Here is the 51 senators who opposed the U.N.Treaty - The Firearms Forum

savage170 · 07-28-2012, 12:20 AM

In case you all what to see who didn't support your 2nd amendment right

Jul 26 2012

Sen. Moran and 50 Senators: Second Amendment Rights are not Negotiable

WASHINGTON, D.C. – U.S. Senator Jerry Moran (R-KS) today led 50 senators in expressing grave concern about the dangers posed to Americans’ Second Amendment rights by the United Nations’ Arms Trade Treaty. The 51 senators notified President Obama and Secretary of State Clinton of their intent to oppose ratification of an Arms Trade Treaty that in any way restricts the rights of law-abiding American gun owners. The opposition is strong enough to block the treaty from Senate passage, as treaties submitted to the U.S. Senate require approval of two-thirds of Senators present to be ratified.

In the letter, the senators wrote: “As the treaty process continues, we strongly encourage your administration not only to uphold our country’s constitutional protections of civilian firearms ownership, but to ensure – if necessary, by breaking consensus at the July conference – that the treaty will explicitly recognize the legitimacy of lawful activities associated with firearms, including but not limited to the right of self-defense. As members of the United States Senate, we will oppose the ratification of any Arms Trade Treaty that falls short of this standard.”

“Our country’s sovereignty and the rights of American citizens must not be infringed upon by the United Nations,” Sen. Moran said. “Today, the Senate sends a powerful message to the Obama Administration: an Arms Trade Treaty that does not protect ownership of civilian firearms will fail in the Senate. Our firearm freedoms are not negotiable.”

“The NRA, our four million members and the tens of millions of law-abiding Americans who own firearms will never surrender our right to keep and bear arms to the United Nations,” said Chris Cox, executive director of NRA’s Institute for Legislative Action. “That is why the United Nations Arms Trade Treaty has been met with the full opposition of the NRA. We are grateful for the efforts of these senators, led by Senator Jerry Moran, to oppose this encroachment of international tyranny.”

The U.N. conference on the Arms Trade Treaty is taking place this week in New York City. In October of 2009 at the U.N. General Assembly, the Obama Administration reversed the positions of the two previous Administrations and voted for the U.S. to participate in negotiating the Arms Trade Treaty, purportedly to establish “common international standards for the import, export, and transfer of conventional arms.” However, by threatening to include civilian firearms within its scope, the Arms Trade Treaty could restrict the lawful private ownership of firearms in the United States.

The letter was signed by U.S. Senators Lamar Alexander (R-TN), Kelly Ayotte (R-NH), Max Baucus (D-MT), John Barrasso (R-WY), Mark Begich (D-AK), Roy Blunt (R-MO), John Boozman (R-AR), Richard Burr (R-NC), Bob Casey (D-PA), Dan Coats (R-IN), Tom Coburn (R-OK), Thad Cochran (R-MS), Susan Collins (R-ME), Bob Corker (R-TN), John Cornyn (R-TX), Saxby Chambliss (R-GA), Mike Crapo (R-ID), Jim DeMint (R-SC), Mike Enzi (R-WY), Lindsey Graham (R-SC), Chuck Grassley (R-IA), Orrin Hatch (R-UT), Dean Heller (R-NV), John Hoeven (R-ND), Kay Bailey Hutchison (R-TX), James Inhofe (R-OK), Johnny Isakson (R-GA), Mike Johanns (R-NE), Ron Johnson (R-WI), Jon Kyl (R-AZ), Mike Lee (R-UT), Joe Manchin (D-WV), Mitch McConnell (R-KY), Jerry Moran (R-KS), Lisa Murkowski (R-AK), Ben Nelson (D-NE), Rand Paul (R-KY), Rob Portman (R-OH), Mark Pryor (D-AR), Jim Risch (R-ID), Pat Roberts (R-KS), Marco Rubio (R-FL), Jeff Sessions (R-AL), Richard Shelby (R-AL), Olympia Snowe (R-ME), Jon Tester (D-MT), John Thune (R-SD), Pat Toomey (R-PA), David Vitter (R-LA), Jim Webb (D-VA), and Roger Wicker (R-MS).

I noticed that one of my senators is missing I guess I need to find out what kind of form letter Bill Nelson sends me

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cycloneman · 07-28-2012, 01:22 AM

where did you get this info? i need link

savage170 · 07-28-2012, 01:27 AM

http://moran.senate.gov/public/index...5-3502163c8510

hogger129 · 07-28-2012, 01:36 AM

Not surprising, Herb Kohl didn't stand up against it. Just Ron Johnson. Mr. Johnson will be getting my vote again.

bamajoey · 07-28-2012, 04:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by savage170

In case you all what to see who didn't support your 2nd amendment right

Jul 26 2012

Sen. Moran and 50 Senators: Second Amendment Rights are not Negotiable

WASHINGTON, D.C. – U.S. Senator Jerry Moran (R-KS) today led 50 senators in expressing grave concern about the dangers posed to Americans’ Second Amendment rights by the United Nations’ Arms Trade Treaty. The 51 senators notified President Obama and Secretary of State Clinton of their intent to oppose ratification of an Arms Trade Treaty that in any way restricts the rights of law-abiding American gun owners. The opposition is strong enough to block the treaty from Senate passage, as treaties submitted to the U.S. Senate require approval of two-thirds of Senators present to be ratified.

In the letter, the senators wrote: “As the treaty process continues, we strongly encourage your administration not only to uphold our country’s constitutional protections of civilian firearms ownership, but to ensure – if necessary, by breaking consensus at the July conference – that the treaty will explicitly recognize the legitimacy of lawful activities associated with firearms, including but not limited to the right of self-defense. As members of the United States Senate, we will oppose the ratification of any Arms Trade Treaty that falls short of this standard.”

“Our country’s sovereignty and the rights of American citizens must not be infringed upon by the United Nations,” Sen. Moran said. “Today, the Senate sends a powerful message to the Obama Administration: an Arms Trade Treaty that does not protect ownership of civilian firearms will fail in the Senate. Our firearm freedoms are not negotiable.”

“The NRA, our four million members and the tens of millions of law-abiding Americans who own firearms will never surrender our right to keep and bear arms to the United Nations,” said Chris Cox, executive director of NRA’s Institute for Legislative Action. “That is why the United Nations Arms Trade Treaty has been met with the full opposition of the NRA. We are grateful for the efforts of these senators, led by Senator Jerry Moran, to oppose this encroachment of international tyranny.”

The U.N. conference on the Arms Trade Treaty is taking place this week in New York City. In October of 2009 at the U.N. General Assembly, the Obama Administration reversed the positions of the two previous Administrations and voted for the U.S. to participate in negotiating the Arms Trade Treaty, purportedly to establish “common international standards for the import, export, and transfer of conventional arms.” However, by threatening to include civilian firearms within its scope, the Arms Trade Treaty could restrict the lawful private ownership of firearms in the United States.

The letter was signed by U.S. Senators Lamar Alexander (R-TN), Kelly Ayotte (R-NH), Max Baucus (D-MT), John Barrasso (R-WY), Mark Begich (D-AK), Roy Blunt (R-MO), John Boozman (R-AR), Richard Burr (R-NC), Bob Casey (D-PA), Dan Coats (R-IN), Tom Coburn (R-OK), Thad Cochran (R-MS), Susan Collins (R-ME), Bob Corker (R-TN), John Cornyn (R-TX), Saxby Chambliss (R-GA), Mike Crapo (R-ID), Jim DeMint (R-SC), Mike Enzi (R-WY), Lindsey Graham (R-SC), Chuck Grassley (R-IA), Orrin Hatch (R-UT), Dean Heller (R-NV), John Hoeven (R-ND), Kay Bailey Hutchison (R-TX), James Inhofe (R-OK), Johnny Isakson (R-GA), Mike Johanns (R-NE), Ron Johnson (R-WI), Jon Kyl (R-AZ), Mike Lee (R-UT), Joe Manchin (D-WV), Mitch McConnell (R-KY), Jerry Moran (R-KS), Lisa Murkowski (R-AK), Ben Nelson (D-NE), Rand Paul (R-KY), Rob Portman (R-OH), Mark Pryor (D-AR), Jim Risch (R-ID), Pat Roberts (R-KS), Marco Rubio (R-FL), Jeff Sessions (R-AL), Richard Shelby (R-AL), Olympia Snowe (R-ME), Jon Tester (D-MT), John Thune (R-SD), Pat Toomey (R-PA), David Vitter (R-LA), Jim Webb (D-VA), and Roger Wicker (R-MS).

I noticed that one of my senators is missing I guess I need to find out what kind of form letter Bill Nelson sends me
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You will be wasting your time sending him a letter. I have sent him dozens of e-mails over the past few years, and all I get in return are form letters about how he is working for the good of the citizens of Florida.

Useless liberal.

retired grunt · 07-28-2012, 05:15 AM

Oddly No NY senator signed it! I was sure ole Chuck Schumer

loved the 2nd amendment.

BRSmith · 07-28-2012, 08:26 AM

I see both of the Minnesota Senators neglected to sign as well. Not that I was really expecting to see their names since they both are democrats...

1969SS396 · 07-28-2012, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BRSmith

I see both of the Minnesota Senators neglected to sign as well. Not that I was really expecting to see their names since they both are democrats...

Same as Michigan's Levin and Stabmenow

Slabsides · 07-28-2012, 08:40 AM

BOTH senators from Alabama signed it!

shorter260513 · 07-28-2012, 08:44 AM

Im glad to see both Tn senators signed hopefully its their true beleifs and not the pending november election

gvw3 · 07-28-2012, 08:51 AM

Failed to see Kirk from IL on this list. I know he had a stroke some months back and not sure how he is doing. Roland Burris was one of the few people not under inditment so he was appointed to fill Obama's seat. I don't think he can read and write so that's not a surprise.

H-D · 07-28-2012, 10:10 AM

thanks Thad, and Roger, Glad to see my e-mail was successful

Country101 · 07-28-2012, 10:31 AM

Looks like 2 from Arkansas!

Oh and folks that like to contact senators and such:

Some, maybe a bunch(I'm not sure, but I had one tell me of such practices.) use a kind of equation to guage support. The give points for differant kinds of contact. I believe that an email is say 1 point, phone call is 2 points, and a personal visit is 5 points. Like "Whose line" "the points dont really matter". These are just examples. But basically, the more personal and the more trouble it is gives you more points, so to speak. They use this to gauge support. If a person shows up to talk in person they equate that to more people supporting it. I didnt explain that very well, but maybe you get my meaning. So if possible, send them hand written letters or make an appointment and see them or one of thier aides.

bamajoey · 07-28-2012, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gvw3

Failed to see Kirk from IL on this list. I know he had a stroke some months back and not sure how he is doing. Roland Burris was one of the few people not under inditment so he was appointed to fill Obama's seat. I don't think he can read and write so that's not a surprise.

Ignorance is no excuse, someone could have showed him where to put his X.

Nighthawk · 07-28-2012, 11:00 AM

Both from TX on list.

Bigr Bang Thry · 07-28-2012, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by retired grunt

Oddly No NY senator signed it! I was sure ole Chuck Schumer

loved the 2nd amendment.

Yeah, Ol' Chucky didn't sign on, and neither did his clone Kristen Gillibrand... I WONDER WHY ??? I just saw Ol' Chucky boy on a video saying that he doesn't want to do away with the 2nd ammendment, and NEVER DID... (like I believe THAT ! ) He went on to say that we should all just come together and support REASONABLE and RATIONAL policies to keep guns out of the wrong hands.... Of course, he forgot to say exactly who would decide whose hands would be deemed right or wrong, and for what reason...

Bigr Bang Thry · 07-28-2012, 01:13 PM

The video I mentioned of Chucky is in the thread " Dems hide magazine ban in cyber security bill" for those interested.

WARNING: It is advised that you have some bromo seltzer within reach if you watch the video.

sub-moa · 07-28-2012, 02:31 PM

Happy to see Rand Paul and Mitch McConnell's Names on it.

Proud to see all of the names. Wish there were 100 !

sting75ray · 07-28-2012, 04:28 PM

Both from Oklahoma signed it.

I knew they would.

JohnHenry · 07-28-2012, 04:52 PM

I don't understand how the "dineamic duo" ( on purpose ) from Michigan keep getting re-elected !

Rocketman1 · 07-28-2012, 06:36 PM

And just in case some of you missed it, Hillary did not sign the treaty yesterday, due to the 51 Senators opposing it.
And they opposed it, because we the people put pressure on our Senators.

Lets keep the pressure on!

jedwil · 07-28-2012, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nighthawk

Both from TX on list.

Glad for that. I'll email my thanks to both. Wish Kay was staying....

graehaven · 07-28-2012, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by retired grunt

Oddly No NY senator signed it! I was sure ole Chuck Schumer

loved the 2nd amendment.

Ha, and Gillebrand was sold to voters as a gun loving representative.

zkovach · 07-28-2012, 07:59 PM

I noticed Debbie stabenow who claims to be gun friendly!! Is not on that list!!!!! Oh yeah she does whatever Obama and pelosi does.

jlloyd73 · 07-28-2012, 08:04 PM

Here's my response.....................

ONLY 51 !!!!!!

07-28-2012, 12:20 AM	#1
savage170 V.I.P. Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: FL Posts: 387	Here is the 51 senators who opposed the U.N.Treaty In case you all what to see who didn't support your 2nd amendment right Jul 26 2012 Sen. Moran and 50 Senators: Second Amendment Rights are not Negotiable WASHINGTON, D.C. – U.S. Senator Jerry Moran (R-KS) today led 50 senators in expressing grave concern about the dangers posed to Americans’ Second Amendment rights by the United Nations’ Arms Trade Treaty. The 51 senators notified President Obama and Secretary of State Clinton of their intent to oppose ratification of an Arms Trade Treaty that in any way restricts the rights of law-abiding American gun owners. The opposition is strong enough to block the treaty from Senate passage, as treaties submitted to the U.S. Senate require approval of two-thirds of Senators present to be ratified. In the letter, the senators wrote: “As the treaty process continues, we strongly encourage your administration not only to uphold our country’s constitutional protections of civilian firearms ownership, but to ensure – if necessary, by breaking consensus at the July conference – that the treaty will explicitly recognize the legitimacy of lawful activities associated with firearms, including but not limited to the right of self-defense. As members of the United States Senate, we will oppose the ratification of any Arms Trade Treaty that falls short of this standard.” “Our country’s sovereignty and the rights of American citizens must not be infringed upon by the United Nations,” Sen. Moran said. “Today, the Senate sends a powerful message to the Obama Administration: an Arms Trade Treaty that does not protect ownership of civilian firearms will fail in the Senate. Our firearm freedoms are not negotiable.” “The NRA, our four million members and the tens of millions of law-abiding Americans who own firearms will never surrender our right to keep and bear arms to the United Nations,” said Chris Cox, executive director of NRA’s Institute for Legislative Action. “That is why the United Nations Arms Trade Treaty has been met with the full opposition of the NRA. We are grateful for the efforts of these senators, led by Senator Jerry Moran, to oppose this encroachment of international tyranny.” The U.N. conference on the Arms Trade Treaty is taking place this week in New York City. In October of 2009 at the U.N. General Assembly, the Obama Administration reversed the positions of the two previous Administrations and voted for the U.S. to participate in negotiating the Arms Trade Treaty, purportedly to establish “common international standards for the import, export, and transfer of conventional arms.” However, by threatening to include civilian firearms within its scope, the Arms Trade Treaty could restrict the lawful private ownership of firearms in the United States. The letter was signed by U.S. Senators Lamar Alexander (R-TN), Kelly Ayotte (R-NH), Max Baucus (D-MT), John Barrasso (R-WY), Mark Begich (D-AK), Roy Blunt (R-MO), John Boozman (R-AR), Richard Burr (R-NC), Bob Casey (D-PA), Dan Coats (R-IN), Tom Coburn (R-OK), Thad Cochran (R-MS), Susan Collins (R-ME), Bob Corker (R-TN), John Cornyn (R-TX), Saxby Chambliss (R-GA), Mike Crapo (R-ID), Jim DeMint (R-SC), Mike Enzi (R-WY), Lindsey Graham (R-SC), Chuck Grassley (R-IA), Orrin Hatch (R-UT), Dean Heller (R-NV), John Hoeven (R-ND), Kay Bailey Hutchison (R-TX), James Inhofe (R-OK), Johnny Isakson (R-GA), Mike Johanns (R-NE), Ron Johnson (R-WI), Jon Kyl (R-AZ), Mike Lee (R-UT), Joe Manchin (D-WV), Mitch McConnell (R-KY), Jerry Moran (R-KS), Lisa Murkowski (R-AK), Ben Nelson (D-NE), Rand Paul (R-KY), Rob Portman (R-OH), Mark Pryor (D-AR), Jim Risch (R-ID), Pat Roberts (R-KS), Marco Rubio (R-FL), Jeff Sessions (R-AL), Richard Shelby (R-AL), Olympia Snowe (R-ME), Jon Tester (D-MT), John Thune (R-SD), Pat Toomey (R-PA), David Vitter (R-LA), Jim Webb (D-VA), and Roger Wicker (R-MS). I noticed that one of my senators is missing I guess I need to find out what kind of form letter Bill Nelson sends me -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -->

07-28-2012, 01:22 AM	#2
cycloneman Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Louisiana Posts: 7,434	Re: Here is the 51 senators who opposed the U.N.Treaty where did you get this info? i need link __________________ Who are you going to serve today?

07-28-2012, 01:27 AM	#3
savage170 V.I.P. Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: FL Posts: 387	Re: Here is the 51 senators who opposed the U.N.Treaty http://moran.senate.gov/public/index...5-3502163c8510

07-28-2012, 01:36 AM	#4
hogger129 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 4,078	Re: Here is the 51 senators who opposed the U.N.Treaty Not surprising, Herb Kohl didn't stand up against it. Just Ron Johnson. Mr. Johnson will be getting my vote again. __________________ Samuel Adams once said, "among the natural rights of the colonists are these: first, a right to life, secondly to liberty, thirdly to property; together with the right to defend them in the best manner they can." Last edited by hogger129; 07-28-2012 at 01:38 AM..

07-28-2012, 05:15 AM	#6
retired grunt V.I.P. Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Northern NY Posts: 416	Re: Here is the 51 senators who opposed the U.N.Treaty Oddly No NY senator signed it! I was sure ole Chuck Schumer loved the 2nd amendment. __________________ "A pistol defends your property and your person from unanticipated and barely anticipated threats from thieves and robbers. With it, you can control your immediate environment. A rifle defends your freedom from oppressors and tyrants. With it, you can enforce your will" -Gabe Saurez

07-28-2012, 08:26 AM	#7
BRSmith V.I.P. Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Minnesota Posts: 224	Re: Here is the 51 senators who opposed the U.N.Treaty I see both of the Minnesota Senators neglected to sign as well. Not that I was really expecting to see their names since they both are democrats...

07-28-2012, 08:40 AM	#9
Slabsides Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: L.A. (Lower Alabama) Posts: 926	Re: Here is the 51 senators who opposed the U.N.Treaty BOTH senators from Alabama signed it! __________________ /l ,[____], l---L -OlllllllO- ()_)-()_)-o-)_)

07-28-2012, 08:44 AM	#10
shorter260513 V.I.P. Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 262	Re: Here is the 51 senators who opposed the U.N.Treaty Im glad to see both Tn senators signed hopefully its their true beleifs and not the pending november election

07-28-2012, 08:51 AM	#11
gvw3 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Chicago IL Area Contributor Posts: 3,463	Re: Here is the 51 senators who opposed the U.N.Treaty Failed to see Kirk from IL on this list. I know he had a stroke some months back and not sure how he is doing. Roland Burris was one of the few people not under inditment so he was appointed to fill Obama's seat. I don't think he can read and write so that's not a surprise. __________________ Criminals advocate stronger gun laws to foster a safer work environment. This limits their exposure to risk.

07-28-2012, 10:10 AM	#12
H-D Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Mississippi Posts: 1,334	Re: Here is the 51 senators who opposed the U.N.Treaty thanks Thad, and Roger, Glad to see my e-mail was successful __________________ And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. Revelation 19:11

07-28-2012, 10:31 AM	#13
Country101 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Dardanelle, AR Contributor Posts: 2,045	Re: Here is the 51 senators who opposed the U.N.Treaty Looks like 2 from Arkansas! Oh and folks that like to contact senators and such: Some, maybe a bunch(I'm not sure, but I had one tell me of such practices.) use a kind of equation to guage support. The give points for differant kinds of contact. I believe that an email is say 1 point, phone call is 2 points, and a personal visit is 5 points. Like "Whose line" "the points dont really matter". These are just examples. But basically, the more personal and the more trouble it is gives you more points, so to speak. They use this to gauge support. If a person shows up to talk in person they equate that to more people supporting it. I didnt explain that very well, but maybe you get my meaning. So if possible, send them hand written letters or make an appointment and see them or one of thier aides. __________________ Gainfully employed= shooting somebody elses bullets and getting paid for it Country101

07-28-2012, 11:00 AM	#15
Nighthawk Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: South Central Texas Posts: 3,330	Re: Here is the 51 senators who opposed the U.N.Treaty Both from TX on list. __________________ Our obligations to our country never cease but with our lives." --John Adams, letter to Benjamin Rush, April 18, 1808 NRA Life TSRA Life GOA Member

07-28-2012, 01:13 PM	#17
Bigr Bang Thry V.I.P. Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Western New York Posts: 187	Re: Here is the 51 senators who opposed the U.N.Treaty The video I mentioned of Chucky is in the thread " Dems hide magazine ban in cyber security bill" for those interested. WARNING: It is advised that you have some bromo seltzer within reach if you watch the video.

07-28-2012, 02:31 PM	#18
sub-moa V.I.P. Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Kentucky Posts: 407	Re: Here is the 51 senators who opposed the U.N.Treaty Happy to see Rand Paul and Mitch McConnell's Names on it. Proud to see all of the names. Wish there were 100 ! __________________ "America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln

07-28-2012, 04:28 PM	#19
sting75ray Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 1,093	Re: Here is the 51 senators who opposed the U.N.Treaty Both from Oklahoma signed it.I knew they would. __________________ [IMG][/IMG]

07-28-2012, 04:52 PM	#20
JohnHenry Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Livingston county, Michigan Posts: 1,244	Re: Here is the 51 senators who opposed the U.N.Treaty I don't understand how the "dineamic duo" ( on purpose ) from Michigan keep getting re-elected ! __________________ Freedom .... Is Never Free ! We need Term Limits .... Send the "Professional Politicians" home .

07-28-2012, 06:36 PM	#21
Rocketman1 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Columbus, Ohio Posts: 1,107	Re: Here is the 51 senators who opposed the U.N.Treaty And just in case some of you missed it, Hillary did not sign the treaty yesterday, due to the 51 Senators opposing it. And they opposed it, because we the people put pressure on our Senators. Lets keep the pressure on! __________________ There is no such thing as a gun accident. Irresponsible gun owners cause so-called gun accidents.

07-28-2012, 07:59 PM	#24
zkovach Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Michigan Posts: 1,005	Re: Here is the 51 senators who opposed the U.N.Treaty I noticed Debbie stabenow who claims to be gun friendly!! Is not on that list!!!!! Oh yeah she does whatever Obama and pelosi does. __________________ Liberalism: Poverty for ALL!!

07-28-2012, 08:04 PM	#25
jlloyd73 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Contributor Posts: 1,938	Re: Here is the 51 senators who opposed the U.N.Treaty Here's my response..................... ONLY 51 !!!!!! __________________ --------------------------------------------------- The only thing better than good family is good friends. J and D Lloyd Get ready...it's getting "real" and really fast!