The Bible regarding life at conception

[45Auto]

Some of you guys know your Bible extremely well. So, maybe you can help me out with this.

Does anyone know the passage or passages of the Bible which state that 'life begins at conception?'

Thanks.

[jack404]

i've never found those words

but i have found these

top one is pretty specific

Psalm 139:16- Here David is speaking when he says to God, "Your eyes saw even the embryo of me, And in your book all its parts were down in writing." Notice he said ME. He was person, not just some mass of tissue.

Job 3:3- ‘An able-bodied man has been conceived!’ Job says an "able-bodied man" is conceived. Not some cells. Not a non-living thing, a person. thats the point of conception argument i have ..

Exodus 21:22, 23- "In case men should struggle with each other and they really hurt a pregnant woman and her children do come out but no fatal accident occurs, he is to have damages imposed upon him without fail according to what the owner of the woman may lay upon him; and he must give it through the justices. But if a fatal accident should occur, then you must give soul for soul"

That soul is the unborn child. If a man were to kill that child he had to pay with his own soul.

so under the law then a unborn child ( without distinction of age ) was a person ..

hope this helps

[carver]

Great post Jack! You nailed it!

[45Auto]

You have an enviable knowledge of the scriptures, Jack. Thank you. Though the passages quoted are not as specific as one might like, the implications drawn from them are reasonable.

A related historical issue is the old Common Law "born alive rule." If a pregnant woman was beaten and her child was still born it was not murder, but if the child was born alive before it died of the injury inflicted a charge of murder could be brought. This ancient doctrine is still the law in many common law jurisdictions. This rule has always been something of a puzzle, given how religious and conservative the old British judges tended to be back then.

[jack404]

I'd hoped terry would drop in thers some awful long references a section at a time they dont say much but build a patter , i'll dig it up as i remember it

a rule number XXX type book would be easier eh ..

as for born alive , i'm of the opinion anyone beating a pregnant woman for anything is liable for anything the public throws at them , including maces axes and moving vehicles

[bobski]

when mary (carrying jesus in her womb,) visited elizabeth, (who was carrying john the baptist in her own womb,) john lept at the sound of the greeting, knowing jesus was near.

[bakerconch]

Jeremiah 1:5 " Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart, I appointed you as a prophet to the nations."

If you believe that Almighty God is the same today as he always was, and he says that he knew Jeremiah even before he was formed in the womb, then I say He knew us all, and what would become of us, even before conception. So to the question, does life begin at conception, for me is YES!

[ampaterry]

You all have it covered, guys -

Bobski has used my favorite passage for this:


Luke 1:39-44 (KJV)
39 And Mary arose in those days, and went into the hill country with haste, into a city of Juda;
40 And entered into the house of Zacharias, and saluted Elisabeth.
41 And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:
42 And she spake out with a loud voice, and said, Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.
43 And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?
44 For, lo, as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in mine ears, the babe leaped in my womb for joy.

The Baby, in the womb, recognizes and is joyed by the presence of Jesus, in another womb.

Sounds like not only a living being, but one with spiritual discernment -

[sub-moa]

"An embryo is an individual, no matter how small.
When the embryo receives cells from the mother and the father,
it is neither the mother nor the father."


"It is I who bring both death and life."
Deuteronomy 32:39

[Iron Eagle]

Originally Posted by 45Auto

Some of you guys know your Bible extremely well. So, maybe you can help me out with this.

Does anyone know the passage or passages of the Bible which state that 'life begins at conception?'

Thanks.

It is possible that you might find it in another translation, like the New Living translation. Don't hold me to that. The King Jimmy doesn't have that anywhere.

[Bobitis]

I'm not as well versed as others here, but my persoanl opinion is:

Sperm has life bearing abilities, as does the egg. One in itself is merely an organism.

When the two are combined and new cells are created, you have life.
The cells split into more of the same, and you have a growing 'thing'.

What amazes me is how we choose to differentiate between what is viable and what is not.

The lady that lives below me has a daughter that is wheelchair bound.
One guy I work with has a son that is wheelchair bound.

If ya talk to either one of them, they have NO regrets of the children that were given to them. Note: Given to them.

Sorry for rambling but my 1st was lost in a misscariage. I never had the chance to meet him/her. My son... I would gladly die for.

My opinion is life starts at the 1st cells creation.

It's not Biblical, but it's my belief.

Carry on.

[RunningOnMT]

+1 Bob. Those justifying abortion by claiming the fetus is not a real live human being have a problem explaing just when life does begin. If not at conception, is it at a week, a month, three months, six? What everyone must acknowledge is that at birth a human being and a citizen is born, with all the legal rights guaranteed by the constitution. If 2 minutes after birth someone should strangle a baby, the charge is murder. But at 2 minutes before natural birth when the babies head is crowning, an abortionist can ram forceps into it's brain and get away with it. This unspeakably evil act is sanctioned by our government, and our law. What must God think of those who would so casually take the life that He has given.

[Goose Springsteen]

Hey guys!

I actually stumbled on this forum researching the strengths and weaknesses of the Lancaster Bomber as compared to the B-17 but I noticed this religious section and I hope that even though I am a socialist, european, baby eating atheist I'd be able to throw my own perspective into this forum because it seems like it is on the grander scale somewhat lacking in regards to a diversity of opinion .

Now this is a topic I've seen before on other forums and one thing I think that should be brought up more often is the fact that the Bible itself seems to make a clear distinction between the status of what you might refer to as a normal human being and the unborn fetus.

Exodus 21:22-25, reads:

"When men strive together, and hurt a woman with child, so that there is miscarriage, and yet no harm follows, the one who hurt her shall be fined according as the woman's husband shall lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. If any harm follows, then you shall give life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, stripe for stripe."

Here very clearly you can see that the miscarriage of the fetus results in the payment whereas the other could be punishable by death.

Personally speaking whilst I don't relish in the unfortunate thing which is abortion I think that it is by far the lesser of two ills to have it legal than illegal. The important thing to remember is that when abortion was illegal it didn't stop women from having them it just made them more dangerous because you had it done in a back alley.

[red14]

My first child was a miscarraige, I am a Junior, he would have been the third.
My second grandson was born almost 6 weeks premature. He weighed 4lbs
12ounces. My grandfather was so small (also premature), he was kept in a
shoebox for 4 months. To think that both of them could have been legally
aborted is beyond my comprehension.

Tim Tebow's mother was told he would have massive problems and she was
coaxed to abort him. I guess two national titles, one Heisman trophy and
first round pick of the NFL draft proved she made the right decision.

[45Auto]

To sum it up, it looks like the Bible does not give a clear-cut answer as to the question of when life begins. In my opinion, no one was able to nail this one down.

Men and women can read the Bible and make presumptions and extrapolations from this or that passage and claim that it means one thing or the other. Many of these presumptions are reasonable, but these interpretations are not the word of God and are thus subject to human error.

Even without a clear Biblical answer, strong opinions are held as to when life begins.

[sub-moa]

Doesn't seem all that complicated to me.
Let us, for the sake of simplicity, disregard the medical community’s ability to extend life both in the very young and the very old and just look at God given life. Since there seems to be no great debate on when a human is dead; no signs of non-assisted bodily functions such as respirations, heartbeat, brain activity, organ function, cellular division etc. We usually agree that that person dead. Most humans will then refer to this human a corpse. Until this last physiological state even if this person can no longer walk, talk, see, or communicate in any way with other humans and cannot exist and is totally dependant on other humans he/she still is a human life. The change in physiological state does not change what that human being was in the former state. In the case of the majority of full term survivorship, he was formerly an elderly human. Pryor to that he was a middle aged human, and before that he would have been an adolescent human and then a human child, then a human baby, then a human embryo, then human fetus and lastly a human zygote. Each of these stages in physiology does not make the person a non human. Once again:
An embryo is an individual, no matter how small.
When the embryo receives cells from the mother and the father,
it is neither the mother nor the father

[ampaterry]

Originally Posted by 45Auto

To sum it up, it looks like the Bible does not give a clear-cut answer as to the question of when life begins. In my opinion, no one was able to nail this one down.

Men and women can read the Bible and make presumptions and extrapolations from this or that passage and claim that it means one thing or the other. Many of these presumptions are reasonable, but these interpretations are not the word of God and are thus subject to human error.

Even without a clear Biblical answer, strong opinions are held as to when life begins.

You are right; the Bible does not specifically name a time between the reproductive act and birth at which this becomes a human being.
But it certainly does give sufficient evidence - such as the Fetal John recognizing the fetal Jesus - that this is a human life with human emotions at the very least SOME months before birth.
Since we KNOW it is murder at some point prior to birth, and we have no concrete evidence that there is a point at which it is NOT murder, our direction is pretty clear.

[RunningOnMT]

It seems to me that regardless of whether the Bible says specifically when human life begins, it should be self evident to a thinking person, when that is. Think about it, we have two living things, a womans egg and a mans sperm cell. All that's necessary for human life is for the two to meet. If there isn't human life at that point, there never will be.

EX NIHILO, NIHIL FIT

[45Auto]

Originally Posted by ampaterry

You are right; the Bible does not specifically name a time between the reproductive act and birth at which this becomes a human being.
But it certainly does give sufficient evidence - such as the Fetal John recognizing the fetal Jesus - that this is a human life with human emotions at the very least SOME months before birth.

Even in the fetal state the Son of God and John the Baptist are examples of extra special individuals. This is one of several Biblical passage providing testimony of the extraordinary and miraculous nature of Jesus. While it's reasonable to make an extrapolation from this passage, in fact we are making a comparision of Devine beings with ordinary people. An interpretation of the Bible even by an inteligent man is not the same as the word of God.

And so it is that we imperfect men and women must proceed with humility and caution regarding a question which the Bible has not answerd.

[tcox4freedom]

Originally Posted by RunningOnMT

It seems to me that regardless of whether the Bible says specifically when human life begins, it should be self evident to a thinking person, when that is. Think about it, we have two living things, a womans egg and a mans sperm cell. All that's necessary for human life is for the two to meet. If there isn't human life at that point, there never will be.

EX NIHILO, NIHIL FIT

^^^THIS^^^

Perhaps God realized that HIS people would have the "wisdom" to understand what is "implied" in HIS Word.

Personally, I think with those whom are called by HIS name, there is little need for a "direct" answer. (Faith is enough)

IMHO;
It is only the ones that lack "FAITH" and have NOT yet accepted or met the "Spirit of TRUTH" who have difficulty in this particular understanding.

The Bible is quite literally full of implications that we were known of God well before we were born. One either believes this or they do not.

I can not see how anyone can believe they were known by God before they were born and NOT believe that your "physical" life began at the time of your conception.

To those that have yet to grasp this TRUTH, I suggest a time of prayer & devotion to the FATHER. Ask him to fill you with the "Spirit of TRUTH"; so you will know & understand your LIFE has ALWAYS been in the hands of GOD!

John 14:15-21 (KJV)
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

John 16:13-15 (KJV)
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

-

[sub-moa]

Since we KNOW it is murder at some point prior to birth, and we have no concrete evidence that there is a point at which it is NOT murder, our direction is pretty clear.[ampaterry]

My Granddad used to tell me "Ifyou need to ask yourself if something is wrong, it probably is."

[tcox4freedom]

Originally Posted by sub-moa

Since we KNOW it is murder at some point prior to birth, and we have no concrete evidence that there is a point at which it is NOT murder, our direction is pretty clear.[ampaterry]

My Granddad used to tell me "Ifyou need to ask yourself if something is wrong, it probably is."

Your granddad sounds like he was a wise man.

[sub-moa]

Very; and sadly they seem to be few and far between these days.

[45Auto]

In general, abortion is wrong. We know this as a gut feeling.

The Bible is not clear as to when a human life begins. We can argue about that.

The Bible does not say that abortion is a sin. Though we know it's wrong.

So, when should the Govt. have the power to step in and make it illegal?

As I understand it, the Supreme Ct. looked at the three trimesters and said that a woman has her choice in the first trimester. The Govt. can say "no" to abortions in the third. I'm not sure about the 2nd trimester. In any case, it seems that giving people the freedom of choice in the first and maybe the second trimester is a reasonable compromise given that the Bible does not say that life begins at conception.

[RunningOnMT]

45 Auto, I hate to be abrupt, but what part of "Thou shalt not kill" (murder), don't you understand. You keep dancing around this same theme of biblical ambiguity. THERE IS NO AMBIGUITY. Abortion is muder.

The government should have already stepped in because abortion denies the constitutional rights to a human being. Sorry, there is no "reasonable" compromise. The constitution isn't a procedure for compromise.

Now we can keep going round and round on this issue, but every time you post something like this, you are going to get the same replies.