I may lose what little credibility I had left....

[RunningOnMT]

but after listening to several Bible expositors, reading the Bible, and carefully listening to Barack Hussein Obama himself, I have become convinced that he is THE antichrist. Not just evil, and not just a TYPE of antichrist, but the real deal.

For that reason, and despite all of our hopes, I believe that one way or another, Obama will still be president after January 2013. I don't know if he will actually be reelected or if he will somehow suspend the elections ( I know, seems far fetched ), but I believe that it is all part of God's prophetic plan.

Don't be surprised at anything that happens from now on, the new world order is here, and calling the shots, for the time being.

I know, I know, I'm beginning to sound a lot like a former guest. Well, I don't think our former guest was really that far off, it was more his delivery that I had a problem with.

[bakerconch]

Not sure if I would go that far myself. I agree that he, Obama, is out to destroy our way of life, which as with many Americans includes a life of compassion, helping, and sharing, without being forced to do so. Obama seems to wants to kill any good in us, which is to me a form of the spirit of the antichrist which in 1 John 4:3 tells us is already in the world. But, Is he the one? I'm going to study this out.

[Iron Eagle]

If I am not mistaken the anti christ is from the middle east area.

[RunningOnMT]

Yep. And where was Barack born? That's one of the things, plus the fact that the guy is slick, he's a blatant liar, he keeps his past intentionally obscure, he's a muslim, he's trying to undermine Israels self defense capability, he's very strong willed, and everything he stands for is in opposition to Christian doctrine.

[Insulation Tim]

I've never spent much time reading the bible, but does it not refer to a time close to the end when Christians will be heavily persecuted? I see that right now in the massive uptick in Islamists.

[BlackEagle]

Well, ROMT, for what it's worth, I have thought the same things a few times. 0 wants to keep the office, and he has shown he will use any means to get his end. For him, anything goes.

[RunningOnMT]

Tim, that's for those who become saved during the tribulation. Actually the Bible says that for those who are already saved, there is no need to go through further trials and they will be caught up before the tribulation begins

[RunningOnMT]

Check out this link and I'll look for more.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcbloBA2Lek

[carver]

And just how do you get saved during the tribulation?

[hjsmith00843]

Time to stock pile all of the ammo. My family seems the think there will be a race war. I hope not but will be prepared.

[BlackEagle]

Originally Posted by Insulation Tim

I've never spent much time reading the bible, but does it not refer to a time close to the end when Christians will be heavily persecuted? I see that right now in the massive uptick in Islamists.

There is persecution of Christians world-wide. The UN's influence is massivly anti-Christian; the EU is anti-Christian in it's rulings. The US and the western world in general is pushing political correctness and humanism which is anti Christian.

Christians have been persecuted from day one. Saul, who became Paul led the first persecution. The Letters to the Seven Churches in Revelation 2-3 show the church in 60 AD under intense deadly persecution. Fox's book of Martyrs reveals persecution over a period of centuries, in which the enemies of Christ tried repeatedly to anihilate the Church. Hitler, Communist regimes, and others have all persecuted Christians relentlessly over the years.

We can't say for sure who the Anti-Christ is; I have read his description in Revelation and can see a number of people who could fit the bill; I keep my eyes and ears open and pray that God will make it plain to me and all Christians when he makes his appearance.

For me, I think, don't panic; just keep watching and listening and waiting.
Jesus said to not be afraid of the person who can kill the body, but of the one who can kill the soul. My soul will be set free to be with Christ when I die. I don't relish the idea of going through the hardship of persecution but many have gone through it before me, are going through it now, and in God's timing, may continue to go through it. I guess if my time comes God will give grace to get me through it.

Richard Wurmbrand wrote Tortured for Christ describing his tribulations under the Communists in Russia.

(Please don't go into spirit-soul symantics--We know what I mean--the part of me that was re-born when I became a Christian will be with Christ forever).

[jack404]

dont forget as much as there are persecution of Christians there are those out there who revel in this fact and who wish as much suffering to us as possible , he've seen a few by here the past few days and more dropping by daily

lefties who think they can do as they deem fit , regardless , after all we are only right wing churchy's or thats what they report back to their twitter groups

[sub-moa]

Being a Christian has never been popular because it’s not the easy road. It requires discipline and commitment. Also it requires you to witness which, it seems, few wish to listen to.
A while back at my small country church our preacher began preaching the Ten Commandments. One each Sunday, well guess what? When he got done with 6 he was told that’s enough, you need to stop now because members are getting upset. Sad thing is he gave in and stopped.
Went to a relative’s church after Christmas and all I heard was feel good, be prosperous, smile and be polite, lift others up etc. All good things but God was never mentioned. Not once. 10 minutes on tithing though.
This church was a BIG business. Three Sunday services and one was on local TV.
I suppose this is what ampaterry’s signature means.
I wouldn’t give Obama any more credit than he deserves. I think he is just another in a long list of screwed up liars that the screwed up lying left wing anti-Christian pro gay, pro abortion party bought into office. He is only a puppet and he was given an agenda by other bought and paid for liars long before he took office.
Our country’s foundation was laid on a faith and belief in GOD. The first mistake was separating our government from that. And if lefties don’t like that then THEY should do the leav’in.

[raven818]

I am SO HAPPY somebody actually went there. I have talked to my wife twice about it. The first time was prior to his election. Anybody who could not visualize him as the next POTUS, was asleep. He reached into my Id, that spooked me a bit. My wife, bless her, nodded and kept on reading.

The second time was during one of his many speeches, somewhere out of the US. She doesn't not have an opinion, at least shes kind enough to say that.

I've thought about the possibility many times. I decided not to go there at TFF. I thank you for bringing it up. All we'll get is opinions because nobody knows.

At the minimum, I now know, I am not alone.

[Bobitis]

I'm not well versed in the Bible, but as I recall, the anti-Christ is supposed to have suffered a mortal head wound?

We can go on about the number of horns and what they represent, but that's all interpretation. What about the head wound?

Who fits the bill?

Obie's got a few scratches, but so do countless others. I myself know many including myself.

[ampaterry]

Originally Posted by carver

And just how do you get saved during the tribulation?

The same way you get saved before the tribulation, carver.
The door of salvation is open right up to the moment of death.

[ampaterry]

I have no problem with such speculation.
Heck, SOMEONE has to be the beast, and no real reason it could not be Obama.

I have a problem when someone claims to KNOW, POSITIVELY, who the beast is, and calls anyone who disagrees an idiot because they don't see it.

OK - two things.

Bobitis asked about the 'deadly wound that was healed', and he is right; that is needed.

Then there is the number of the beast, not triple sixes but six hundred sixty six. that is needed too.

[carver]

The peroid of grace ends when Christ comes and removes his Church, the "saved". At the "rapture". If there is no more grace then you can't be saved by grace. The only salvation for those in the tribulation will be to endure untill the end. The end would be the end of your life, as you stand for Christ, or the end of the tribulation.
Matthew 24:
8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

[ampaterry]

I believe we are in agreement, Carver - just a bit of semantical difference.

From my POV, there is NONE righteous and the ONLY way to salvation is by grace - before, during, or after the Great Tribulation.

[carver]

From the above statement you must believe that King David is saved also, is that correct?

[Old Grump]

Just dos centavos from an old dinosaur but Anti-Christ will be a puppet master not a puppet. Obama is a light weight and in no way is the anti-Christ.

[tcox4freedom]

Let's remember there is a "serpent" that comes before the "first" beast. (The "beast" from the sea.)

Then there is a "SECOND" beast that performs many signs, wonders & miracles to lead millions of people astray. (The beast from the land)

I personally think this "second" beast could be the "progressive" church that is seemingly gaining in power here in the USA.

The second beast seems to be more powerful than the first; yet it forces people to worship the "first". It is this "second" beast that forces the "MARK" upon people.

My question is could the second beast be "progressive" (FALSE) christian churches; backed & empowered by the US government & NATO military forces?

As to Obama being the anti-Christ?

I'm not going that far yet. However, I am leaning to the possibility of him being the "serpent" who will usher in the anti-Christ.

-

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[gvw3]

Originally Posted by Old Grump

Just dos centavos from an old dinosaur but Anti-Christ will be a puppet master not a puppet. Obama is a light weight and in no way is the anti-Christ.

I tend to think this is correct.

[RunningOnMT]

Despite his sinfulness, David absolutely did love the LORD, sincerely repented, and I believe absolutely received salvation. Are we to believe that all the patriarchs and prophets of the old testament weren't saved because Christ had not yet come?

Those who believed and had faith in God and His covenants, believed in the Messiah to come, and therefore believed ahead to Jesus Christ. The Psalms of David make it clear that he had an uncanny knowledge of the details in the life of Christ, that could only have been revealed by God.

[ampaterry]

Although I do not believe we are to judge who is and who is not saved - since this is the purvue of God alone - I will say that, IMHO, David is with Jesus Christ right now.

Others may say he is not.

And in the final analysis, neither my nor their opinion has any meaning whatsoever.