Bullet Casting Pro's and Con's

[myfriendis410]

I have been casting for over 30 years and have learned a few things; mostly in the last year trying to find a bullet and alloy that will shoot in my Sharps 1874 repro. Here's a little:

Range lead: often available at your local club for the cost of a few hours and some propane. We usually gather a few other members together to cut the labor down and divvy it up among us. Range lead is (obviously) a combination of everything from the hardest cast (WW) to pure lead (think .22 r.f.). The addition of a bit of tin will help "wet" the alloy to the mold. Any more than about 2% is basically unnecessary, and if you go too high can create solder. I get my tin from a local company that solders circuit boards. They are thrilled to dispose of the used solder without the hazmat fee.

WW's are a great source for HARD bullets. Unfortunately as some have found, many states have outlawed lead WW's. Again; the addition of some small amount of tin will aid in casting a crisp bullet. WW's also have a small amount of arsenic in it to harden. One can allow the finished bullets to age for a few months, or can oven cure them at 450 F for about an hour then let them rest for a couple of days to stabilize.

A mix of both. I've been working with a 50/50 mix of WW and range lead to drive a 500 gr. bullet at around 1,300 fps in my Sharps. I also use it in my paper patching and am up around 1,550 fps with respectable accuracy. You can also heat treat this alloy and it will age-harden as well.

Lubes. What was written above has some truth to it. A manufacturer has to look at the overall life of his product to determine what goes into it. A commercial high temp stick lube wears well and is easy to work with at both ends of the process. It's not the best choice by far. I read up on the subject and developed my own which is far superior to anything out there and is cheaper too. I buy cakes of surf wax (pure carnauba), paraffin (which does nothing but add bulk and raise the melt point), a toilet ring (beeswax and vaseline), and a teaspoon of STP oil treatment. This mix has to be heated (I use a Star) and stays where you put it but is not sticky. That lube reduced group sizes in my rifle to nearly one hole at 100 yards with cast WW's. I can live with that. You just have to find what works best for you.

A big part of the reason we cast is to reduce overall shooting costs. Scrounging, and looking for good deals and alternative methods are part of the whole process. Will it save you money? You can tell your wife that, but trust me; it ain't so! But it will make a better shooter out of you.

[76Highboy]

Originally Posted by myfriendis410

I have been casting for over 30 years and have learned a few things; mostly in the last year trying to find a bullet and alloy that will shoot in my Sharps 1874 repro. Here's a little:

Range lead: often available at your local club for the cost of a few hours and some propane. We usually gather a few other members together to cut the labor down and divvy it up among us. Range lead is (obviously) a combination of everything from the hardest cast (WW) to pure lead (think .22 r.f.). The addition of a bit of tin will help "wet" the alloy to the mold. Any more than about 2% is basically unnecessary, and if you go too high can create solder. I get my tin from a local company that solders circuit boards. They are thrilled to dispose of the used solder without the hazmat fee.

WW's are a great source for HARD bullets. Unfortunately as some have found, many states have outlawed lead WW's. Again; the addition of some small amount of tin will aid in casting a crisp bullet. WW's also have a small amount of arsenic in it to harden. One can allow the finished bullets to age for a few months, or can oven cure them at 450 F for about an hour then let them rest for a couple of days to stabilize.

A mix of both. I've been working with a 50/50 mix of WW and range lead to drive a 500 gr. bullet at around 1,300 fps in my Sharps. I also use it in my paper patching and am up around 1,550 fps with respectable accuracy. You can also heat treat this alloy and it will age-harden as well.

Lubes. What was written above has some truth to it. A manufacturer has to look at the overall life of his product to determine what goes into it. A commercial high temp stick lube wears well and is easy to work with at both ends of the process. It's not the best choice by far. I read up on the subject and developed my own which is far superior to anything out there and is cheaper too. I buy cakes of surf wax (pure carnauba), paraffin (which does nothing but add bulk and raise the melt point), a toilet ring (beeswax and vaseline), and a teaspoon of STP oil treatment. This mix has to be heated (I use a Star) and stays where you put it but is not sticky. That lube reduced group sizes in my rifle to nearly one hole at 100 yards with cast WW's. I can live with that. You just have to find what works best for you.

A big part of the reason we cast is to reduce overall shooting costs. Scrounging, and looking for good deals and alternative methods are part of the whole process. Will it save you money? You can tell your wife that, but trust me; it ain't so! But it will make a better shooter out of you.

Very good info. Thank you.

[soundguy]

all this thought of tackle reminds me.. my deceased FIL had a bunch of tackle i put ion the garage.. had some large round and tringular weights. I gotta find them...

[DBMJR1]

Originally Posted by 76Highboy

That is great. The info you guys are giving me is what I am looking for. My decision is to do it. I will be ordering my stuff through Graf & Sons exclusively but I am sure my wife will make me wait until my birthday to open it.

My next question. How do I know what size molds I need. Rusty said that he can re size to the size he needs so he doesn't get leading. How do I know what size that is. So far I have learned that for .357 I need a .358 mold, and for .429 I need a .430 mold. Also, how do I "Slug" a barrel? Will that help me determine the "Best" size for not leading my barrel? Also, if I have excessive leading, will Alpo come over and scrub my guns?

Slugging a bore is easy. Just cast a soft bullet, and beat it through your barrel using a wooden dowel. Measure the diameter, then size .001-.002 larger.

[Alpo]

Alpo don't even clean his guns. Ain't no way he's gonna clean yours.

[Alpo]

What works better than a bullet is a round ball. A 36 pistol uses .375 ball. 44 uses .454 and 50 caliber rifle uses .490. Bullets have grease grooves in them, which can mess up your mearsurement. Soft lead ball is better. If you know anybody that shoots black powder, you might can con him out of a couple of balls.

[aa1911]

Hey, good info on the homeade lube; gonna half to do some more reading and come up with something similar. Been using lyman's stick lube lately but it's too sticky for my liking, have to use the heater element to soften it just a little during the winter months. I have a bunch of parafin hanging around, they're easy to come by as is the rest of the stuff in that recipe above.

[aa1911]

hey, wait a minute. I corrected the word 'half' to 'have' and when I hit post, it came back! what the crap....

[DBMJR1]

Originally Posted by Alpo

. . . you might can con him out of a couple of balls.

[76Highboy]

Originally Posted by Alpo

Alpo don't even clean his guns. Ain't no way he's gonna clean yours.

Sheeesh, maybe I ought to come clean yours then. Hey, you probably have some neat ones I'm sure.

[Alpo]

Could be. Ten years or so back, when my daughter brought her boyfriend home to meet the family, the poor boy had never shot a gun. So we went shooting.

They took pictures.






That's nowhere near ALL. That was just to give him a representative sample of what shooting is like.

[dammitman]

this is actually really simple. get the items you need to be able to cast and learn how, in fact get good at it. if you are lucky you will enjoy doing it and it doesnt then seem like a job, more like fun. now that you get it(how to make bullets) just start to stockpile all the cleaned lead you can. someday lead might just become very hard to come by as that the way the winds are blowing. saveit, all of it. buy cheaply made cast bullets for target shooting from online sources like missouri bullet company as they are cheap and plentyful for now. someday when they go out of sight or lead becomes regulated by our goverment, you will have all that stored up that you saved and wont care cause you figured all this out and now how to cast your own. done!

[76Highboy]

Originally Posted by dammitman

this is actually really simple. get the items you need to be able to cast and learn how, in fact get good at it. if you are lucky you will enjoy doing it and it doesnt then seem like a job, more like fun. now that you get it(how to make bullets) just start to stockpile all the cleaned lead you can. someday lead might just become very hard to come by as that the way the winds are blowing. saveit, all of it. buy cheaply made cast bullets for target shooting from online sources like missouri bullet company as they are cheap and plentyful for now. someday when they go out of sight or lead becomes regulated by our goverment, you will have all that stored up that you saved and wont care cause you figured all this out and now how to cast your own. done!

Dammitman, your right. Missouri Bullets are well priced. Good info.

[dammitman]

Originally Posted by 76Highboy

Dammitman, your right. Missouri Bullets are well priced. Good info.

i do what i can for the masses, sometimes i am right and they listen, sometimes i am wrong and they listen, and vice versa,,,and all the way around, mostly, just wrong!!

[aa1911]

After the price of lead and lead products jumped in the last few years, I think stockpiling a bit of lead is a good idea. Shot used to be $8/25lb bag when I started skeet, now pushing $50. I don't see it ever getting any better!

[myfriendis410]

I also wanted to mention a bit about molds and related equipment.

I've used Lyman, RCBS, Lee, Hensley and Gibbs, and Saeco. Generally, like anything else, you get what you pay for. I tend to go back to the cast iron mold blocks for a couple of reasons. First; for me they last longer. I have yet to wear one out (assuming you keep 'em rust free) and they keep puking out good bullets. They do require maintenance and upkeep. However; they also hold more heat than an aluminum mold so you tend to get more casting cycles before cooling them. I keep a wet sponge (safer than water) next to my casting furnace and when the mold gets too hot I rest it on the sponge to cool it. This allows me to cast more quickly. Another (maybe better) technique is to use 2 molds. When one gets too hot to cast with you set it aside and cast with the other, then repeat.

For pistol bullets I like gang molds. A four cavity is great, and a six cavity is even better. They do get heavy after a while; that's one area aluminum is easier to use. For my rifle molds I tend toward single cavity simply because the finished bullets are going to be more uniform (at least that's the idea).

I use the Lee Production Pot. I have two of them and I keep one for range lead and tin (pistol) and the other for WW (rifle). They heat up fast and generally deliver a pretty consistent temperature and rate of flow. Others like dippers. I'm not saying they're better; it's just what I'm used to.

Fluxing the melt is accomplished with the best flux available: sawdust. You leave it on the melt and rouse the liquid with a dipper or old spoon and leave on the top. It turns to activated charcoal and traps impurities and metals you don't want in your finished bullets like zinc and aluminum and copper. I cast in my garage with the doors open for ventilation.

One piece of equipment I absolutely love is my luber-sizer. It's a Star; without a doubt one of the best labor-saving devices you can own. They aren't cheap but boy do they work fast. Mine has a heater that I can adjust, allowing me to use higher temperature lubes that tend to be less sticky. You might consider buying one someday.

If you are just casting for pistol, you can purchase lubes that will do the job very well. Interestingly; what the bullet lube does is still something of a mystery. There are a number of theories, but nothing has been definitively proven as to what it really is supposed to do. All I know is; different lubes perform differently in different guns. Case in point. My Sharps load is a 518 gr. cast, sized to .4580" and lubed with my own recipe. When I first started casting that bullet I used a couple of commercial lubes. At 1,300 fps those loads started to keyhole and I had indifferent accuracy below that velocity. With my home made lube I am shooting above 1,300 fps and getting sub m.o.a. accuracy. That's IMO spectacular accuracy, especially considering that's with a tang sight.

Hopefully this didn't confuse you and gives you more to consider when starting to piece out your casting setup. A great resource is the lasc website (Los Angeles Sillhouette Club). You'll find a wealth of information there.

[Jim K]

I have been called names for bringing up this sad subject, but if you are going to cast bullets PLEASE make sure you do it in a well ventilated area and where your home HVAC system won't pick up the fumes. Also, protect your hands when handling lead and wash your hands well before eating.

There are plenty of jokes about "lead poison", but lead really is a poison, and too many of us forget that.

So unless you want to find out that enough lead to last the rest of your life isn't as much as you thought, take precautions around the stuff.

Jim

[76Highboy]

Originally Posted by Jim K

I have been called names for bringing up this sad subject, but if you are going to cast bullets PLEASE make sure you do it in a well ventilated area and where your home HVAC system won't pick up the fumes. Also, protect your hands when handling lead and wash your hands well before eating.

There are plenty of jokes about "lead poison", but lead really is a poison, and too many of us forget that.

So unless you want to find out that enough lead to last the rest of your life isn't as much as you thought, take precautions around the stuff.

Jim

Thanks Jim.

In support of what you just stated, my plan is to install a double exhaust fan in my garage above where I will be casting. The two benefits will be exhausting the lead fumes, and I can leave one on during the day in the summer time so when I come home from work the garage will be cooler so I can go out and do the gun related things that I enjoy. Our garage is very well insulated and I will have a seperate A/C-heat duct running into it. So winter or summer I can function in comfort, and I can cast bullets safely. Also, I enjoy home projects so I am looking forward to installing the exhaust system.

[howlnmad]

Originally Posted by 76Highboy

Thanks Jim.

In support of what you just stated, my plan is to install a double exhaust fan in my garage above where I will be casting. The two benefits will be exhausting the lead fumes, and I can leave one on during the day in the summer time so when I come home from work the garage will be cooler so I can go out and do the gun related things that I enjoy. Our garage is very well insulated and I will have a seperate A/C-heat duct running into it. So winter or summer I can function in comfort, and I can cast bullets safely. Also, I enjoy home projects so I am looking forward to installing the exhaust system.

I'm gonna stir the pot a little (pun intended). If you're getting fumes..................... your lead is to damn HOT.

[myfriendis410]

Originally Posted by howlnmad

I'm gonna stir the pot a little (pun intended). If you're getting fumes..................... your lead is to damn HOT.

I agree. The primary means of ingesting lead is by transfer to your mouth. Bullet casting is not smelting. You are not reducing the alloy. You will never get it hot enough to cause lead fumes. There is an argument for other contaminants coming off of the melt, so good ventilation and frequent hand washing is a really good idea. I open the garage door and the side door which provides me with plenty of airflow.

What appears to be a worse poison is zinc. If you do get the melt hot enough and you have zinc contamination (all too common) you can poison yourself with it. Again; keeping the melt temperature at a reasonable level will eliminate any chance of receiving a dose of something nasty.

Do some research. There is a wealth of information out there. Then make your own decisions.

[76Highboy]

Originally Posted by howlnmad

I'm gonna stir the pot a little (pun intended). If you're getting fumes..................... your lead is to damn HOT.

Well, now I am going to stir the pot a little too. The wife says I get gas from eating Spam and eggs, and drinking soda pop. Does that warrant the exhaust fans? I just need to know.

[soundguy]

a little safe handling practice goes a long way.

i handle led a bit doing electronics repair. there are days I'm soldering 8hrs at a time.

things like washing your hands, not putting lead into your mouth.. not handling it while eating.. not working around it near food / water.. etc.. etc.

common sense good handling practices and good ventilation are your friends.

I did a heavy metals test a while back as a 'check' while chasing a few other problems to see if I was having a lead problem ( i restore antique tractors and have to remove 50-070 yr old paint from them thru a variety of methods.. most that make dust.. older paint could have lead in it.. etc.. ) in any case.. i was relieved to find that simple good handling practices 9 respirator.. washing.. etc.. ) has kept my lead level at normal, even though I am actually around it in the environment quite a bit.

practice some common sense and you will be fine.

[aa1911]

a lead thermometer is a nice tool to have also at least until you find out where to set your lead pot for optimum casting temperature. They're around $30 I believe, maybe more now. Looks just like a candy thermometer except it goes up to 1000' F.

I open my garage doors and set up my stuff right on the edge of the doorway and usually add a box fan to help pull the fumes away. The flux is about the only thing you can even detect or any contaminents that get in the pot. I always do it on a clear day, I don't want any chance of a raindrop coming in!

Most indoor ranges will have signs stating no food/drink allowed and no tobbacco use whatsoever while inside. Not a bad idea.

[RustyFN]

Originally Posted by aa1911

a lead thermometer is a nice tool to have also at least until you find out where to set your lead pot for optimum casting temperature. They're around $30 I believe, maybe more now. Looks just like a candy thermometer except it goes up to 1000' F.

I open my garage doors and set up my stuff right on the edge of the doorway and usually add a box fan to help pull the fumes away. The flux is about the only thing you can even detect or any contaminents that get in the pot. I always do it on a clear day, I don't want any chance of a raindrop coming in!

Most indoor ranges will have signs stating no food/drink allowed and no tobbacco use whatsoever while inside. Not a bad idea.

I couldn't agree more. I never melt lead without my thermometer.

[howlnmad]

Originally Posted by 76Highboy

Well, now I am going to stir the pot a little too. The wife says I get gas from eating Spam and eggs, and drinking soda pop. Does that warrant the exhaust fans? I just need to know.

YES IT DOES