.40cal in a 1911 pistol???

[chocoboy]

I read somwhere (not sure if it's in this forum) that .40 cal is not advisable for a 1911 pistol. Something to do with pressure in the chaber. They say that .40cal ammos produce more pressure than the 1911 can handle compared to .45 cals. thus making the round unreliable for self-defense. Please...someone shed some light into this. It would surely be nice to have a Kimber CDP in .40 cal... less recoil n more rounds. Sometime soon... I hope

[tuckerd1]

I'm no expert here, but the 1911 is strong enough to handle pressures much higher than the 45 ACP produces. It is the 45ACP case that is the weak link. The case is not fully supported at the ramp point of the barrel and thus leaves a portion of the case that does not have steel enclosing it. The 45ACP case is too thin to handle very high pressure because of it's wall thickness.

The 45Super, 45SMC are externally the same dimesions of the 45ACP but have thicker walls designed to handle higher pressures. These cases can produce pressures much higher than the 45ACP.

How well the 40 performs in the 1911? Not familiar with it.

[Shooter45]

I have owned several 1911's in .40 cal.

The Para P-16 had a Briley ramped match barrel.

My race gun used a Schumann ramped barrel.

No problems.

The recoil on any 1911 in .40 or .45 is hardly noticable.

BTW, the .40 cal is a reliable self defense round.

[chocoboy]

so why don't they make more kimbers in .40 cal? Why is the .45cal still the preferred caliber? From what i know the .40cal is much much better that the .45 in terms of stopping power. More speed and still has the mass of a good bullet. Well, i could be wrong. Correct me if i am

[45Smashemflat]

Good question to stir up some stuff!!

While you do get a few more rounds in a .40, the .45 still packs a harder punch. Think of it this way, in terms of conservation of energy. If a .40 blows right through a target and barely slows down, it has transmitted no energy to the target other than making a hole. A .45, while slower, has larger frontal area, even if unexpanded, and does a better job of transmitting its energy to the target. Given all the variables governing handgun bullet expansion, I go with the .45 since its bigger than most others before it ever expands. More energy "left in the target" means more effective in my book.

I'm old and crusty when it comes to this, big slow bullets rule....

Just one guys opinion, some of you .40 dudes jump in....

[Xracer]

"Why is the .45cal still the preferred caliber?"

Because .45ACP has been a proven man-stopper for over 90 years. When it comes to handgun stopping power, .45ACP is the standard against which all others are measured.

[gpostal]

yeah ,what x said

[chocoboy]

ok, so are those opinions governed by favoritism towards .45 cal or supported by real facts. Don't u think the .40 cal can and will outperform the .45cal if given more time and opportunity in the self-defense world? I'm not trying to start a holy war on which is better. Just wanna know which cal should my next pistol will be. I already have a P99 in .40cal. I'm planning to buy a new 1911 and was just wondering why only few .40 cal 1911 are out there. Thanks though for all the insights regarding this issue.

chocoboy, In my opinion, it's up to the individual considering the new gun, and it's intended use. There's a lot of factors in the equation. Competition, Combat shooting or strictly personal protection?

I agree the 40S&W is a good round. Generally speaking, it's slower than a 9mm, with more punch value. With that said, as Xracer reiterated... the 45cal, round is time tested and "is the standard against which all others are measured."

The evolution in our local PD's were 38's, 357's. 9mm's, then and now 40S&W.

But, on the fireing line you're liable to see a range of calibers.

As far as KABOOMS (guns blowing apart), you could have possibly read here at TFF, the misfortunes of the GLOCK... certainly NOT the 1911.

[gpostal]

The 9mm which now is looked upon as a weak cal. ,is almost ballisticly the same as a .40 , the .40 is only 1mm larger than the 9mm , the claim to the man stopping power of the .40 cal ,is based only on this 1mm , there is no other scientific reason ,no matter how you debate the two calibers is will always come back to this

Some 9mm's are a bit weaker than the .40 depends on manufacturer; some .40's are a bit higher as well


now with that being understood


the .45 is 5 calibers larger than the .40 ,which would translate into around 2mm

ballisticly the .45 is a bit slower but ,the foot-pounds of energy is equal to the .40 ,but due to the twist of the rifle ,the 2mm larger caliber ,it will expand much larger than both the 9mm and the .40



Now in English

it puts a big freakin hole in whatever it hits

[chocoboy]

Zigzag... Just wondering, why do most of the law enforcement agencies now use .40cal instead of .45cal? Any thoughts on these in law enforcement perspective?

Gpostal... Yup, your post is most convincing Well explained! Thanks... I guess its a .45cal for my next pistol

the added rounds per mag.

[gpostal]

I also think allot of it has to do with marketing, companies market their products with allot of facts and some fiction, with a dash of brainwashing

i remember when the .40 and the 10mm both came out and was in competition for the "new ultimate caliber" , this was at a time that allot of Leos were still carrying wheel guns , high capacity mags where in full swing ,and not even a hint of outlawing them

i also read several articles back then {around mid to late 80's}

"One shot stopping power " between all pistol calibers {excluding the .44 magnum}, according to autopsies and ballistic gels the .357 magnum was the only single shot winner ,followed closely by the .45acp

I have read in the past few years that the .357 magnum is now considered a weak round {lol}

[plunker]

The Spray and pray theory??

Seriously more rounds the better in that profession.

plunker

[45Smashemflat]

Best line ever regarding High Caps -

"How many does that thing hold, boy?"

"13 in the mag and two spares"

"hmm, must plan on missin' a lot."

[Miyagi]

I plan on fitting a 40S&W barrel to my 10mm Kimber. It currently uses a 18# recoil spring. What rate recoil spring would I need for the 40S&W, lead and jacketed???

[Shooter45]

Factory loads will require a 16# to 18# spring. Wolfe Varible Rate springs would work well.

[plunker]

Originally posted by chocoboy
so why don't they make more kimbers in .40 cal? Why is the .45cal still the preferred caliber? From what i know the .40cal is much much better that the .45 in terms of stopping power. More speed and still has the mass of a good bullet. Well, i could be wrong. Correct me if i am

I believe the reason most 1911's are produced in .45 is that it is a traditional cal. in a traditional pistol. Beretta sales pistols in .45, .40 but I bet most of their sales is in 9mm.

I feel after shooting both the 40 and the 45 that the 40 is a flatter shooting round than the .45. This to me makes since since the 45 is bigger and heaver it will lose power and speed before the 40 or the 9mm.

The question is how far out does the round become less effective. At 25 yards you are still hitting close to your poa with good groups. If I have to shoot further than that I can probably get away from them on foot.

I have never shot further than that distance to know the drop in my shots.

plunker

[Artillery Mech]

I could be wrong, but I look at the debate this way; If the 9mm or 40 cal goes through the target, then how much of their energy gets dumped into the target? Both tend to go through their targets, but the 45 tends to remain. Therefore, the .45 ACP and LC dump 100% of their energy into their target. The .45 is aprox 11.45mm compaired to the 9mm's... well... 9mm. Bigger holes make more blood flow! In Somolia, the 9mm drilled holes through the Skinnies. The .45 broke bones and planted them.


Just a thought... Did yall know the military is going back to the .45? The Special Forces and the Marines are back to the 1911 or another pistol for the .45.

[bompa]

Some ones sig line on another forum says it all..

The forty is for the person that is ashamed to carry a nine and can't handle a forty five...

[300mag]

As far as I'm concerned, there's not a darn thing wrong with a .40 caliber 1911. I own an STI Trojan in .40 and it's amazingly accurate and reliable.

However, If I had to choose between a .40 and a .45 for a self-defense weapon, I'd take the .45 without a doubt. The .40 may shoot flatter over long distances (maybe), but long range accuracy usually doesn't matter when it's a life-or-death situation.

[Miyagi]

I have a Kimber 1911 in 10mm which is a higher pressure round than the 45ACP and 40S7W. Matter of fact I just fitted a Barstoe 40S&W barrel to it and have shot a couple of dozen each of jacketed and lead bullets. It's comfortable and accurate. Went to 40 to shoot lead loads, hard to download 10mm below 1000 fps, and brass is cheaper.
Got the Kimber over a Dan Wesson because the barrel is fully supported in their high pressure calibers.
I also have a Para Ordnace in 45ACP and like it also.
My son has a Kimber in 38 super and it's very accurate and comfortable to shoot also.
That's what's so good about the 1911, it's versatile and comfortable to shoot and easy to point.

[Smokin Guns]

Hi Miyagi! I'd say to the other folk "on the fence" try 'em all...then sort them out...

[Woodman]

back to the original pressure question...
my colt double Eagle 40 was a 1911 frame, and built like a brick outhouse. I've read 40 pressure can get up to 40,000 psi, but most saw it is in the 32K range.

The same gun was used to make a 45, a 9mm, a 38 super, and a 10mm.

I'd LOVE to have a Double Eagle in 10mm in the Commander size, or even better, the Officer's, but I doubt it was made that small.