Hot Bluing

[goofy]

I just got a pm from a member about how bad I was in the way I talked to you and would fist like to say I AM SORRY
As for the order you do things to get started in this business I would start the training and when you can afford it get a space for a shop then your FFL, business lic. then comes insurance.
You start out small(and stay that way if you want) then you need equipment, supply's,advertise(but in your area with no other smith around word of mouth may be all that you need).
You sound like this is what you want to do and thats great!!!
Good luck
If I can help just ask or pm me.
I promise I don't bite
Again sorry for the attitude I just wanted you to think about what you are doing(and saying) so you don't get in over your head.
Mike

[ShawnDow]

Mike,
It's O.K., your looking out for the people and their safety. I respect that. And, your right, I,m doing things a little back wards, I will work on that and correct my order of operations. As long as we all agree its about safety for the people, the beauty of the firearm, and safety of the people, we are all on the same page!
Shawn Dow
oh.. 39 would be the answer to the age question.

[Jim K]

Hi, Shawn,

I am not playing referee, as I don't even own a striped shirt, but I can see a couple of problems. First, you are doing gunsmith work and getting paid for it. You are also buying and selling guns. Those activities require that you have an FFL, NOW, not when you feel like it. You can't do anything about the bureaucratic delay in issuing an FFL but you can, and must, apply ASAP, and stop doing business until you get the license. BATFE has become even more unfriendly under an anti-gun president and they are hard nosed about unlicensed dealers and gunsmiths.

Yes, get that "closet", one that complies with local zoning laws and so forth. Doing a gun business out of your home is not, IMO, very smart, landlord or no landlord. The "word" is already out that you do gun work and have guns on the premises; if bad guys want to stage a night raid to get them, it is better that they come to a closed shop than to your home and endanger your family.

You will need to get insurance, and whatever else you need to comply with all those silly laws and rules. But the alternative to compliance with the law is forced compliance with a prison guard's orders, and that is a lot less fun.

Jim

[rhmc24]

Belgian Blue (Brownell's & others) is somewhere between colt and hot. You prepare the part same as for other blues, boil it in water, take it out and swab it with Belgian Blue, rub it with steel wool and you have some blue then repeat for darker blue. It takes about 6 or more cycles to get a full deep blue. Doing each part of a revolver takes a while but it does a beautiful blue. It's a tedious process but you can do it in your kitchen in couple hours. I tried it for durability by bluing the end of a shotgun barrel and burnishing it with the side of a fine wire brush wheel and it only made it look better and still looks great couple years later.

[ozo]

[shut up boB....and the rest of you......I hear you snickering...]

This is my apparent solution to this thread.......
and yes, I understand that I have been considered
somewhat a {smart-ass} by an elite yet obscure few....
I believe the pics say what I mean....

[if you <anyone> wish to indulge in such an endeavor as
the blueing of guns, and think you can simply 'paint the surface'
and accomplish a quality feat, with disregard to the dangers of 'chemicals',
the EPA laws, the licensing practices of your locality, or anything
related to it......because you saw a bottle on a shelf at _______,
and said to yourself, I can do that......and even make some $$$$.......
as usual, it is never that simple.
I know the US economy sucks......and we all have bills......[wanna talk to me about my situation?????? One word--TIGHT !!]
If I had the money, I would give you some to ease you through, almost any of you, but I don't...and I will not resort to 'making money on the side'
without some very, very serious thought put first into the ramifications
of my actions and the possibility of the outcome of them that I neglected
to research that would be my demise......of my own shortcomings.....
Find the facts first....then take the action....]

Anyway [STFU OzO....]
My solution to a gun with worn blueing...........

[ozo]

SHOOT IT.....ENJOY.....
be smart, be safe.....
luv ya, oZo

[ShawnDow]

ozo,
I'm a little young for the JFK days and to get any meaning of what you were trying to imply... nice knife by the way.. and your right!, the Ruger looks great! regardless of what you didn't do to it. As long as its safe and functional.
now.. were you spelling "OZ" with the cylinder and 3 .22 rounds?

[goofy]

wow and you even got the ozo in every pic.
Mike

[ShawnDow]

O.K. Mike, .. OZO.. the trigger guard is the other "O" I see it now... So whats with the JFK knife and the line of .22's?

[goofy]

Originally Posted by ShawnDow

O.K. Mike, .. OZO.. the trigger guard is the other "O" I see it now... So whats with the JFK knife and the line of .22's?

The line of .22s I think underline OZO and the knife is just cool!
Mike

[ozo]

No Shawn.......you are not too young......you 39yr old 'old fart'.... [jus' kiddin']
I will be 70 on 9/11 so you are not expected to get any meaning from my
[senile] rambling, hell, I don't even know what I was implying.....
My daughter, a gun store owner, gave me the JFK knife...she knows me well.
My youngest son, a sheriff in GA, gave me the Single-Six....he knows me well.
The .22 is 50yrs old, tighter than my first wif..er..uh..never mind......
obviously abused to some degree[the gun,not my ex] but one hell of a shooter.
I have 3screws that are in pristine condition.......I bought them new.....
but they do NOT have the character this old girl has.....one hell of a testimony
to Mr. William Ruger, his vision, and his accomplishments !!
Oh , BTW, no.....not spelling OZ........but if you put...from left to right.....
the cylinder, then the 3 .22wmr's, then the trigger guard...........
VOILA !!! {subliminal......ozo.........}

[ozo]

Originally Posted by goofy

wow and you even got the ozo in every pic.
Mike

When I first did 'this'....with the subliminal 'ozo'.....
you should go back in time to the thread that JLA
[Brother Josh] posted with his elaborate design
with ammo depicting 'JLA'......really cool.
[probably Becca's idea ...jus' kiddin' Josh...hell, I wouldn't josh ya]
can't remember the thread............

[ozo]

Originally Posted by goofy

The line of .22s I think underline OZO and the knife is just cool!
Mike

The knife isn't 'importante'.......
JFK is.......the last great president...in my mind !
Yes, I loved Ronald Reagan, he was almost a John Wayne
in many ways, but they 'duped' him too.
JFK told Hoover his dog could sit on his couch......any friggin' time
he wanted to........even though the couch is in your [Hoover's] office.....
I am the President.....you work for me !!!
It cost him his LIFE !!!! [paraphrased]
JFK is cool, not so the cheap knife........but my beautiful 'spirited'
daughter understood that about me...and gave me that priceless gift.
The .22lr's not only 'underline' but , as you see, the Single-Six has a
cylinder in it, and a cylinder in front, depicting a 'convertible'........
six .22lr's ......but only 3 .22wmr-----'cause 6 didn't make a good 'Z'...!
NOW....ya'll know me way too personal
I will never be able to 'slide one by you' again...!!

[Jim K]

What did Hoover's dog have to do with Castro bumping off JFK? (Of course Fidel would say it was self defense, and be right!)

Jim

[Helix_FR]

Wow this defiantly deviated from the OP. I'm just going to throw this out there for I don't know what your final intentions are with getting into the gunsmith trade and we all have to start somewere. Believe me, I started from the ground up. If you are going to offer bluing services to your customers and you want to loose money really quick and get a bad rep, cold blue their family heirloom. You might be able to get away with it on your buddies guns but a full blown paying customer will tell you were to stick it if you give them a cold blue gun. Are you still a gunsmith if you don't blue? Well sure there are 2 or 3 in my area that don't but if you offer the service either hot salts or find someone that will do it for you. Belgium blue looks great if done right. I did it, still do it and perfected my way of doing it but its tedious work and not cost effective at all for cash flow. So do yourself a favor after getting the proper certification and licenses, find someone that blues. If you can't there are several of us on this forum that do and are willing to help. I don't like to see people limit themselves if they have the proper resources to get the help they need. Ive had plenty of help from people on here. Gunplumber helped me tremendously when it came to bluing and before I got my system in place. Goofy's words were harsh but truthful. He's just looking out for you. He and I and others take our work very serious. Get trained, get licensed, ask questions. Good luck

[ShawnDow]

Helix_FR,
your right, this post had wandered from its original intent. I started a new post for that... Steps for getting an FFL / Gun shop.
So back to bluing,
Rust Bluing... the old fashioned way... the slowww way... I think I want to try that on one of my guns... most likely that Stevens previously pictured. I understand its labor intensive, and isn't a way to make a quick buck... but this is my gun. I see there are a couple of "solution" choices for the Belgium bluing. Are the differences in solutions like looking at Fords and Chevys... or more like VW Beetle vs. BMW 750IL?

Next question... When I do break down, and at some point I will, and have to Ship a firearm to a Mr. Smith FFL... Do I send it from my place.. General person USA's Post Office, to Mr. Smith FFL? or do I have to find Mr. Smith FFL in Michigan to sent it to Mr. Smith FFL in where ever y'all may be?
because there isn't one for 25 miles according to the FFL search on the website.
Again, thank you ,
Shawn

[rhmc24]

Here is a Belgian Blue job that I got finely pitted all over, a S&W .44-40 Frontier. Huge amount of prep work. The only heat Belgian Blue needs is boiling water.

[ShawnDow]

WOW, looks good.
I know prep work is key!, Removing all "scale" rust, and removing the "big pits" ( with medium, fine, and extra fine 450 ish grit ). And I'm sure there is a point to stop as to where its not safe to remove pits, for the metal is too thin, ( if any one has a picture of an unsafe depth for a pit, pleas post one).
I hear... but would like to know... after boiling ( in water.. de-ionized? ) you apply the solution (to a wet barrel or part?) and let the rusting take place. when you brush that off later... what are you brushing it off with? A fine wire wheel on a 3500 +/_ RPM bench grinder, steel wool, any thing better? And for the tight nooks and crannies? a Dremmil with a fine wire brush?
Hey, that wheel gun looks great!
any way... thanks for the input.
Shawn Dow

[rhmc24]

With Belgian Blue I just pull the part out of the boiling water, walk across the kitchen to the sink and swab on the BB. I rub it off with fine 0000 steel wool, no waiting, just trying to get about 6 cycles as soon as possible. It isn't like old rust and comes off easily. No tools, no Dremel, etc. The revolver has a lot of parts and it takes couple hours to do them all.

All this is from memory since I haven't done it in a few years. I just follow the instructions as closely as possible. If you plan to do it, I recco you prep a piece of scrap, old barrel, etc. and do a trial run to get the hang of it.

[Helix_FR]

Well things are a lot easier if you have your ffl. if you do you can send it directly to the gunsmith doing the work. send it to the address on his ffl. if you have your ffl then he can send it right back to you if you dont have one then he has to ship it back to a ffl near you. then you'll have to fill out anouther 4473 form and pay a transfer fee. hearters belgium blue is the best by the way

[ShawnDow]

this stuff?
http://media.midwayusa.com/productim...958/958388.jpg

they are calling it Art's now.. if it is the same product. Now... do I just go my usual rout of getting supplies ( as the link indicates )? Or are there better, more inexpensive places I should be looking?
Im looking forward to trying something new... Heck if it works on my pea shooter Stevens Model 15, I just might do the same to my MAB Model D. I should put my restoration of that on here... and really let y'all rip into me.
Thanks for the insight Guys,
Shawn

[ShawnDow]

Where would I put a restoration project on this forum? its an old MAB D model, from 1933 ish... curios and RELICS? or make a new thread under technical questions and information?

[Helix_FR]

Yep thats the stuff. arts gun shop is about 30 min from mine, he gave me some good pointers on the stuff.

[ShawnDow]

well then, If you wouldn't mind, send those pointers my way. Im ordering a pint today.

[Helix_FR]

Order some express blue too and ill tell you how.