unknown 16g bolt shotgun

[soundguy]

found an old 16ga (i think) shotgun at a gunshow today.

a guy i know from the shows took it in on trade.. seller knew little about it except it had been in his deceased dads collection.. guy at the show did a lil looking and couldn't find any info.

it has what looks like a smaller perhaps english stock. rcvr is hex, bbl is round. is single shot and bolt aftin. safety piece is on rear of bolt and is a big flip nothc lever like some military arms.


has cartouches and proofs ALL over it. I mean.. a crazy amount of proofs all over it.

many parts sport a '55' a few parts sport a 4 digit number.. all the bolt parts have the same 4 digit #.. I think I found a different 4 digit # on it somewhere.

stamped inthe side of the rcvr in slightly irregular spaced stamps is the neame F SMITH perhaps a former owners name.

bbl is long.. 32 or 36" by estination.. like a goose gun.

didn't have time for pics before work but will get some.

has a swivel on the underside of the bbl midway up.

i kow that untill i get some pics that id is virtually impossible.. just seeing if this rings a bell with anybody.

thanks

[soundguy]

ok.. lets hope thes pics come thru.

just got home and got some pics

for reference, overall length of gun is 46.5" from butt to muzzle.

i included a pic with a sks for size reference.. plus may have one with a yard stick in there.

[soundguy]

so far best guees by another user is a conversion of an 1871 mauser rifle.

looks for sure like it could be and bolt turned down.

no grinder marks on the rcvr.. but it doesn't list a date and model where i see pics of other 1871.. odd...

[soundguy]

looking at some auction sites.. i think the bolt for this one.. or perhaps the entire action came from a uraguain model. I say one with a similar (same) turned down bolt handle.

very interesting.

anyone else seen something like this.

conversion was nicely done by whoever did it. .. looks to be a vintage conversion.. not something new.

patina is even over the entire metal surface.

[jack404]

you got a better shot of this ??

under the bolt handle ..

i B&W it to get some depth

[soundguy]

almost looks like 'alah' to me.

i tried to get a better pic unfortunately it is a light mark, and my camera won't focus closer than 4" and much farther out it's too small to see


i was looking at the geha conversions of 98 rifles someone on another forum posted about. we've never seen a 71 done this way.

i'm about to measure the chamber to see if it is 2 9/16

I have a old 30's era i think spanish shotgun with a similar odd ( non 2 3/4 ) chamber.

[jack404]

to me it looks like Cyrillic numerals ( possibly arabic ) , but could be anything really and why i asked

sorruyi think its just under the barrel near the fore stock end , not the bolt ( got hennessy on the brain)

arabic





russian

[soundguy]

has a 2 3/4" chamber.. but that could be a ream job....

[soundguy]

yep.. under bbl, near forend

[jack404]

16 G 2 3/4 would put it as a belgium at the age .. was pretty much the standard 16G then

[soundguy]

i wonder how hard it would have been for a mauser 1871 that appears to have a bolt from a uragway model to have made it to belgium for a shotgun conversion..

[Twicepop]

Unable to open any of the pictures, but from the description it sound like one of the conversions made from surrendered WW1 German military rifles. The Treaty of Versailles after the first world war, forbade the German people of owning/having rifled weapons. Many of the Model 98 miltary rifles were converted to single shot shotguns in both 12 and 16 gauge. Several of these were sold on the world market, many landed in the hands of the German people, and many were taken as war trophies after the second world war. Several names were put on them, but the only that comes to mind right now is GeHa, could be you have one of the after war conversions.

those who beat their guns into plowshares, will plow for thse who didn't

[soundguy]

i've hear dof 98's being converted.. didn't realize the 71's were as well.

[jack404]

9467 in arabic ?

[soundguy]

i'll rub some white crayon over that number tonight and try to get a better pic.

[jack404]

good thinkin !

[soundguy]

here they is..









1st character looks like a capital A with no cross piece

2nd character looks like a deformed capital L witht he bottom piece angled up

3rd character to me looks like a lowercase a with a dot over it.

4th character looks like a lowercase h with perhaps a dot over the top right of it.. though that may be a metal imperfection.

just relating a visual description.. i realize it is probably a different characterset.. etc.

[jack404]

confusing eh ..

[Jim K]

A perfectly ordinary Model 1871 Mauser converted to a 16 gauge shotgun in Belgium and sold at one time by Albrecht Kind GmbH, otherwise known by the trademark Akah.

Jim

[jack404]

100% cheers

[soundguy]

Originally Posted by Jim K

A perfectly ordinary Model 1871 Mauser converted to a 16 gauge shotgun in Belgium and sold at one time by Albrecht Kind GmbH, otherwise known by the trademark Akah.

Jim

thanks for the info.. never heard of him.. got any links or a time frame that these conversions were done?

as said.. i've hear dof 98 conversions..e tc..

thanks again

( google does show links for soma akah trademark stuff and a modern website.. however.. this doesn't look to be a modern conversion.. has akah been doing this sort of thing for?? years? )

[racefanTX]

Superb info is available in these kind of boards. Many thanks guys.

[soundguy]

still looking for info... any idea as to when this type of conversion might have been done? early 1900's after wwi?

can i assume akah was the importer.. and not the converter?

thanks

[Jim K]

Albrecht Kind Gmbh (AKAH) has been in business since 1853 and is very much in business today. You can check their web site at www.akah.de for current products.*

AKAH is the largest gun, hunting, and outdoor goods wholesale/retail business in Germany. They are not manufacturers, though they have goods specially made and marked for them. So, that conversion could have been done any time from the point where the Model 1871 was taken out of service (1884 - 1888) and the end of WWII, but it is likely that the range was from c. 1890 to post-WWI. The conversion itself was apparently done in Liege, based on a Liege proof on the gun. The AKAH marking could mean the work was done for AKAH or only that they retailed the gun at some point.

Not the first time that an AKAH (or Akah) marking resulted in confusion. Holsters sold by AKAH often turn up with GI bringback pistols, and one collector reported frustration at not being able to find a Nazi organization by that name! (AKAH doesn't seem to show up in the German ordnance manufacturers' code list, not surprising since they didn't manufacture anything. Their holsters were private purchases.)

*If you use the English translator, be aware that the word "Kind" in German means "child", so the name is translated that way!

Jim

[soundguy]

interesting info, thanks. yep.. I had seen their site.. didn't realize they had been around that long.

so, in short.. if could have been a custom conversion they ordered.. but more likely was an earlier conversion and they were the retailer.. etc..

for future reference and my notes, which proof on her denoted Liege.

thanks