? on bras vs steel vs aluminum - The Firearms Forum

soundguy · 07-12-2012, 06:43 PM

ok.. been reading up..

I know aluminum basically can't be relaoded due to thin / cracking issues at the mouth.. etc.

what about steel. what's the deal. not easy enough to work on dies? totally unreloadable?

and reading up on the metalurgy of brass.. and well.. exercising some common sense. i see it is less abrasive to the chanber wall.

with that.. how about them steel cases. damaging the chamber?

thanks

Alpo · 07-12-2012, 07:27 PM

Steel can be hardened or softened as much or as little as you want, depending on alloy and heat treatment, so I don't really see a problem with it "wearing out" the chamber.

Mostly (actually, far as I know, ALL) it is berdan primed, so is, for all practical purposes, non-reloadable. I don't like "non-reloadable". If offends my cheap Scots soul.

When CCI came out with aluminum cases, they decided it was not safe to reload, so they primed it with a berdan primer that was a funky size. You could not get primers to fit the pocket, so it could not be reloaded.

Aluminum does not slide against steel the same way brass does. It is slightly "stickier". I do not trust aluminum cases in an autoloader. Too good a chance of a failure to feed. They are probably fine in a revolver, but again, cannot be reloaded.

I've got two boxes of Blazer 45 Colt that was given to me, about 15 years ago. If push come to shove, I'd shoot 'em, but as long as I've got brass, they sit on the shelf.

soundguy · 07-12-2012, 07:49 PM

hmm.. I've never looked in steel cases.. didn't realize they were berdan primed.

but that alone can't be the only reason people don't relaod them. I've seen berdan primers for sale, and I've seen at least 2 ways to deprime berdan.. a water press, and the lil plier thingys that rip em out.. etc...

so are they simply to hard (difficult) to rework?

Alpo · 07-12-2012, 09:47 PM

Steel is harder to work with than brass. It is not as springy. Berden primers are hard to find. Yes, while it's a pain in the ass to deprime 'em, it can be done, but once done, whatcha gonna prime 'em with?

joncutt87 · 07-12-2012, 10:29 PM

Tulammo .45 rounds are boxer primed

LDBennett · 07-13-2012, 07:24 AM

One of the "features" of the metal brass is that it is very malleable. It can be worked and worked and not fail. Steel is not so malleable by comparison. You can get it to work once as a cartridges case but it may work hardened and not work so great the second time.

The cartridge case is really a gasket to hold by handgun pressure up to maybe 40,000 psi. The case walls have to stretch to seal the chamber and return to allow easy extraction. Brass does that easily, multiple times, and allows cartridge cases to be reloaded. Steel does not. Aluminum has the same problem as steel. Neither should be reloaded. A lot of brass (purchases of 100 or more cases) for handguns is not all that expensive and it will last for many reloads. I have brass bought in the 1980's that I still reload today. It eventually gets neck splits and get recycled (brass has good value for re-cycling...Don't just throw it away!)

LDBennett

Clipper · 07-13-2012, 08:07 AM

One of my chums reloads aluminum on a regular basis, usually only once, and I did load a couple of steel cases just to see how it would work. Not a good idea mainly because I have so much brass!

carver · 07-13-2012, 08:34 AM

Steel, and aluminum, cases can be reloaded, but only a time, or two. As mentioned in the above posts, they do not do as good a job of expanding to fill the chamber, and then shrinking back to be easily extracted. The main reason I don't try to reload them is that they are very hard on your reloading dies. They scratch, and cut, the dies badly. Almost all of the cheap ammo for the military type rounds are steel cased, so those of us that shoot military type guns do shoot them, but don't reload them. I sometimes buy the Blazer ammo because it's cheap, but even in a revolver extraction becomes a problem. Same gun with brass ammo, and there is no sticking problem. Brass is king for ammo.

gdmoody · 07-13-2012, 11:31 AM

You know, I was reloading some .45 ACP yesterday afternoon and a few of them were some old steel cases that I have used for years. This "brass" came from some surplus ammo that I bought several years ago that were all steel cased. I threw 99% of it away when fired but did keep some of it to see if it could be loaded. The head stamp is T W 5 which is Twin Cities Ordnance Plant in Minnesota made in 1945. I agree that brass is still king but in a pinch, steel can be reloaded. Here is a little picture I just took of two steel cased .45 being balanced on a brass cases one with a little magnet toy that I filched from one of my grandkids:

soundguy · 07-13-2012, 05:34 PM

interesting.

I figured it COULD be done.. though perhaps not specifically the best idea.. etc.

07-12-2012, 06:43 PM	#1
soundguy Advanced Senior Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: florida Contributor Posts: 4,411	? on bras vs steel vs aluminum ok.. been reading up.. I know aluminum basically can't be relaoded due to thin / cracking issues at the mouth.. etc. what about steel. what's the deal. not easy enough to work on dies? totally unreloadable? and reading up on the metalurgy of brass.. and well.. exercising some common sense. i see it is less abrasive to the chanber wall. with that.. how about them steel cases. damaging the chamber? thanks -->

07-12-2012, 07:27 PM	#2
Alpo Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: NW Florida Posts: 8,651	Re: ? on bras vs steel vs aluminum Steel can be hardened or softened as much or as little as you want, depending on alloy and heat treatment, so I don't really see a problem with it "wearing out" the chamber. Mostly (actually, far as I know, ALL) it is berdan primed, so is, for all practical purposes, non-reloadable. I don't like "non-reloadable". If offends my cheap Scots soul. When CCI came out with aluminum cases, they decided it was not safe to reload, so they primed it with a berdan primer that was a funky size. You could not get primers to fit the pocket, so it could not be reloaded. Aluminum does not slide against steel the same way brass does. It is slightly "stickier". I do not trust aluminum cases in an autoloader. Too good a chance of a failure to feed. They are probably fine in a revolver, but again, cannot be reloaded. I've got two boxes of Blazer 45 Colt that was given to me, about 15 years ago. If push come to shove, I'd shoot 'em, but as long as I've got brass, they sit on the shelf. __________________ Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy, and taste good with catsup - George of Lod, Year of Our Lord 297 I always take precautions. Beware the Evil Bullet Fairies.

07-12-2012, 07:49 PM	#3
soundguy Advanced Senior Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: florida Contributor Posts: 4,411	Re: ? on bras vs steel vs aluminum hmm.. I've never looked in steel cases.. didn't realize they were berdan primed. but that alone can't be the only reason people don't relaod them. I've seen berdan primers for sale, and I've seen at least 2 ways to deprime berdan.. a water press, and the lil plier thingys that rip em out.. etc... so are they simply to hard (difficult) to rework?

07-12-2012, 09:47 PM	#4
Alpo Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: NW Florida Posts: 8,651	Re: ? on bras vs steel vs aluminum Steel is harder to work with than brass. It is not as springy. Berden primers are hard to find. Yes, while it's a pain in the ass to deprime 'em, it can be done, but once done, whatcha gonna prime 'em with? __________________ Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy, and taste good with catsup - George of Lod, Year of Our Lord 297 I always take precautions. Beware the Evil Bullet Fairies.

07-12-2012, 10:29 PM	#5
joncutt87 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: Kannapolis, NC Contributor Posts: 1,419	Re: ? on bras vs steel vs aluminum Tulammo .45 rounds are boxer primed __________________ Four words to live by: aequitas, veritas, decus, sacrificium

07-13-2012, 07:24 AM	#6
LDBennett Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Hesperia, CA Posts: 5,711	Re: ? on bras vs steel vs aluminum One of the "features" of the metal brass is that it is very malleable. It can be worked and worked and not fail. Steel is not so malleable by comparison. You can get it to work once as a cartridges case but it may work hardened and not work so great the second time. The cartridge case is really a gasket to hold by handgun pressure up to maybe 40,000 psi. The case walls have to stretch to seal the chamber and return to allow easy extraction. Brass does that easily, multiple times, and allows cartridge cases to be reloaded. Steel does not. Aluminum has the same problem as steel. Neither should be reloaded. A lot of brass (purchases of 100 or more cases) for handguns is not all that expensive and it will last for many reloads. I have brass bought in the 1980's that I still reload today. It eventually gets neck splits and get recycled (brass has good value for re-cycling...Don't just throw it away!) LDBennett

07-13-2012, 08:07 AM	#7
Clipper V.I.P. Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Amarillo, TX Posts: 381	Re: ? on bras vs steel vs aluminum One of my chums reloads aluminum on a regular basis, usually only once, and I did load a couple of steel cases just to see how it would work. Not a good idea mainly because I have so much brass!

07-13-2012, 08:34 AM	#8
carver TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: DAV, Deep in the Pineywoods of East Texas, just west of Shreveport, LA Contributor Posts: 11,234	Re: ? on bras vs steel vs aluminum Steel, and aluminum, cases can be reloaded, but only a time, or two. As mentioned in the above posts, they do not do as good a job of expanding to fill the chamber, and then shrinking back to be easily extracted. The main reason I don't try to reload them is that they are very hard on your reloading dies. They scratch, and cut, the dies badly. Almost all of the cheap ammo for the military type rounds are steel cased, so those of us that shoot military type guns do shoot them, but don't reload them. I sometimes buy the Blazer ammo because it's cheap, but even in a revolver extraction becomes a problem. Same gun with brass ammo, and there is no sticking problem. Brass is king for ammo. __________________ Y'all be safe now, ya hear! Lamentations Chapter 5: 1. Remember, O LORD, what is come upon us: consider, and behold our reproach. 2. Our inheritance is turned to strangers, our houses to aliens. 3. We are orphans and fatherless, our mothers [are] as widows. 5. Our necks [are] under persecution: we labour, [and] have no rest. 16. The crown is fallen [from] our head: woe unto us, that we have sinned! 21. Turn thou us unto thee, O LORD, and we shall be turned; renew our days as of old.

07-13-2012, 11:31 AM	#9
gdmoody Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Northeast Georgia Contributor Posts: 6,311	Re: ? on bras vs steel vs aluminum You know, I was reloading some .45 ACP yesterday afternoon and a few of them were some old steel cases that I have used for years. This "brass" came from some surplus ammo that I bought several years ago that were all steel cased. I threw 99% of it away when fired but did keep some of it to see if it could be loaded. The head stamp is T W 5 which is Twin Cities Ordnance Plant in Minnesota made in 1945. I agree that brass is still king but in a pinch, steel can be reloaded. Here is a little picture I just took of two steel cased .45 being balanced on a brass cases one with a little magnet toy that I filched from one of my grandkids: Attached Images __________________ NRA Endowment Member GeorgiaCarry.Org Member Retired US Army Postal Worker Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to take an ass whoopin'.....author unknown (but obviously brilliant)

07-13-2012, 05:34 PM	#10
soundguy Advanced Senior Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: florida Contributor Posts: 4,411	Re: ? on bras vs steel vs aluminum interesting. I figured it COULD be done.. though perhaps not specifically the best idea.. etc.