PPS43: Bolt Locked on Live Round

[dmc8163]

Hi, I'm new to the forum and I need help. Yesterday I bought a PPS43-C pistol at a local gun show. I brought it home and took it out to test fire. I pulled the bolt back and let it go forwarded unassisted. It stripped a round from the magazine and chambered it. I pulled the trigger with no effect. The trigger was slack/loose. When I tried to pull the bolt back it was locked up. I am very familiar with firearms and have assembled parts kits. Given the live round I'm not inclined to use a lot of force to free the bolt. This is the ATF approved version of the PPS43 with completely revised trigger group among other modifications.
Thank you for your help.

[Jim K]

Were you using a regular range? Or are you able to shoot in a controlled area?

The best way to handle that situation is to remove the magazine, keep the gun pointed down range and bring it forward, striking the bolt handle on a vertical post, tree, or anything that is handy. That will usually free the stuck round and extract it.

Jim

[JLA]

I personally would set the buttstock on solid ground and while holding the muzzle away from my head of course, use my foot and weight on the charging handle to rack the bolt and free the stuck round. Of course remove the magazine, just in case it does fire, all youll have is a brown spot to remove from your pants as the one round zips in front of your face..

Ive had to do this very thing to many a M1 carbine. Due to cheap laquered cases getting chambered into a hot chamber and let stand a while. Thereby gluing the round to the chamber.

[dmc8163]

Jim K and JLK, thank you for your response. I do have a controlled area and I will try both method to free the bolt today. If I'm unsuccessful what damage would occur if I strike the bolt handle with a 3-5 pound hammer in the opposite direction to free the bolt? I'll let you know asap as to the results. Thanks again, D

[ozo]

I hate when this happens......
I used to buy a lot of lacquered ammo [russian]
and mostly .223 and thought I was smart and had some
very storeable ammo......
I always worried I would break off the charging handle
to free it.....
Now when I shoot lacquered brass I shoot less in a row,
and don't leave any chambered more than a second or two.
Cut down on the use of this ammo for hunting or a SD round.
I have even taken thinner and cleaned the brass before shooting....
but the brass really doesn't like it when I do.

Be careful D.....
You would think this 43 would be used to lacquered ammo,as it's big
brother the 41......how long was it a soviet army weapon?????

[Jim K]

I don't like the "butt on the ground" method because that bullet might not miss my head, and then I would get blood and brains all over my shirt and nothing makes my wife madder than stains Tide won't get out.

Jim

[ozo]

Too funny Jim,
but so true.......jeez, the things they get upset about.
At least, I think, the 43 has a pretty large charging handle...
haven't seen one in a while.....although I don't know how tough it is.

[soundguy]

i think a wood dowel and mallet might be usefull here. i keep one on my reloading bench...

[Jim K]

Please don't use a wood dowel to remove a barrel obstruction. All you do is add a splintered dowel to the obstruction.

As for using a dowel and a mallet to drive out a live round, if that round goes off, the dowel and the mallet will be blown away at high speed, the barrel will likely be bulged or split and the person holding the mallet may be seriously injured.

Jim

[soundguy]

Originally Posted by Jim K

Please don't use a wood dowel to remove a barrel obstruction. All you do is add a splintered dowel to the obstruction.

As for using a dowel and a mallet to drive out a live round, if that round goes off, the dowel and the mallet will be blown away at high speed, the barrel will likely be bulged or split and the person holding the mallet may be seriously injured.

Jim

why would you assume i'm talking abpout driving the dowel down the bbl?

lets look at this hypothetical scenerio.. you take the dowel and mallet and lightly tap on the charging handle so as not to mar it. consecutive light tapping with a non maring block has always opened sticky bolts for me.

hay better than putting it on the ground and putting my boot on it so it can shoot me... ??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

[Jim K]

Silly old me. I thought the idea of using a dowel would be to insert it into the barrel.

Jim

[JLA]

Id replace the dowel with a dead blow hammer. But most folks dont go to the range with a dead blow hammer. But they always take thier feet. Which is why I have used the foot on the charging handle more than once.. Seriously, put the weapon on safe and step on the bolt, keep the muzzle pointed away, but always be prepared for the worst. Unless you have a mechanical malfuction the bolt will open freeing the stuck round, or the bolt will open when the extractor breaks, either way youll have direct access to the round.

BTW, my only resrvation using dead blow force on bolt components is breakage. It may only take 30 or 40 pounds of force to release the round, hitting it with a hammer can easily exert 3 times that un-necessarily, and the extractor might give up the goose at 50 or 60 pounds of force. This is why i recommend a gradual increase in direct force such as stepping on the charging handle with your foot as opposed to hitting it with a hammer.

[ozo]

Originally Posted by Jim K

Silly old me. I thought the idea of using a dowel would be to insert it into the barrel.

Jim

I knew you knew.......
but I also knew where you were coming from........
We have ALL seen it before.......
and soundguy.....I followed you 100%
[jim, are you beginning 'senior moments'.....]
my wife says she is beginning to see some in me....

[ozo]

My ? is ...where is dmc8163.....
Did he get the round free......or....what...?

[RJay]

His wife is trying to get the stains out of his shirt.

[soundguy]

Originally Posted by JLA

Id replace the dowel with a dead blow hammer.....
BTW, my only resrvation using dead blow force on bolt components is breakage. It may only take 30 or 40 pounds of force to release the round, hitting it with a hammer can easily exert 3 times that un-necessarily, and the extractor might give up the goose at 50 or 60 pounds of force. This is why i recommend a gradual increase in direct force such as stepping on the charging handle with your foot as opposed to hitting it with a hammer.

That's actually why i reccomend the mallet dowel.

using a hammer on the charge handle can still be too much. with the dowel, you can direct force. plus.. I've always found consecutive light tapping motins free up stuff better than home run swings.

For instance.. i restore antique tractors as a hobby. stuff up to 70ys old. I can tell you for sure that if you hit a stuck fastener and you put a breaker bar on it and put a dead pull on it, it will likely shear the bolt. ont he other hand. a small 3/8 impact wrench setting there lightly hammering on the bolt generally vibrates it to start moving a little.. once it moves a little... you've got it by the short hairs.


it's not a function of brute strength.. but of finess and application. same reason i really didn't reccomend a dead blow hammer. again.. it is non maring.. but is still a larger application f force.. just doesn't rebound from a strike. I have a good collection of brass and copepr mauls, dead blow hammers. rubber mallets.. plastic and brass headed mallets as well as peens and other various body hammers.. tack drivers of a few types.. plus the usual framing hammers.

they all got a proper place..

tools at the range? take what ya need. stuck rounds are a reasonable problem. I've always got a mallet and dowel in my range bag. if i'm shooting black powder.. i got stuff to remove the breech plug too, and ball extractors.

gotta be prepaired

no fun going home after 10 minutes because a gun is jambed or fails to battery or fire.

be safe everybody.

[Iron Eagle]

Since I am not familiar with this issue, let me throw this out there. After removing the magazine, is there anyway to disassemble it? maybe something dropped in behind the bolt that is holding it closed.

[dmc8163]

Success! Thanks again.

[soundguy]

what did you do / find? that info being in print may help others with a similar problem down the road.

glad you got it fixed.

[Jim K]

No matter what you do in that situation, big foot, big hammer, tapping or whatever, you take a chance of the gun firing, safety or no safety. That is not likely to happen due to the primer being driven against the breech; it is more likely to happen because efforts to extract the round jar the sear and the hammer/striker falls. The chance of that happening will vary depending on the type of sear engagement, the safety mechanism, and so on, but I would never consider it to be zero unless the gun can be made totally safe by disassembly.

Jim

[JLA]

yep. Its a risk you take with a live one stuck in the chamber.

[permafrost]

Originally Posted by dmc8163

Success! Thanks again.

Damn! ! The least you could do is let us know what fixed it. We're a gun forum ! We find this stuff interesting.

[soundguy]

Originally Posted by JLA

yep. Its a risk you take with a live one stuck in the chamber.

heck.. just choosing to be around guns in the sport, hobby or industry elevates your 'risk' a little... priace we pay.. etc...

[dmc8163]

I'm sorry guys. I used a 3 pound plastic hammer. One sharp blow to the bolt handle did the trick. No unintended firing and no stain. I did discover the pistol was filthy dirty and that contributed to the problem. It also had rust in several locations including the bolt. I bought the pistol at a Gun Show in NC. After cleaning I test fired the gun. First round went off but the second and third rounds did not. Inspection revealed light firing pin marks on both primers. Ordered a couple of boxes of "quality" ammo to see how it works.

[soundguy]

if exterior of bolt was rusty.. imagine the interiro portion with the fire pin.

i'd strip it and clean it before running another round thru it.