H110 and .357 - Is this right?

[Dutchboy]

I'm new to reloading for .357 Magnum, and I just want to take a sanity check on what I've done before I pull the trigger on some handloads that I made tonight.

.357 Magnum for a Ruger GP-100 with a 6" barrel

125gr JHP
21.0 gr of H110
CCI magnum primers (550)
A heavy crimp

That amount of powder fills the case almost to the very bottom of the bullet. I've never seen something like that before unless I was using black powder. I've double checked everything, and that's just what 21.0 grains of H110 looks like. I can't see where I've done something wrong.

I was hoping for some brothers-in-reloading to reassure me that this whole picture looks right before I go shoot these things. It sure looks strange to me to see that much powder in a case. I'm used to a few grains of Bullseye getting swallowed up in a .38 Special case.

Thanks

[TheGunClinger]

I just looked it up in my Lyman's 49th ed. and it says start 21.00gr max 22gr. If you were using Bullseye it would be 7.9 gr start to 8.4gr max according to Lee's second ed. If using Lyman's start is 6.5 max 8.6. with Bullseye.

[JohnTheCalifornian]

According to the Hodgdon Site, the load you listed is the starting load. Max is 22 Grains. Although, the site does not mention the type of primer used. Seeing as you loaded with a magnum primer, that changes things. How much? Im not sure. Most of the loads you see listed are for standard primers. Someone else may chime in and say if they are safe or not, but, in the end it is up to you to shoot them or not.


As far as filling up the case almost all the way, there is nothing wrong with that. Some loads out there are compressed loads, meaning the bullet, when seated, compresses the powder into the case.

A goal to have is to find a powder /bullet combination that fills the case, too little can cause some problems. Thats why it IS ALWAYS best to get your load data from the manfacturer, as it is always updated.

[312shooter]

According to Speer #14 you sir are a tad too heavy with a magnum primer, add your heavy crimp and you have yourself a real handful there. Hopefully you have seated the bullets accordingly and not too deep. Hope you didn't run off at the press and load a whole bunch of these.

H110 with mag primers fired from a 6" S&W Model 19:
Minimum charge 18gr
Maximum charge 20gr

[JLA]

If you have adhered to your loading data in every way, then shoot. H110/W296 are very slow burners as far as handgun powders are concerned and require the case to be filled and heavy crimps to burn right. I personally do not care much for H110 or W296 (same powder, 2 different labels) and would opt for 2400 if i needed a magnum class load, but if loaded properly they can be superb powders.

[howlnmad]

According to the Lyman 49th, you're spot on for a starting load. And yes, they call for the magnum primer as well. Fire when ready.

[muddober]

Originally Posted by howlnmad

According to the Lyman 49th, you're spot on for a starting load. And yes, they call for the magnum primer as well. Fire when ready.

100% correct and I might add that when using H110 or 296 one should always use magnum primers to insure consistent ignition. Also I would advise staying away from Bullseye or any fast burning powder because you can very easily double charge and blow up your gun. You are always better off using a powder that at least fills the case to 2/3 so you cannot double charge. Bullseye or any like powder in my opinion should never be used in any magnum case. Those type of powders were made for light accurate target loads for NRA paper shooters. Magnum cases are larger and were designed to do exactly what your are doing, lots of slow burning powder so as to get the most power out the cartridge

I might expand on JLA's comment about Alliant 2400 by stating that if you decide to down load a bit, do not lighten your H110 loading because that powder only burns consistent with full house loads and a tight crimp. 2400 is also a slow burning powder but it is more forgiving allowing you to lighten your loads a bit and it will still burn consistent. Like JLA, 2400 is one of my favorite powders. If you want to even go lighter I would suggest Unique but here again you if go too light with Unique you run the risk of double charging.

Ron

[LDBennett]

If it is Magnum load levels you seek then 2400, H4227, H110, and W296 are excellent choices. Just follow the recipes in current reloading manuals (exactly!), starting at the starting load and working the load up to the published max load if you need to.

But for target shooting 44 special loads work fine in 44 magnum cases, in my experience and according to many published load data I have seen. Fast burning powders are meant for target shooting and work fine in the 44 mag case. Yes, there is the possibility of double or even triple charges but you have to be diligent when you reload: No distractions and watch ever process like a hawk. The safest reloaders use the 44 Special loads only in 44 Special cases (I don't even have any 44 Special cases and use the 44 Special loads in 44 Mag cases, but that's just me).

Just because a reloader can possible make a mistake in reloading is no reason to avoid powders like W231 and its exact equivalent HP38. They are very economical to use as you get up to four times the number of reloads out of a pound of powder compared to the slow burning powders like H110, W296 and even 2400. When you shoot cast or plated cast bullets with the fast burning powders, the cost of shooting can be greatly reduced. That normally means more shooting. Usually the accuracy is better too.

LDBennett

[312shooter]

Originally Posted by howlnmad

According to the Lyman 49th, you're spot on for a starting load. And yes, they call for the magnum primer as well. Fire when ready.

Yep the Lyman 49th says your OK, one note however, the Lyman data was fired with a 4" barrel, maybe not a huge difference, but speer is data is from a 6" a tad more applicable to your situation.

[Dutchboy]

Thank you, everyone. I appreciate the feedback. Looking at that case full of H110 made me nervous enough that I wanted to ask for a second opinion. Thanks for the reassurance.

Next time, I'll buy a pound of 2400 to give myself a little more flexibility.

[mikld]

No offence intended, but what does your manual say is the proper loading of H110 in the .357? Trying to reload, especially with touchy powders like H110 and W296, without a manual or three is not too bright, IMHO! Get a copy of Lyman's 49th, Lee Modern Reloading, and the manual from the manufacrurer of the bullets you are using, and use them.

And if you already have them, oops, sorry...

[Dutchboy]

No offense taken. Actually, I'm a pretty careful reloader. I might even be considered a little bit chicken.

.357 was a new caliber for me, and I had never used H110 before. So I did my homework before I went to the bench. I consulted my three reloading books (Lee, Speer, and the freebie from Hodgdon). I checked out Hodgdon's website, and surfed the net for other sources of info. Everyone was pretty consistent, except for Lee. Lee listed a max charge of something over 18 grains. The other sources warned about going this low with H110. Squibs could result. Therefore, I disregarded Lee and went with everyone else.

The reason I asked for help from the Forum, was that despite all my checking and rechecking, I was still looking at case that was filled up to bottom of the bullet with gunpowder. That made me very, very uncomfortable. Mostly, I've reloaded 38 Special with Bullseye powder. And, I knew that if I filled up a case with Bullseye, I would have a disaster on my hands.

So, I just wanted to run this whole scene past some people who have done this before. I was concerned that I might have made a huge mistake and overlooked something. (I'm very capable of making mistakes.)

And, the folks on the Forum came through for me with some great advice. Thanks!

And the best part. . . . .

I just got back from the range, and those rounds were a lot of fun! When that first one went off, I'm sure that I was wearing a big, goofy grin. It was nothing like 38 Special. One moment, I'm looking at the front sight. The next moment, all I see is a huge fireball, and I feel the concussion of the Ka'Boom. And, the rounds were accurate too. I shoved the target out to 50 yards, and I put 6 out of 6 in a paper plate, offhand and with open sights.

I think I'm hooked on this big revolver idea. I'm starting to dream about a 44 magnum now. Maybe with my tax refund next year. . . . .

By the way, I would never consider shooting this load in one of those airweight, snubby revolvers. The metal might be able to take it, but I bet it would really, really hurt.

[mikld]

Originally Posted by Dutchboy

No offense taken. Actually, I'm a pretty careful reloader. I might even be considered a little bit chicken.

.357 was a new caliber for me, and I had never used H110 before. So I did my homework before I went to the bench. I consulted my three reloading books (Lee, Speer, and the freebie from Hodgdon). I checked out Hodgdon's website, and surfed the net for other sources of info. Everyone was pretty consistent, except for Lee. Lee listed a max charge of something over 18 grains. The other sources warned about going this low with H110. Squibs could result. Therefore, I disregarded Lee and went with everyone else.

The reason I asked for help from the Forum, was that despite all my checking and rechecking, I was still looking at case that was filled up to bottom of the bullet with gunpowder. That made me very, very uncomfortable. Mostly, I've reloaded 38 Special with Bullseye powder. And, I knew that if I filled up a case with Bullseye, I would have a disaster on my hands.

So, I just wanted to run this whole scene past some people who have done this before. I was concerned that I might have made a huge mistake and overlooked something. (I'm very capable of making mistakes.)

And, the folks on the Forum came through for me with some great advice. Thanks!

And the best part. . . . .

I just got back from the range, and those rounds were a lot of fun! When that first one went off, I'm sure that I was wearing a big, goofy grin. It was nothing like 38 Special. One moment, I'm looking at the front sight. The next moment, all I see is a huge fireball, and I feel the concussion of the Ka'Boom. And, the rounds were accurate too. I shoved the target out to 50 yards, and I put 6 out of 6 in a paper plate, offhand and with open sights.

I think I'm hooked on this big revolver idea. I'm starting to dream about a 44 magnum now. Maybe with my tax refund next year. . . . .

By the way, I would never consider shooting this load in one of those airweight, snubby revolvers. The metal might be able to take it, but I bet it would really, really hurt.

My apologies, sir...

BTW, I love my "boomers"; .44 Magnums. I have 5 of them, but I save the "hot" loads for my Ruger Super Blackhawk.

[zb338]

Dutch boy,
It will take a lot more than a careful handloader like yourself to
blow up that Ruger. Go out there and have fun shooting your loads.

Zeke

[aa1911]

look at the vast difference between Hodgon's manual and the RCBS manual, I loaded some light ones yesterday behind a sierra 125gn JSP, tried 13.5gns for some light loads for the wife and that is a good start. hodgon manual says to use like 21 or 22gns, ouch... pushes it just shy of 2000fps but the RCBS manual has the velocities much lower. I blew up my glock 23 following the Hodgon manual before, took about 50rds to do it but I load at least 10% below their recommended loads...

I'm also using a GP100 (4") but also have a handful of snubbies and an sp101 that I run them thru....

as said above though, Rugers have some of the strongest revolvers out there IMO

[LDBennett]

aa1911

Looks like you going to blow up another gun!

Hodgdon 110 and Winchester 296 are the exact same powder made in the same plant in the same lots. They are the same except for the printing on the label.

They are the slowest powder that is safe to use in pistol cartridges but.... they have a problem. If down loaded below the starting loads expressed in the Hodgdon and Winchester reloading manuals then they may create pressures way beyond what the handgun can accommodate. Winchester, the original supplier of both powders, warns of this in their reloading literature and have for decades. If you like your gun and your hand and your eyes and face, or those of fellow shooters who might sue you then Stop down loading H110 or W296. There are better powders to get to lower Magnum levels than either of these two.

The most versatile powder you can buy is W231. That will get you to the lower performance end of any magnum cartridge. For slow powders that can be downloaded safely, as shown in manuals, there is 2400, or IMR4227. Then there are literally tens of middle burning rate powders, like Unique and many others, that will push you to the middle range. Only use H110 or W296 for full loads within the listed range or you, again, will get to see a blown up gun....SERIOUSLY!!! And.... use the published loads, not concocted loads you think better.

BE SAFE!

LDBennett

[aa1911]

thanks LDB!

yeah, I don't like the feeling of the blast/overpressure and watching my gun fall apart in my hand, this is my first go around with H110, couldn't find it for almost a year around here... good to know it's 296, I use that in my .410 skeet loads already...

they are light at 13.5gns, they are just on the bottom end of the recommended load but I guess I will pull the bullets and load 'em up just a bit to be on the safe side. I was just a bit confused at the vast difference of the recommended safe maximums in my two of my manuals which are usually close so I went with the minimum as a starting point. hmmmm...

my glock blew up using Hodgon's manual which I've used for pistol for the last 12 years or so without issue. they were hollow pt defense loads that were loaded near maximum and had fired a few mags but luckily it just blew the extractor into the neighboring county and had case separation. been using my RCBS manual lately...

thanks again LDB

[JLA]

H110/W296 will detonate if downloaded. Its ironic how the slowest listed powder can become the fastest if too little is used.

[Popgunner]

I've read that compressing powder up to 6% is Ok.
Stay safe & follow the book that shows the particular bullet, case & primer & pay attention to seating depth. Ball powders are finicky as to the pressures they'll burn well at. As in this case the start load & max loads are only a grain appart.

[LDBennett]

Yes H110/W296 are finicky and they must be loaded in that very narrow range. But I have found that other ball powders used in rifle cartridges have normal ranges of loading options and are not any more finicky than any other powders.

In the case of H110 and W296, I wonder if it is not the big load of nitroglycerin they carry to get such phenomenal performance that is the detonation problem when too little is used ?? I don't think it is the fact that they are ball powders. For example, W231, I believe a smashed ball powder, loads over a huge range for any given cartridge with absolutely no problems. Ball powder is not bad nor is H110 and W296. You just have to use all powder per the reloading manuals. Ball powders meter very much better than any extruded powders that use large grain size. The new Hodgdon short cut extruded powders are the exception as they do meter well.

There is nothing wrong with ball powders. The problems of old have been solved in modern versions. They have been made for over 60 years now and some get into military cartridges too. There is no reason to shun them, in my opinion.

LDBennett

[aa1911]

yeah, did some more looking around and I literally picked the worse powder to try and down load... this is my first experience using H110... and it IS a different powder than 296, very similar, but technically different. Manufacturer says to never drop below 10% of posted loads but in H110's case it says to stay within 3%, someone mentioned it on here already I think also...

my 13.5gns of H110 would be perfect for a 180gn bullet but not the little 125.... I have always been a fan of Longshot for full power loads, love that stuff and have been using TiteGroup for years now for both practice and full power defense loads in .40, .45ACP and .357.

I grew up with IMR powders and have since used almost all Hodgon's stuff but still have some familiarization to do... Thanks again LDB

[LDBennett]

aa1911:

In the last year or so Hodgdon bought the rights to distribute all the Winchester and IMR powders. At that point in time they made the reloading recipes for W296 and H110 exactly the same. In the past each had its own loading data but were made on the same line in the old Winchester powder company. Winchester made H110 for Hodgdon using the W296 powder.

The bottom line is W296 and H110 are exactly the same powder made in the same plant on the same line. All recent data from Hodgdon uses exactly the same loads whether it is one or the other.

There are other equivalents, like W231 and HP38.

As an aside, Hodgdon has never made it own powders. They just distributed powders made by others whose facilities were around the world. All their smokeless powders are made by others.

The bottom line is that H110 IS W296.

LDBennett

[aa1911]

close enough for me anyway... I've used 296 for my .410's for skeet with good results although I've been experimenting with home-rolled brass .410 shells in which case good old Herco wins so far...

kinda like chevy/gmc... ford/mazda.... honda/accura... same thing! different sticker

[TheGunClinger]

I use H-110 in all my .44 loads and in all my .50 A&E's. In my Lee 2nd. Ed. I can find no load data for .357 mag 125 jhp's using H-110. It does show some?? data for Win 296 but doesnt give a start load, only never exceed 18.5 gr compressed. Way too tight a tolerance for me.

[LDBennett]

You can use H110 and W296 loads interchangeably if you use Hodgdon's latest data. They are and always have been the same powder.

But they do not like to be down loaded. Winchester always had footnotes in their reloading data expressing that. Hodgdon data now shows starting loads that are about 10% lower than maximum. I would not deviate from those recommendation and use only the Hodgdon data.

LDBennett