Jew,Christian, Mormon, a childs question

[ampaterry]

If you don't have enough faith in God's protection to handle rattlesnakes and drink draino, you ain't a Christian.
And I have scripture for that, too:
Mark 16:17-18 (KJV)
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.


As I said; Jesus Christ is the judge - not me, not you.

[RYANINMICHIGAN]

I am not judging anyone.

[KenV]

Originally Posted by jack404

KenV , you get this much ?

ALL the *#$! time, and not just in some obscure web forum. Even the major media jumps on this bandwagon. For example, Romney's "not a Christian" either.

And the folks that declare Mormons to be "not-Christian"? These folks will insist they are "not judging" and "not standing on higher moral ground", while simultaneously smugly declaring millions of people to be damned to hell fire for all eternity.

[jack404]

yeah thats gotta suck

i'm reminded of hans faust a civil servant in wartime germany say how he did not judge or condem anyone , jews had to be wiped out and so he helped , just following instructions ...

hans woke up one day facing a russian who decided germans where the latest sub class took him 20 years to get home

see they never see the wrong until its done against them , then they play the victim and still its not their fault

they dont judge , they just help wipe out as many as they can

and i thought i copped it tough for being hunter who makes his own hootch ( not a Christian if you hunt and give meat away on the sabbath and definately not a Chrsitian cause i have a still , and it varies if i'm a Christian cause i'm a veteran , some say yes some say not possible )

but i am a bit outside the mainstream

But you folks heck .. seen enough here in the past couple years to get a real wake up

here in the bush mormons are regarded like salvation army

a general high level of respect for who they be and what they do and who they help

so this is a bit new to me , and frankly rather disturbing that its so prevalent

but i know i'll never see these folks who are against you out in the deep dessert here or weird backwaters somewhere where i think the only white fella for miles is me and lo and behold i run into some Mormon doc or health worker helping out some folks out in the real boonies

dont stop eh!

cause you'll be surprising a heap ( and pissing off a heap ) come Glory

and i'm all for a big stir and upset of those who know so much

[targetacqmgt]

Originally Posted by RunningOnMT

I can't get into this the way I'd like. Let me just say that many "good" people are on their way to hell. Salvation is not by works, and only comes by faith in the only begotten Son of God, Jesus Christ. Anyone who claims to be a follower of Christ but denies His deity, believes in another Christ and another gospel, and are cursed. I am not judging here; they are already judged.

I do not wish to offend anyone. I know there are many faiths represented on this forum, including non believers. This is just what I believe, and I can do nothing other than speak the truth as I understand it. This is not narrow mindedness. All religions can't be true, and separate realities are fiction. There is only one truth.

What?? LDS do NOT believe in another "christ" We believe in the same one you do- the one who sweat blood for all of our sins in the "Garden" and died on the cross. We believe in the God the Father that you do. We also study the KJV deliegnetly in sunday school. KJV book 1 says "out the mouth of two witnesses shall all things be proved." The Book of Mormon is simply the second witness to our saviors mission to the world-no more or no less. Just saying.

[RYANINMICHIGAN]

What are the beliefs of Mormons on Lutherans? I do not believe the book of Mormon is scripture. I don't believe in salvation by acts either. I drink and hunt and fight when need be. Do I get to go to heaven?

[jack404]

Ryan , i'm told i'm not a Christian cause i fight the islamists here , cause i defend gun rights and only know how to defend myself when attacked , not how to run away

all these things some folks say make me not a Christian , but Christ says different

i trust what He says , and He says we should not judge ,

now if you dont beleive in Salvation by acts

the act of submission to Christ dont count ?

we're all screwed if so eh ..

oh Lutherans and Mormons run the outback visitation scheme , folks visit folks who are a bit remote and drop in to check they are ok

seems to be working pretty well actually

methodists used to run a similar scheme but pulled it a decade or so ago and stick within easy reach of towns and such

C of E stopped in the 70's

so now just a few Methodist hard core folks Lutherans Salvation Army and Mormons and whack jobs like me

[targetacqmgt]

Originally Posted by ampaterry

If you don't have enough faith in God's protection to handle rattlesnakes and drink draino, you ain't a Christian.
And I have scripture for that, too:
Mark 16:17-18 (KJV)
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.


As I said; Jesus Christ is the judge - not me, not you.

What he said

[targetacqmgt]

Originally Posted by RYANINMICHIGAN

What are the beliefs of Mormons on Lutherans? I do not believe the book of Mormon is scripture. I don't believe in salvation by acts either. I drink and hunt and fight when need be. Do I get to go to heaven?

Do you love your family? Are you kind to your wife and children? When we ALL stand before the judgement seat of Chirst and the book of life is opened on each of us the "good" will be weighed against any "evil" -we have not repented of. This is key to all basic Christians Luthern Catholics Baptists LDS etc. AND why Christ bled in the Garden taking ALL of mankinds sins on to him past present and future so we maybe "washed clean" at the last day thru repentance. Sometimes I think about some of my actions in my life and understanding that I personally put some of that pain endured on the Garden and on thee Cross- well I do not feel so good and try to do better. Just saying

[targetacqmgt]

Originally Posted by KenV

I'm a Mormon and I'll be happy to answer. My personal savior is Jesus Christ.

For the record, Mormons believe that Jesus worked his atonement for all of mankind in Gethsemane, on the cross, in the tomb, and with his resurection. Because of his atonement, and ONLY through his atonement all mankind may be saved from the effects of mortality, which include death and sin.

In summary, I and almost all Mormons believe the following concerning Jesus Christ:
1. He was was born of a virgin named Mary, wife to Joseph, in Bethlehem of Judeah.
2. He grew to manhood in Galilee
3. He was baptized by John, the son of Zechariah
4. He preached for three years, performing numerous miracles during his ministry.
5. He organized a church, led by 12 apostles whom he personally ordained.
6. He suffered for the sins of all mankind in the Garden of Gethsemane
7. He was arrested and tried by the Sanhedrin and given to the Romans to be crucified
8. He was He rose on the third day after his crucifixion
9. After his crucifixion he appeared to Mary, his apostles, and to many others
10. After many days he ascended to heaven promising to return in glory

So what part of the above makes Mormons not "true" Christians?

Well Done KenV

[jack404]

Originally Posted by targetacqmgt

Sometimes I think about some of my actions in my life and understanding that I personally put some of that pain endured on the Garden and on thee Cross- well I do not feel so good and try to do better. Just saying

know that story well , makes you wonder how really cool He is eh , after all i've been a dead set mongrel at times .. to friend and foe .. and still he will allow a rat bag like me to get a shot at the greatest gift ever ..

If thats not a great bloke i dunno what is ..

and after all the crap stunts i've pulled

Guess you really have to be God to have that much compassion eh ..

[targetacqmgt]

Originally Posted by jack404

know that story well , makes you wonder how really cool He is eh , after all i've been a dead set mongrel at times .. to friend and foe .. and still he will allow a rat bag like me to get a shot at the greatest gift ever ..

If thats not a great bloke i dunno what is ..

and after all the crap stunts i've pulled

Guess you really have to be God to have that much compassion eh ..

Yup Father loves ALL his children even us bad boys which is why he gave us free choice and a chance to change SOME of our really bad habits. Good on ya mate!!

[KenV]

Originally Posted by RunningOnMT

I can't get into this the way I'd like. Let me just say that many "good" people are on their way to hell. Salvation is not by works, and only comes by faith in the only begotten Son of God, Jesus Christ. Anyone who claims to be a follower of Christ but denies His deity, believes in another Christ and another gospel, and are cursed. I am not judging here; they are already judged.

Hmmmm. You're "not judging here", but you have decided that Mormons are "good people on their way to hell".

I do not wish to offend anyone. I know there are many faiths represented on this forum, including non believers. This is just what I believe, and I can do nothing other than speak the truth as I understand it. This is not narrow mindedness. All religions can't be true, and separate realities are fiction. There is only one truth.

I see. And when you "speak the truth" about Mormons it is is based on your judgment that Mormons "deny Christ's diety", believe "in another Christ", and/or believe "in another gospel" And you make this judgment and declare that Mormons "are cursed" while knowing little or nothing about Mormon doctrine/theology. And yet this is "not judging" and not "narrow mindedness". Uh huh. I hear you.

If the above is NOT judging, then please define judging.

If making judgments about others you know little about and then declaring them "cursed" is NOT narrow mindedness, please define narrow mindedness.

[WHSmithIV]

Neither my wife or I agree with the book of Mormon either and we live in a predominately Mormon area of the country. However, I have the comfortable feeling that Mitt Romney does have the good of the nation in his heart unlike the usurper currently in office. We are a country that has Freedom of Religion and the Mormon church does do a lot of good for humanity. When asked if I would be willing to help in their cannery I was happy to do so. Mormons are certainly good Christians. Most Christian churches in fact try to do good. Don't recall ever hearing of a Mosque donating food or money to help Christians though.

That was a very good way of explaining the difference to a child.

[76Highboy]

Originally Posted by KenV

I'm a Mormon and I'll be happy to answer. My personal savior is Jesus Christ.

For the record, Mormons believe that Jesus worked his atonement for all of mankind in Gethsemane, on the cross, in the tomb, and with his resurection. Because of his atonement, and ONLY through his atonement all mankind may be saved from the effects of mortality, which include death and sin.

In summary, I and almost all Mormons believe the following concerning Jesus Christ:
1. He was was born of a virgin named Mary, wife to Joseph, in Bethlehem of Judeah.
2. He grew to manhood in Galilee
3. He was baptized by John, the son of Zechariah
4. He preached for three years, performing numerous miracles during his ministry.
5. He organized a church, led by 12 apostles whom he personally ordained.
6. He suffered for the sins of all mankind in the Garden of Gethsemane
7. He was arrested and tried by the Sanhedrin and given to the Romans to be crucified
8. He was He rose on the third day after his crucifixion
9. After his crucifixion he appeared to Mary, his apostles, and to many others
10. After many days he ascended to heaven promising to return in glory

So what part of the above makes Mormons not "true" Christians?

So what saves us? Is it the good deeds we do?

[jack404]

Originally Posted by 76Highboy
So what saves us? Is it the good deeds we do?

i thought this covered it Highboy ..

Originally Posted by KenV
I'm a Mormon and I'll be happy to answer. My personal savior is Jesus Christ.

[KenV]

Originally Posted by RYANINMICHIGAN

What are the beliefs of Mormons on Lutherans?

Mormons believe Lutherans are Christians seeking to become more Christ-like.

I do not believe the book of Mormon is scripture.

Mormons use the King James Version of the Bible. Mormons also consider the Luther translation of the Bible to be the word of God.

I don't believe in salvation by acts either.

Mormons believe salvation comes from the gift and grace of God, through the atonement of Jesus Christ.

I drink and hunt and fight when need be. Do I get to go to heaven?

Under Mormon theology, absolutely and definitely.

[KenV]

Originally Posted by 76Highboy

So what saves us? Is it the good deeds we do?

Mormons believe salvation comes from the gift and grace of God, through the atonement of Jesus Christ.

1. Salvation is a gift, it is NOT earned.
2. The gift of salvation is offered to mankind because God is full of grace and mercy. But he is also perfectly just.
3. If not for Christ's atonement, God's justice would prevail and we would be eternally lost. Mercy cannot rob justice. However, the atonement of Jesus Christ makes it possible for God to extend his mercy and grace to humanity. Thus through the atonement the requirements of justice are satisfied AND God can gift us with his mercy and grace.

So what about the above is "not Christian"?

[jack404]

True and False Prophets

15 “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

now i dunno your thoughts , on this part of the good book

but i see a lot of good fruit in the Mormon Church

i'm not afan of catholasism either but Martin Luther stated as one and soon broke that gang up and help the catholic church grow and be less autocratic

change comes from the good folks who love God within

dont like the doctrine ? challenge the Church, the body , but the folks

look at a folks faith before you decide anything , and watch their deeds

between the two you'll know if they be Christian

I beleive in a personal theory ( all mine) about the big bang , thats it was of God the Creator ( it was the act of creation itself and time .. relatively speaking ) and all to get us to about this point in time and space for His plan to come to Fruition

that make me not a Christian ??

i guess it does as its not strict bible unless.. narr

that'd be unacceptable to the Main stream Churches eh

they'd have to excommunicate me or something eh

firing squad ?

my ancestors have been hunted before by the church

heratics and we place no special attachment to mary .. she was a vessel and blessed so .. but thats all ,

we gonna start that again ??

do i need to find a modern day Catherine the great ?

[jack404]

Satan was a spirit , all spirits are of God ( or did ol nick have a seperate creator? ) satan was also a angel but old nick got greedy , and got cast out , and that too i believe is part and parcel of God's plan for us all

look its a bit more indepth and direct but essentially correct , i forget the passage ( psalm i think where all things in heaven are of the one spirit as brothers or something to that effect )

my statements that we are star dust , and the Bible statement we are clay is similar

we are the composed sum of input of nutrients based on a cellular organic mechanism

all of which has come from the cosmos , been reaarrainged in nature by its factories ( plants time and geology

and here we are

[KenV]

Originally Posted by 76Highboy

Ken,

Mormonism is a flat out heresies. I have studied it in depth for years. Let me ask you this. If it is up to the man of the marriage, based on his "works" in life for the wife to go to heaven then why did Jesus address the woman at the well?

I don't know what you studied, but the above is NOT "Mormonism". Not even close. You have an utterly false notion about Mormonism.

Also, if salvation is based on works then what was the death on the cross about?

Same reply applies to this question.

Here is a website that I go to. I listen to this guy in person two Fridays a month and he is looking for a Mormon to be on his radio broadcast. Maybe you can call him and make that appointment and convince him on open air. I live in an area where there are quite a few Mormons and many are friends. But, they are still wrong, and brainwashed.

http://carm.org/mormonism

This is hilarious. You go to some off the wall preacher's axe grinding website and then claim to have studied mormonism "in depth for years". If you want to know about the LDS church, go to lds.org or mormon.org.

On the subject of being "brainwashed" may I suggest you look in the mirror? You appear to have filled your brain with fairy tales about Mormons and believe them to be true.

This is a great website to strengthen your knowledge on Christianity.

In my opinion, this is a great website to learn about an axe grinding version of Christianity that resembles little what Christ taught two millenia ago.

[76Highboy]

.

[KenV]

Originally Posted by 76Highboy

No. Because Mormons believe that you are saved by your works.

Absolutely FALSE.

In fact, Mormons if asked if they are saved say they don't know because if their works fall short then they may not go to Heaven.

False AGAIN. Mormons believe no one knows who will "go to heaven" because ONLY Christ is the judge. I cannot judge myself any better than I can judge you. You apparently have decided you can usurp Christ's role as the only judge of mankind and condemn millions of others to eternal damnation. Good for you.

Therefore, if they are saved by works then they are not saved by Jesus Christ. In fact that is idolatry because once one says they are saved by works they have just put their actions above Jesus Christ therefore demeaning Jesus. Placing anything above Jesus Christ is idolatry and God forbids that.

God forbids that, and yet here you are placing yourself above Christ by condemning millions (perhaps billions) to eternal damnation. Good for you!

[76Highboy]

.

[KenV]

Originally Posted by 76Highboy

Mormons believe that Jesus and Satan were brother's.

Yup. Mormons believe all humans (including Jesus Christ) are the sons and daughters of God. Even Satan was a son of god. Since we all have the same father, we are all brothers and sisters. You appear to be saying that anyone who believes we do not all share the same spiritual father cannot be a Christian. On what do you base your belief?

And what does this have to do with justice, mercy, grace, salvation, and Christ's atonement, which is the basis of Christianity.