Looking for a 300/400 yard, kill a predator, cartridge & gun. What would you choose?

[JohnnyFlake]

Originally Posted by BETH

what do u mean human preditor?

I mean exactly what it says, human predators!

Mostly based on a SHTF Scenario. However, even without a SHTF Scenario, believe it or not, there are many, many, very bad people out there!

[JLA]

Originally Posted by 3/2 STA SS

At 500 yes you did...

I owe George Moody the credit. He called me and dropped this little gem right in my lap. I couldnt write that check fast enough.

[GunHugger]

Originally Posted by JohnnyFlake

I am looking for a solid 300/400 yard cartridge and a quality solid bolt or lever rifle that is not ridiculously expensive. I want the power to solidly put down a human predator at that range. I am not looking for a .50 cal or even a 300 Winchester magnum. I want something easier to shoot that will do the job, if I do mine.

What would be your choice in cartridge and weapon?

The part in red didn't register in my head until after I dug up the pic below to post here. Well...

Still I would go with a 308 for what you are looking for.

I live on a hill, these are what the wife and I will use for that range and more.

[aa1911]

my M1A is stupid accurate, especially if you only want 3-400yd accuracy, I'm with you Gunhugger. I'm for certain not against .223 but .308 is so much better IMO.

Besides, if you do get a human predator, 7.62 is much more intimidating when it's whizzing past your ears than 5.56 will ever be. That's only if ya miss of course!

[polishshooter]

Originally Posted by JohnnyFlake

I mean exactly what it says, human predators!

Mostly based on a SHTF Scenario. However, even without a SHTF Scenario, believe it or not, there are many, many, very bad people out there!

I prefer to be more politically correct. Which is why I many times in polite company I have referred to my Rock River AR as the rifle with which "I can protect my tomatoes."





But I can always keep the rabbits and other 4 legged creatures away from them with my .22lr Marlin if you catch my drift...

[JLA]

Didnt know they liked 'maters' much PS. Thought it was Watermelon..

[GunHugger]

[polishshooter]

There's quite a few miles they would have to walk through from the nearby cities before they got to me and I don't have much luck with watermelons in my garden anyway, that's SOUTHERN Indiana that grows them....

But we have enough "White Trash" in town a few miles away that couldn't fend for themselves for 5 minutes without their "Guv'ment check" that I'm thinking about....

[MikeH121]

Originally Posted by aa1911

my M1A is stupid accurate, especially if you only want 3-400yd accuracy, I'm with you Gunhugger. I'm for certain not against .223 but .308 is so much better IMO.

Besides, if you do get a human predator, 7.62 is much more intimidating when it's whizzing past your ears than 5.56 will ever be. That's only if ya miss of course!

The Joke from 7.62x54r.net is With an AK you can hit the broad side of a barn, with an ar-15 you can hit the broad side of a barn, with a MOSIN you can hit the broad side of a barn 2 counties over.

At 250 yards going through 1/2 inch plate it outranges and powers any .223

and at under 80 bucks for 440 rounds at SGAMMO.COM they have sales where you can get it een cheaper. It is cheaper than all but my 22's to shoot.

And as for SHTF the Mosin can also be used as a club, an oar for your canoe, you can hammer in tent stakes with the steel butt plate. It can get dirty.

It still remains a top kill sniper rifle, a woman, Lyudmila Pavlichenko 309 kills, Mihail Ilyich Surkov 702 kills, Vladimir Gavrilovich Salbiev 601 kills all in WWII.

I liked the M16 in the Army, and plinking with an AR is fun. A 93 year old WWII vet a few days ago killed a guy breaking in with a .22 rifle. It is accuracy more than caliber. But the 30-30, 30-06, 308, 7.62 gives you a wider variety of loads and ranges.

[JLA]

Dang. I need some of that magical ammo. My 174 SMKs out of my M39 barely crater the plate at 250 yards.

[polishshooter]

[QUOTE=MikeH121;989866]The Joke from 7.62x54r.net is With an AK you can hit the broad side of a barn, with an ar-15 you can hit the broad side of a barn, with a MOSIN you can hit the broad side of a barn 2 counties over.

QUOTE]

Well maybe if they are SMALL counties....

And I believe the AR could do that too, as long as you held half a county high and a county into the wind! (Kinda like our "Dog High and Dog to the right" spotter commands we give each other in South Dakota?)

JLA, maybe its the green tipped AP? Certainly not with the cheap crappy late Commie made Albanian Ball I still have under the bed for making noise on the 4th and New Years.

The good POLISH stuff I have been saving, on the other hand....

[JLA]

Nah. I doubt it. I have tested steel core penetrators at .300 WM velocities and they barely punch thru at 100. There simply isnt enough mass in a .30 cal projectile to penetrate a half inch of plate steel at 250 yards. Maybe mild steel, but they dont make too much of that in 1/2" plate form. Heck even the mighty .50 BMG has trouble with an inch of plate at 100 yards. Thats why they have the AP incendiary round.

[JohnnyFlake]

I have not given up on my hunt for a 5.56/.223 bolt action rifle that fills all my wants. There are many nice ones out there but a big issue for me, is that I want one with a detachable magazine. I simply am not happy with the 5 shot internal magazine that most have.

I think that I have finally found what I want. I have read many good things about it and of course a few complaints as well.

Your comments will really be appreciated.

https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/...B+223+LAM+10RD

[JLA]

good choice johnny. those actions are remington/savage hybrids and they use standard AR mags. You could go 75 rd. drum if you want. A good bedding job is all itll need.

[streetbob]

I like the 7mm Remington Mag., 300 Winchester Mag., .308, .270, & 25-06 in that order. Almost any round mentioned above will do under 400 yards. I just like the extra knock down when it gets down there.

[JohnnyFlake]

Originally Posted by JLA

good choice johnny. those actions are remington/savage hybrids and they use standard AR mags. You could go 75 rd. drum if you want. A good bedding job is all itll need.

OMG, A 75 round drum on a bolt action rifle! Can you just picture that!!! LOL!

Thanks for the comment JLA. From all the info that I've been able to come up with, the most suggested magazine, is the 20 round, loading only 18. It is said to work perfectly, with no issues at all.

[masterofdisaster]

I have a savage fcpk .308 its a very accurate gon with zero recoil..It is heavy though with the 24" bull barrel

[Maine04657]

This is the .204 Ruger I built two years ago and so far just over 400 is my furthest yote. I do ALLOT of yote hunting all year up here.

[Ledslnger]

Originally Posted by polishshooter

Sorry, but that is passing along an 'Old Wive's Tale' (Old Shooter's Tale?) from guys who want to justify buying anything OTHER than a Swift.

The Swift was the oldest and first, as well as the hottest .22 centerfire ever developed, in 1935. In 1935 the .30-30 was still considered "hot" and Savage ws still getting mileage out of the .250-3000, since 3000 fps was considered unGodly fast....then comes a factory round hitting 4100.....WOW

But then everybody starts reading the gun mags, saying it will work for anything, from mice to Elk to Bears and everybody buys one....and some actually report spectacular one shot kils on Elk at 400...

But then the failures start, guys start badmouthing it because it ISN'T a Elk rifle...

Then the phenomenal accuracy starts to drop off, and "it's a barrel burner...." Then NOBODY wants one, and just like EVERYBODY thought it was a "Kill anything that moves rifle" at first, (it wasn't) now "everybody" calls it a "barrel burner." (it isn't.)


The problem is everybody cleaned their Swifts cack then like they cleaned their .30-30s, with the same oil and solvents they had been using since blackpowder days....the REALLY good copper removing solvents had not been invented yet. And yeah it's a simple fact, the faster a gilded bullet travels through a barrel, then more of that metal gets left behind....and your .223 will do it too, I hate to tell you.

The OTHER factor is barrel heat. YES the faster the bullet is traveling, the faster the barrel heats up, and when a barrel gets hot, the groups get bigger, it's a fact of life with any rifle, but the Swift will get to that point quicker than any...but that's why you monitor the heat, and when the barrel is too hot to touch, you put it aside to cool, and it will be just as accurate cool as it was before.....THAT is why you don't see any Swifts (or -250s!) with a 30 round mag in an AR or AK package But your AR WILL do the same thing-try shooting a group AFTER you put just one 30 round mag is put through it rapidly....

If YOU don't clean it properly, YOUR barrel will "burn out in 1500 rounds" too....

Guys STILL make good money buying Swifts from yahoos supposedly with "shot out barrels" for a song, and just CLEANING them well and reselling them with all their accuracy back.

Bottom line is, the life and accuracy of a Swift barrel with proper care will last as long as ANY highly accurate centerfire rifle, for about the same amount of rounds before any replacement barrel is necessary.

Correct, they are not making any ARs in .220 Swift. But, they are making them in Ruger .204 and they have those big clips. Talk about a possible hot barrel. The .204 is a smoking round!

[Zane71464]

Originally Posted by Maine04657

This is the .204 Ruger I built two years ago and so far just over 400 is my furthest yote. I do ALLOT of yote hunting all year up here.

NICE!
I have the Savage in .204 Ruger and at 400yds with my scope "set-up", spot on.
And out to 600 on targets...very little drop. But of coarse I'm used to the .223 round at 3200fps.

[targetacqmgt]

Originally Posted by JohnnyFlake

I am looking for a solid 300/400 yard cartridge and a quality solid bolt or lever rifle that is not ridiculously expensive. I want the power to solidly put down a human predator at that range. I am not looking for a .50 cal or even a 300 Winchester magnum. I want something easier to shoot that will do the job, if I do mine.

What would be your choice in cartridge and weapon?

6.55 Swedish Mauser or 7.62 X 54R Mosin with scope using FMJ rounds. A Mosin can be modified with a syn stock to reduce weight or a good recoil pad on a wood stock to reduce shock of recoil.

If a 6.55 swede SLOW fire. Rapid fire causes the swede steel to swell a bit. The weapon was designed for precision shooting. The barrels are very accurate even with a early 20th century barrel. IMO

[targetacqmgt]

Originally Posted by MikeH121

Mosin Nagant 7.62x54R 150 grain bullet at a muzzle velocity of 2,953 fps with muzzle energy (ME) of 2,905 ft. lbs. up to 800 meters.

With a good LER Scope. You can be accurate to 800 yards easy. The Garand has a vel of 2600+ FPS. All for under 200 bucks.

or just get the new Ruger American Rifle bolt action 30-06 around 400 bucks

What he said

[targetacqmgt]

Originally Posted by cpttango30

I have 2 varmint rifles well 4 really.

1. Remington 700 VLS 223 Timney trigger Nikon Monarch UCC 6.5-20x42mm. Taken ground hogs out to 450 yards red misting everyone.

2. RRA Predator Pursuit Rifle 2 stage NM trigger (LOVE THAT TRIGGER) topped with a 6-24x50mm SF Nikon Monarch. 425 yard red mist ground hog with 60gr V-Max.

3. M 98 Shilen barrel 25-06 Canjar trigger Lyman All american scope. Good for squirrels out to 450+.

4. 1917 Rem Enfield Shilen 308 barrel custom trigger topped with a Sightron SIII 8-32x56mm. That is a reach out and touch them varmint rifle.

I will take door number 4 please

[targetacqmgt]

Originally Posted by GunHugger

The part in red didn't register in my head until after I dug up the pic below to post here. Well...

Still I would go with a 308 for what you are looking for.

I live on a hill, these are what the wife and I will use for that range and more.

Dang if those two rifles make me well ah Smile.

[Freebore]

I think one rifle/cartridge that is greatly overlooked that can neutralize most long range situations is the Weatherby's 257 Magnum. This cartridge is one of the flatest shooting rounds with tremedous remaining energy at longer ranges. Comparing the .223 to the 257 Weatherby is a no brainer. Also, Weatherby now offers the 257 Mag in the redesigned Vanguard 2 guaranteed to group under 1" at 100 yards.

Currently selling at Cabelas @ $450.00 (hard to beat for long range affordability)