.243 or .308?

[BlackEagle]

A Browning Lever Action Rifle is on my shopping list. Two are advertised, one in .243, the other in .308, same price.

What are the advantages of one caliber over the other?

I'm guessing reloading will cost less for the .243.

What about range? Our club shoots out as far as 600 yards on occasion, but most competitions are in the 100-300 yard range.

I don't have much occasion for hunting at this point, but that could change. If I were to hunt it would be mostly deer and fox.

Thanks for any pointers/advice.

[carver]

Either caliber should work just fine! Both will shoot 600yds, with accuracy, if you do your part. When I purchase a new gun I ask myself if it is a good caliber for SD, since I might have a need for such in the near future! But that's just me!

[hardluk1]

243 will be 4 dollars ahundred cheaper to load than the 308 useing a sierra gameking as a bullet choice. Brass is cheaper for 308 .

Both cartidges are arecapible out to 600 rounds but the 243 is harder on barrel throats.

You should not expect to much at 600 yards from the browning lever rifle. But for fun its fine.

You would be way better off picking a bolt rifle for both long range shooting and some hunting that may come along. Also depending on rifle make a 260 or 6.5x55 would make for a better long range cartidge than ether.

For less money than the BLR you can buy a tikka t-3 rifle or a number of bolt rifles for the same or less money.

[bobski]

round nose bullets to 600yds?
am i missing something?

[blackhawk44]

Round nosed bullet? Topic is .308 (7.62mm), not .30-30. Inside 400 yards (a more realistic ability of most shooters) the difference between cartidges is nil with any advantage going to .308 for its variety of commercial loads (especially for medium game).

[carver]

I forgot he stated 'lever gun'. My mistake! Lever guns are not going to get you much out past 200 -250 yards.

[3/2 STA SS]

I am a .308 Bolt action man myself...Lever action I would stick with the tried and true .30-.30.

[bntyhntr6975]

Originally Posted by 3/2 STA SS

I am a .308 Bolt action man myself...Lever action I would stick with the tried and true .30-.30.

Yep.

[BlackEagle]

Many thanks for the replies, guys.

If I were still in the US I would have a Winchester 30-30 built around 1920 or so. My brother has it; it will stay in the family as long as possible. I just can't get it shipped over here.

The BLR has a removable box magazine which allows for a variety of bullets.

I have a bolt-action Styer Elite .223 that does a good job at 100-200 yards, sub-moa groups with 69 gr. SMK. Everyone else in the club has bolt action rifles; I was thinking it would be nice to be a little different.

Is bolt-action that much more accurate/precise than lever action?

I have visions of a bipod suppporting the BLR.

Thanks again.

[zkovach]

I'd take the 308 u can get any ammo anywhere for it

[cycloneman]

Originally Posted by BlackEagle

Many thanks for the replies, guys.

If I were still in the US I would have a Winchester 30-30 built around 1920 or so. My brother has it; it will stay in the family as long as possible. I just can't get it shipped over here.

The BLR has a removable box magazine which allows for a variety of bullets.

I have a bolt-action Styer Elite .223 that does a good job at 100-200 yards, sub-moa groups with 69 gr. SMK. Everyone else in the club has bolt action rifles; I was thinking it would be nice to be a little different.

Is bolt-action that much more accurate/precise than lever action?

I have visions of a bipod suppporting the BLR.

Thanks again.

You just opened up a can of worms. Bolt action. Here ya go.


http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/models/ Look at the mdl 12's

That rifle will shoot hornady superformance ammo around 3000 fps. Mabybe a tad bit more. In 308. 165gr

Yep if you are thinking about looking into a bolt action you certainly opened up a can of worms. Stand back your gonna get some suggestions now.

The 6" more bbl will get your there a tad bit more easy. Heavy gun tho. I have one and I love it. Nothing around me is safe 600 yrds in any direction.
Out the box you cant beat it.

now as far as what cal?

Lets see what would you want for paper punching?
What would you want for hunting?
What would you use for defending the constitution?
What would you want to defend your life?
See if that helps you make up your mind.

[LDBennett]

A couple of things:

First is a story of a co-worker who was born and raised on the east coast. He literally could walk across the street from his home and go deer hunting. Growing up he had a 243 Browning Lever Rifle (BLR). Under the pressure of "macho friends" he later sold it and bought a 308 BLR. He loved it in 243 and hated it in 308 because of the recoil. So take note: the 308 BLR recoils more than the 243 BLR.

Secondly, putting the BLR in the same league as a Winchester or Marlin lever gun is not correct. The BLR has a rotating bolt. That means the bolt is locked directly to the barrel when closed. Winchesters and Marlins use a block in the back of the receiver to hold the bolt closed. Consequently the receiver's thin walls are used to help keep the bolt locked closed. This is a much weaker action design and accuracy suffers especially at longer ranges.

The bottom line is the BLR is a turn bolt gun that happens to operate its bolt with a lever instead of a protrusion on the bolt itself. It has the potential of being as accurate as most bolt guns. The BLR's are a short barreled gun so the velocities are less and the ballistics are different between a same caliber bolt gun and the BLR if the bolt gun has the normal length barrel (24 inch whereas the BLR I believe is a 20 inch barrel).

Shooting at 600 yds is not easy and any gun will not shoot 100% "X's" at that range. But I have shot military guns with open sights out to 400 yd steel target with very good results and modern and military guns with scopes to 600 yards and beyond with acceptable results. I see no reason a BLR could not be used occasionally at 600 yds with acceptable results. At that range it is more the shooter than the gun.

LDBennett

[jack404]

hear hear !! well said LD

[LDBennett]

Talking about long range shooting, the range we use to shoot at had metal targets to 600 yds and a couple at 800 yds. We loved to shot there and only ever shot at the metal targets.

My son-in-law (my shooting buddy) once went to the range without me. A guy known to us for his bragging, showed up with a modern scoped hunting rifle and was having an awful time hitting things with it. He muttered to my son-in-law that it must be the ammo he was using (over the counter modern ammo). He remarked that my son-in-law was doing much better than he was. My son-in-law offered that he was shooting a 70 year old Mauser with open sights out to over 400 yds with 1940's surplus ammo. The guy was obviously distressed at that answer and left.

We no longer go to that range or belong to that club because they got religion about steel cored surplus ammo and no longer allow its use. They were upset at the damage to their steel targets, some of which we provided! They justified the ban on surplus steel cored ammo as a "fire hazard". In fact, there had only been one fire at that range when perhaps 30% of the rifle ammo fired at that range was surplus ammo. That fire was caused by a 50 BMG which probably did not belong being fired there anyway. Oh Well, such is life.

LDBennett

[BlackEagle]

LD thanks for taking time to answer, and for the info. From what you are saying it sounds like I should go for the BLR in .243.

I would plan on reloading from the get-go; I've always been happy with my reloads and being able to tailor the ammo to the gun. Load development is part of the fun for me. I also like the price of reloads.

Your son in law's experience makes me think of the old addage that a poor workman blames his tools. Sounds like your son in law is a pretty good marksman.

[3/2 STA SS]

I am sorry BlackEagle....I did not realize you were in the UK.

[BlackEagle]

No problems. Appreciate your response.

This is primarily a US forum, and because I have roots in the US I'm more interested in threads here than many other "foreigners" might be.

Enjoy your 2nd Ammendment rights and do everything you can to preserve them.

[gun runner]

Originally Posted by 3/2 STA SS

I am a .308 Bolt action man myself...Lever action I would stick with the tried and true .30-.30.

Agreed!

[aa1911]

FWIW at this point, .308 would be my own first choice over it's necked down cousin. So many options of ammo for one thing.

As for long distance, either will do fine. Guys are still shooting hi-pwr service rifle with .223 and iron sights out to 1000 yards with plenty of accuracy. (energy left at that distance, not so much...)

[soundguy]

Originally Posted by BlackEagle

A Browning Lever Action Rifle is on my shopping list. Two are advertised, one in .243, the other in .308, same price.

What are the advantages of one caliber over the other?

I'm guessing reloading will cost less for the .243.

.

relaoding costs will be virtually the same. primers are both gonna be 3-5 cents each.. the powder charge wil be pennies different in loads when you figure powder is 23-30$ a pound. new win brass for 308 and 243 are virtually smae price..and if you are buying factory (walmart? ) boxed rifle ammo to start your brass collection.. figure on about the same price for a box of 243 vs 308

that leaves projectiles. again.. a dollar or 2 cheaper on a vox of 100 so a couple cents per projectile difference. per laod you might see a nickle difference??

if you relaod other 30 cal stuff.. like 306, etc.. i'd get the 308 vs the 6mm ( get both and then reload both.. )

[BlackEagle]

Thanks again, guys.

Just FYI...

The UK gun licensing laws dictate pretty carefully what guns I can have. When I first applied for my license I asked for a range of guns, trying to cover all the bases. I asked for, and got, permission to have a .22, .357, .223, .243, .308 rifle and a .44 black powder revolver. I've been filling my license over the years; so far I have the .22, .357 and .223 and the black powder revolver. If I want to add anything else I need to send my fire arms certificate in with a £25 administration fee for a variance. Processing this on a good day takes about a week. Then I can get my new gun. I can request a switch, for no extra charge.

So, at this point, I can get a .243 and .308. However, I would like to get another .22, so if, for example, I send the form in with a request to exchange the .308 for a .22, I won't have to pay anything extra.

I got a moderator/silencer with my .223 and had to get that added to the certificate, for £25. I could pick up the gun, but had to leave the silencer until the new certificate came through.

I have an understanding firearms officer, who gave me relatively generous ammunition allowances. I can have up to 1500 .22's and up to 500 of the other calibers. He gave me the larger .22 allowance after I found out I could get a price break for 1000 rounds.

I am allowed to target shoot only at this point, until I can find a farmer or someone who will let me hunt his property. Then he needs to send a letter to the police, they inspect the property, and tell me what guns I can use to hunt on that property. Whenever I buy ammo I need to have it registered on my certificate, and the store keeps a record of that sale, to go to the police. Reloads: a little more flexibility, but I keep a diary to show the police whenever they come around to inspect how much of what I have been reloading.

They check my shooting frequency because I've logged in at the range every time I shoot, and this justifies my having the guns I have.

Guys, don't let them take your second ammendment rights away.

[soundguy]

wow.... I'm glad I live in a place with a 2nd amendment. if someone told me how much ammo I could own.. it migth be time for a change of govt.

good luck to you! be safe and have fun!

[aa1911]

holy camoly, no kidding! At least that side of the pond seems to actually prefer folks using suppressors versus here where everyone thinks you're an assassin if you have one.

Thanks for the info, always interesting to hear how it is in different places; puts what we have into perspective and why we should keep our rights!

[soundguy]

yes, good post!

[Deacon_Man]

Great post.