

What would be a good grain load for her to shoot at paper targets at short distances? 50-100 yds max... I'm thinking about 25-35 grains... I don't see it being dangerous with a light load but any advice would be great.

Has anyone done this before?
Does anyone see any issues this may cause?

[243winxb]

Hodgdon Youth Loads will work with H4895. I would not load H380 below the posted starting load data. Also look at Trail Boss. Both listed under "Data" http://www.hodgdon.com/

[Alpo]

Hodgdon's website says 53.0 is minimum with that powder and bullet weight. I surely would not drop down to 25 to 35. That just seems too much of a drop outside data.

If my girlfriend complained about the kick of my ought six, first thing I'd do is get her a PAST recoil pad.

http://www.battenfeldtechnologies.co...d-Ambidextrous

I have one. Tames the recoil of a 375 H&H.

Then I would look into reloading cast bullets for the ought six. You can get 150 grain lead bullets and data pushing them in the 1400 fps (or thereabouts) range, which should be MUCH easier on the shoulder.

You would need a different powder, though.

[Crawdaddy]

243 hit the nail on the head. My kids shot my 30-06 using the h4895 youth loads with no problems whatsoever. As a bonus, I found myself using the powder for other applications, its a very consistent burning powder, which is why you can load down with it so easily.

[soundguy]

Originally Posted by Del Slo

I have been reloading for several months now. Its very stress relieving... My question is this. I have a 30/06 that Reload with about 50gr of H380 with a 150gr bullet. My girlfriend say it kicks too hard.

What would be a good grain load for her to shoot at paper targets at short distances? 50-100 yds max... I'm thinking about 25-35 grains... I don't see it being dangerous with a light load but any advice would be great.

Has anyone done this before?
Does anyone see any issues this may cause?

i've heard loading too low can be just as bad as too high.

ditto on the recoil pad. I'm teaching my best buds 15yr old daughter to shoot. we shoot 30-06 .. she is using a savage 110 and me a rem 700. shooting 100yd paper targets.. using 150 and 180gr projectiles.. I'm currently shooting 180gr flat base spire point with 47.5gr of imr 4064.. I got the girl a good shoulder pad that slips on and buckles around the chest. it's similar to a pad I have. heavy flat foam.. leather face.. and then strapping to adjust fit. works like a charm. I'm a smaller frame 130# 5'4 guy and she's a lill taller than me and maybee a pound or two heavier .. and she handles either 30-06 fine all day at the range with that pad in place.

[steve4102]

As stated above, do not go below minimum. It is a minimum and it is there for a reason. If you want light loads use a powder designed to work with below Min. charges. I would start with H-4895. H not IMR.
Here is a link to Hodgdon's youth loads using H-4895.

http://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/H4895%20R...le%20Loads.pdf

[Bindernut]

Yup, as already posted, don't go below published minimums. It can be just as dangerous as exceeding the max charge due to a phenomenon called detonation.
Lots of airspace in the case along with a too-light charge will cause high pressure level too.
I don't know the exact physics of powder detonation (and I"m not about to experiment with it either ), but I tend to think of it like an almost empty gas tank in a car that's on fire. It's more apt to explode violently than a burning car with a full tank of gas.

H4895 is a good powder for lighter loads in the '06.

If this is just for range sessions, I'd maybe try some light loads with 100/110gr bullets or even 125/130gr. Sure, the point of impact will be different than your current 150gr load but if it helps your GF beat the recoil, she'll be less likely to pick up a nasty flinch or just plain give up after thinking "this is no fun".
A flinch can be pretty hard to shake once you've got it.

[Del Slo]

I didn't think about less powder in the cart is equal to less fuel in the tank.

I'm a car nut so maybe I could explain...

More fuel and less oxygen equals cooler explosion temps but longer burn time
equal parts fuel and oxygen equals "good" temps with "good" burn time
less fuel and more oxygen equals HOT explosion temps with quick burn time

More fuel is bad because the casing cant hold the pressure without cracking
less fuel is just as bad for the same reason. The expolsion is violent and hotter than normal. (Think running lean on gas in your car) Higher temps equal higher pressure. Higher pressure equals the cracking of your casing and possibly your face, fingers, neighbor, or worse your girlfriend getting hurt...

[ozo]

Just buy her a gun she likes......

[cpttango30]

WOOOOO HOLD UP.

Using a load that is too light can cause crazy things to happen. Too much air space in a cartridge will give too much o2 to the fire with it starts and cause the pressure to spike very fast and erratically. This could fire find for 1 to 100 rounds or it could go BOOM and blow your gals face into your lap. Try 110gr Varmint bullets from Hornady, Speer, Sierra ect.... OR look for some light 125gr loads or the youth loads like others have talked about.

If you want to use different powders and what not There are computer programs for this. I have also head of guys using pistol powder and filling the rest of the case with cream of wheat or grits to keep the powder all at the back near the fire starter.

I am not telling you to go and try this. It takes a steady hand and experience.

Also if she doesn't shoot that much look at buying some reduced recoil Remington Factory loads.

I would try a load of 57gr of Varget with a 110gr Hornady bullet.

Recoil has more to do with bullet weight than how much powder you use.

[langenc]

Youth loads or Trailboss. Grand daughter shot an elk w/ 300 WSM and H4895-downloaded to about 75% as per Hodgdons info as noted above.

Better yet buy her a 243. Do NOT let her shoot big booming loads. She will start flinching and probably never get rid of em, the flinches.

[Bindernut]

Originally Posted by Del Slo

I didn't think about less powder in the cart is equal to less fuel in the tank.

I'm a car nut so maybe I could explain...

More fuel and less oxygen equals cooler explosion temps but longer burn time
equal parts fuel and oxygen equals "good" temps with "good" burn time
less fuel and more oxygen equals HOT explosion temps with quick burn time

More fuel is bad because the casing cant hold the pressure without cracking
less fuel is just as bad for the same reason. The expolsion is violent and hotter than normal. (Think running lean on gas in your car) Higher temps equal higher pressure. Higher pressure equals the cracking of your casing and possibly your face, fingers, neighbor, or worse your girlfriend getting hurt...

Kinda sidetracking from the light load detonation phenomenon...but I think you're talking about inside the engine, not in a burning fuel tank.
In a fuel tank, the increased airspace gives more room for the fuel to vaporize, or mix with an oxidizing agent. (vaporized gasoline is the stuff that causes the violent explosion).
We've fought fires in quite a few vehicles and farm equipment here at our local volunteer FD and the ones that have a nearly empty tank are more dangerous to work with...although neither one is a cakewalk. A nearly empty tank will explode rather violently where a full one doesn't have as much airspace for vapor to collect. They will pop too, but not with as much force...the danger then is all of the liquid fuel that it pukes out when the tank does rupture.
The same goes for welding on a flammable liquid fuel container (gas tank). Never weld on one with it empty...even if it's been sitting bone dry for several years. Always fill it with water, CO2, or some other inert medium before welding on one so there is no oxygen available to mix with the fuel.

This is how an excessively light powder charge reacts. If your cartridge case has too much airspace, there is a lot more oxidizing agent inside the case than in a normal load. This will cause an extremely violent ignition with a VERY high pressure spike.
It's the same thinking behind not allowing any airspace in a cartridge loaded with black powder...black powder ALWAYS needs to be compressed. Too much oxidizing agent with black powder equals one tremendous explosion because it is an extremely fast burn rate compared to even the fastest burning smokeless powder.

Kind of the exact opposite of having too much powder but the end result is still the same. Big boom!
Basic moral of the story is DON'T go under published minimum loads. For most powders, they are listed as a minimum safe level for a reason.

[soundguy]

get her a nice tack driver caliber with no kick.

17 hmr 22 hornet.. 218 bee 222rem etc....

[ozo]

Yeah.....
A Marlin 917
or CZ 452
or Henry H004........
i bet she would love a 17hmr....
in any of these

[Alpo]

Y'know, folks, it could very well be that the feller is having his girl shoot the ought six 'cause that's the onliest thing he's got, and he ain't got the money to buy a light-kicking hornet or 17 rimfire or whatever.

So why not quit advising him to buy another gun, and help him with "how can she shoot this one?", which is, after all, what he asked about.

[soundguy]

Originally Posted by Alpo

Y'know, folks, it could very well be that the feller is having his girl shoot the ought six 'cause that's the onliest thing he's got, and he ain't got the money to buy a light-kicking hornet or 17 rimfire or whatever.

So why not quit advising him to buy another gun, and help him with "how can she shoot this one?", which is, after all, what he asked about.

and there are VERY LIMITED ways to make a heavy kicking rifle kick less. youth loads and good pads ar ethe bulk of it. and have been mentioned..

as a good group trying to help out.. we are also offering alternate ideas in addition tot he direct answers he asked for. I know for a fact my wife or mother would NEVER, EVER be able to shoot a 30-06 more than once.. no matter what pad you had... unless it was pintle mount or some sort of recoil mount setup...

soundguy

[Del Slo]

I do have other "toys"... Mosin, 410 pump, .22 bolt action youth.

She has a Ruger 10/22 that she refuses to let me tacicool it for her. Her dad gave it to her when she was a kid... She shoots her dad's AR 223 with no problem.

She WANTS to shoot my big toys. The 30/06 and Mosin both have recoil pads. Both have bipods. I will have to look into youth powder loads with lighter bullets... I have to make my gal happy. Not many girls like shooting big guns... Thanks to all yal for the info...

BTW... Fuel tank or Engine, it's still an inclosed space with fuel vapor that goes boom... Liquid gasoline doesn't burn, only the vapor...

[soundguy]

yep, I seldom see women liking to shoot the big stuff. I'm teaching a teenager to shoot 30-06. we started her off with a beefy shoulder pad and a good but pad on the gun..

[woolleyworm]

Trailboss in 30-06 is a fantastic light recoiling load. I shot some that Josh had loaded up with cast bullets, super results at 100 yrds.

[Alpo]

This is my little girl. Notice, she ain't real big.



This is my little girl shooting a 30/06.



They can do it.

[Alpo]

There's certainly nothing wrong with trying to help someone, but one of my pet peeves is people that answer the questions not asked, and ignore the ones that are.

Back when it first got started, Cowboy Shooting did not allow gas checks. They do now, on long range side-match guns, but back then they did not at all. So this guy posts one day, "Does anyone know where I can buy gas-check bullets for 45/70?"

The first twelve responses all said the same thing. "You can't use gas checks in SASS".

Now, he hadn't said anything about using them in a match. He might have been going bear hunting with them, for all anyone on that board knew. But instead of someone saying, "Hunter Bullet Supply sells 'em", they all told him he couldn't use 'em.

Couple of years ago I was making a BOB, and had narrowed a pistol choice down to three different 22s. Trying to make up my mind, I posted on a board. Said I was making a BOB. Said I was trying to chose between these three, because I had those three. Did not want recommendations of other guns. Wanted them folks' opinions on the better of THOSE THREE.

I got two answers suggesting one of the three. Then I got about a dozen or so suggesting Glocks, suggesting 357s, suggesting 1911, suggesting Berettas.

I quoted my original post. I bolded the sentence that said "don't want recommendations of other guns". I said, "What part of that sentence did y'all not understand?"

The general consensus of the responses to that was, "Your choices were bad choices, so we were giving you other options".

Seeing this type thing many times has made my reaction almost reflexive.

[JLA]

Del Slo.. 15 gr IMR Trailboss and any 150 gr bullet in the .30-06 cartridge. I call them snail fart loads. As they are dang near sub sonic. They wont cycle the action of a semi, but will shoot well out to 100 yds or so, and even kill deer and hogs.

Other than that.. Just buy the woman a .223

Welcome to the forum. And the way you explained the fuel/air ratio relation to pressure and burn is pretty dead on. Handloading is very similar. case volumes less than 50% can detonate easily and destroy a perfectly good rifle and or face.

[soundguy]

Originally Posted by Alpo

There's certainly nothing wrong with trying to help someone, but one of my pet peeves is people that answer the questions not asked, and ignore the ones that are..

reading the replies.. it seems the questions asked, WERE answered, PLUS other alternatives given. ???

as for the pic above? i see it's a gas gun.. thus much lower recoil than a bolt.. plus if a garand.. it's shooting a milder than hunting ammo load anyway. all adds up.. Still... not everyone can do it. my mom wouldn't be able to shoot even a garand.. nor my wife...

[Del Slo]

Alpo... What are you talking about? Everyone who answered has helped in some way. I admit some answers where a bit harsh but none the less an answer.

I'm going to get her some Trailboss or Hodgdon Youth Load. This should solve her weak shoulder so she can have some fun.

BTW... It's a bolt action Winchester Model 70.

[JLA]

You will like the TB loads. Like I said. 15 gr in the oughtsix with just about any 150 grainer. Easy shootn.