Let's do our own poll.... - Page 3 - The Firearms Forum

76Highboy · 09-16-2012, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gun Geezer

I heard this today. Voting a second term for Obama is like backing up the Titanic and ramming the iceberg again.

That is the truth. Funny too.

Old Grump · 09-16-2012, 10:40 PM

Quote:

polishshooter

Let's do our own poll....
Yeah, this poll WAS tongue in cheek, but was meant to serve a purpose.../

To smoke out the "Sitting out" and the misguided "3rd Party" voters.

Guys and Gals, this two party system HAS served us well for over 200 years, and is EXACTLY why we HAVE survived 236 years since our Revolution.

Sorry old buddy. I won't go into all the ways you are wrong but lets say your statement shows a remarkably lack of historical knowledge.

democrats - 1832
Republicans -1854

There were many parties before and since and both the Democrats and the Republicans are an amalgamation of previous parties. The slavery issue and the civil war was mostly responsible for these two parties and the Democrats were the pro slavery bunch.

You need to read a few books before you write another essay on the history of the two party system.

AL MOUNT · 09-17-2012, 06:52 AM

Those 3 people that won't vote.....

Is the the same as 3 votes FOR His Imperial Majesty Oboner...

Blackshirts · 09-18-2012, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by polishshooter

To smoke out the....the misguided "3rd Party" voters....."You gotta dance with the girl you got!"....For all you guys who say there is no difference to either party, sorry, my only advice is just SHUT UP.....Now is not the time.....For starters, NO more of this Ron Paul/Libertarian crap....start over trying to convince people AGAIN, even RIGHT after this election for 2016...you have that right, but SHUT UP, due your part for FREEDOM, hold your nose and vote for Romney in November.

I understand the point you are trying to make, but that is probably the worst way you could have responded to "3rd party" voters. Your statement essentially goes to the very heart of what they are fighting against. "Just shut up and fall in line with the rest of the Republican sheep(err free thinkers). You hate us and think we are corrupt and the reason the country is going to sh*t, but vote for us anyway because you have no choice".

Appliancedude · 09-18-2012, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackshirts

I understand the point you are trying to make, but that is probably the worst way you could have responded to "3rd party" voters. Your statement essentially goes to the very heart of what they are fighting against. "Just shut up and fall in line with the rest of the Republican sheep(err free thinkers). You hate us and think we are corrupt and the reason the country is going to sh*t, but vote for us anyway because you have no choice".

True. Its probably not the way to appeal to 3rd party voters. But here's the problem man. Its almost the final hour and we are desperate. And we still have "free thinkers" thinking they can pull off a 3rd party upset. Not gonna happen. Not gonna repeat why. WE NEED OBAMA GONE. And we need every vote we can get. This is gonna be a close election. We need to get through the sometimes very thick skulls of the 3rd party guys. The time for playing nice is over. We don't have the time to change your mind. We have to bust through the facade of well my vote doesn't really count anyways, I'm gonna vote for soNso. We do hate them, they are corrupt. And lets toss their @$$s out starting in 2013. But right now we have to protect what little freedom we have left. We (choke) need Romney. At least he isn't hell bent on destroying the country. Want to get rid of the republican party? ME TOO. but its too late for 2012.

45nut · 09-18-2012, 09:33 PM

As long as there are FREE elections I'll vote for the more constitutionalist team.

Old Grump · 09-19-2012, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Appliancedude

True. Its probably not the way to appeal to 3rd party voters. But here's the problem man. Its almost the final hour and we are desperate. And we still have "free thinkers" thinking they can pull off a 3rd party upset. Not gonna happen. Not gonna repeat why. WE NEED OBAMA GONE. And we need every vote we can get. This is gonna be a close election. We need to get through the sometimes very thick skulls of the 3rd party guys. The time for playing nice is over. We don't have the time to change your mind. We have to bust through the facade of well my vote doesn't really count anyways, I'm gonna vote for soNso. We do hate them, they are corrupt. And lets toss their @$$s out starting in 2013. But right now we have to protect what little freedom we have left. We (choke) need Romney. At least he isn't hell bent on destroying the country. Want to get rid of the republican party? ME TOO. but its too late for 2012.

Hey Dingus McGee, you and all the other vote the same way every time guys are why you have a simple minded liberal like Romney running as a pretend conservative. What you will get if you get him elected is another Bush Jr, another Clinton, another Bush Sr. another Carter, and its why we are in a solid socialist oligarchy instead of the Republic we were designed to be. You vote the way the old guard wants and they will have no ****ing reason to change their ways so be a gutless coward if you need to be but don't be calling us men who are voting for an American wrong because we know who is wrong and it isn't us. It isn't a thick skull on us but a belief that every vote counts and if you want change you vote for change. Thick skulls belong to the neanderthal vote who are voting the way they will vote because that is they way they have always voted. Some of us were smart enough to see the light. To bad your head is still in a heavy canvas bag, the same bag they used as a feedbag for the mule, only fitting because your mule like stubbornness is why we will continue to sink and continue to lose ground as the best and freest country in the world.

CCHolderinMaine · 09-19-2012, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woolleyworm

I'll take Romney/Ryan in the Presidential Finals and the Bruins in the Stanley Cup Finals.

Go Bruins....IF there's a season at all.....

jstgsn · 09-19-2012, 08:40 PM

In my humble opinion, if anyone votes for a third party, they are voting for Obama. You ever hear of "Devide and defeat your enemy"? If you are too stupid to understand that, then you deserve the results.

"well I stood up for my values" doesn't help when you sell your friends and family down the river. Please explain how "they are both the same, except one is worse, so I threw my vote away" makes it okay to throw your vote away?

If one is terrible, and the other is poor, and one has no chance to win, why would you vote for the one with no chance? To prove a point??? What don't you understand? I'm going to make a point? To who? In the long run, when you vote for a loser, no one remembers your vote.

If you want to change things, get active, stir up some $hit, and become someone that matters or find someone who does. The lesser of two evils, and the one only to make a point, is still not going to win the popular vote. The least accepted of three evils won't be remembered next year, and the one who won will take away your guns if he wants to. The next may not, and the third, ain't going to win.

Git a grip.

polishshooter · 09-19-2012, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old Grump

Sorry old buddy. I won't go into all the ways you are wrong but lets say your statement shows a remarkably lack of historical knowledge.

democrats - 1832
Republicans -1854

There were many parties before and since and both the Democrats and the Republicans are an amalgamation of previous parties. The slavery issue and the civil war was mostly responsible for these two parties and the Democrats were the pro slavery bunch.

You need to read a few books before you write another essay on the history of the two party system.

OldGrump, where and when did you earn your BA in History?

Saint Bonaventure, '80 for me. Only a few credits towards my MA though, had to get on with life and raising a family so I MIGHT defer to you if you have a MA or a PhD....

And oh yeah, we have the History Forum on this site BECAUSE of me.

Add I take it you didn't read any of my other posts, YOU might have learned a little about what I said about the Whigs and Federalists. Granted I didn't get into the Bull Moose party or any of the other minor ones that TRIED...

Grump, Don't go casting aspersions here...you will be SURPRISED at the depth of knowledge other people here have....and YEAH, I have been humbled by a few REAL History Professors here, and also have humbled a few MYSELF

polishshooter · 09-19-2012, 09:58 PM

And Grump? I admire your Libertarian streak. There IS a time and place for that, but unfortunately it isn't NOW.

You in your posts sound like a true patriot, you even express your love for this country and wanting to SAVE it...

Then DO it, Dammit!

Get off your high horse and VOTE for Romney in November.

YES we may NOT be saving it if Romney wins...YES we may be just prolonging the inevitabe...it might STILL crumble...

But it is OVER if Obama wins. And when it ALL crumbles, who says what follows is remotely "Consitutional" at all???

If history is what you think you know, then remember that the ONLY thing that EVER follows the end of a Republic is a Tyranny, be it Caesar Augustus or Adolph Hitler....and then bloodshed...Is THAT what you WANT for your professed beloved Country??????

Yeah, we all have to prepare for that eventuality that MAY happen in our lifetime no matter who we vote for, BUT who do you think will live and work more CLOSELY to the Constitution, Romney or OBAMA??? NOBODY else counts NOW. It WILL be one of them.

That may not be much, but that IS all we have, right here, right NOW.

And if it carries through, Republicans take over the Senate, and maintain control of the House, AND more Conservatives get seats in both houses, AND we can throw out the RINO Republican leaders and hold Romney's feet to the fire, there is a good chance we can start reversing this mess...and when the economy rebounds which is will, MAYBE we can bury the "Progressives" once and for all...just MAYBE...

BUT, if anyone claims to love Freedom and wants to save our Republic as we know it and want it to be better and more closely aligned with what it was in the past, but does NOT vote for Romney in Novemeber....

...they are WORSE than those misguided fools voting for Obama...they are intentionally voting against America and Amercan Freedom as we know and love it....and they KNOW BETTER.

This is Washington and The Continental Army freezing and starving on the west bank of the Delaware...NOBODY gave them a chance against Howe or Cornwallis ...everyone has written them off, and some "patriots" ARE even backbiting in Philadelphia.

November is our Trenton....

Yeah, VALLEY FORGE and even tougher times WILL follow...but EVENTUALLY if we pull TOGETHER, on THIS side, we WILL beat those B@st@rds...

And yeah, Old Grump, we need YOUR help now so we can start rowing across the river....

Appliancedude · 09-19-2012, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old Grump

Hey Dingus McGee, you and all the other vote the same way every time guys are why you have a simple minded liberal like Romney running as a pretend conservative. What you will get if you get him elected is another Bush Jr, another Clinton, another Bush Sr. another Carter, and its why we are in a solid socialist oligarchy instead of the Republic we were designed to be. You vote the way the old guard wants and they will have no ****ing reason to change their ways so be a gutless coward if you need to be but don't be calling us men who are voting for an American wrong because we know who is wrong and it isn't us. It isn't a thick skull on us but a belief that every vote counts and if you want change you vote for change. Thick skulls belong to the neanderthal vote who are voting the way they will vote because that is they way they have always voted. Some of us were smart enough to see the light. To bad your head is still in a heavy canvas bag, the same bag they used as a feedbag for the mule, only fitting because your mule like stubbornness is why we will continue to sink and continue to lose ground as the best and freest country in the world.

Hey Tweedle Dee I can call names too if you'd like. Vote whoever you want to. I'm telling you, whoever you vote for is not going to win. Think he will. Vote for him. We will see. If you don't vote for Obama or Romney, your guy isn't even gonna get 10% of the vote. But hey your a smart guy. 10% wins right? You can call me stubborn because I want to see the muslim gone. Whatever Tweedle Dee. Romney wasn't my guy, but HE IS THE ONLY MAN ON THE PLANET THAT HAS A CHANCE TO UN-THRONE OBAMA!!!!!!!! Don't get it do you? You still think the guy your gonna vote for can win don't ya? Yea I'm stuborn

.

Oh wait, whats that, you don't think he can win? Your just making a political statement. Well then maybe your not Tweedle Dee, maybe your his brother. What was his name again?

Lets make change. I'm with ya Tweedle Dee. Right after the Nov election, I will cease to be a Republican. And I will vote for the guy who represents me not a party I have disassociated myself from. If he happens to have a R after his name so be it. I will no longer be a all Republican voter. But this election is different. O has got to go. Well Tweedle Dee, happy voting to ya.

polishshooter · 09-20-2012, 08:24 AM

OK, Third Party Guys, here is how it CAN and SHOULD work....

We NEED to replace one of our National Parties, I will grant you that...the ONLY way that happens and has EVER happened is if one of the two MAIN parties implodes on itself and disintegrates into backbiting factions....

The Party that SHOULD be doing that is the DEMOCRAT party...more factions than any in history, gays, commies, minorities, illegal immigrants, Union thugs, "victims...."

Hell, it should have happened ALREADY...and I thought it would have after Reagan...MOST of the time in our history when a party loses in a LANDSLIDE they reassess, have a "Civil War," and come back CHANGED

But they regrouped by appear to be running a "CONSERVATIVE," (Yeah, I know, a FRAUD) Bill Clinton, while quietly getting their ultra Liberal "Progressives" into positions of power in Congress, and running their money....and DOUBLED DOWN on their Liberalism in different clothing...

LIBERALISM is what is killing our Country folks, yeah, from BOTH parties, but the ones PUSHING it down our throats every day is the DEMOCRATS!!! Can we agree on THAT much?

With ONE MORE landslide, the revolt will happen on the OTHER side, and you should see any Democrats that still llove America (There are some left) become REPUBLICANS, and the Democrat party degenerates into a "Fringe" whack-o party, and the VACUUM gets filled by a third party....the way it has ALWAYS worked...

Except now with the Influx of Dems, and the continued influence of the RINOs, the REPUBLICAN party becomes the new "Main" party of the LEFT, although more RIGHT than the former Democrats....KInda like a European- "Social- Democratic" Party....which in THEIR politics many times is the MOST Conservative as opposed to LABOUR parties....

That still is BAD, but it now happens more SLOWLY so we can form and oppose THEM...when it will COUNT.

Because when THAT happens it opens the door for the "CONSERVATIVE PARTY" to push from the RIGHT, at which time TRUE conservatives bail from the Republicans and embrace the REAL Conservatives...

It will take a few cycles, and the Republicans will dominate for a WHILE, until the Conservatives gain enouhg supposrt to win nationally, but THAT is how the Republic is saved...

The ALTERNATIVE?

REPUBLICANS implode FIRST????

Then the Democrats dominate for DECADES, it simply EMBOLDENS the Liberals within their party, They can say SEE???? Liberalism and Socialism is what they WANT!!!

There will be NO Constitution left for any of us Conservatives to DEFEND, much less run "within the system" to change it...

No, most of us here will NOT be Republicans some day. But there STILL must be a Republican PARTY we can fight....

The DEMOCRAT party MUST be the one to "Go Away....."

But we need that Landslide NOW, it IS within our grasp to make this work, in 40 some DAYS, not in DECADES....

kentuckyrifleman · 09-20-2012, 07:37 PM

I know this is something we all feel strongly about, and I am new here, but guys cant' we have a discusion without calling each other names? I like TFF because it seemed every one was civil, I can find people calling each other names all over the web. Seems to me that republicans and liberaterins are pretty close together, to close to be turning on each other.

Like I said, I'm new here, so maybe its none of my business, but you all seem like friends and I hate to see it.

kentuckyrifleman · 09-20-2012, 07:54 PM

Oh, and Polishshooter I am going to disagree with you here. I respect youre' knowledge on a lot of subjects (fireararms, military, even politics) but that comment "where did you get your degree" was a cheap shot. Just becuase someone did not get a chance to get higher education like you did (and I am not saying you didnt' earn it, Im sure you did) doesn't mean they don't have opinions that are good. From reading your posts for over a year now I geuss, I thought you at least knew what it was to work with your hands. Just going to college doesn't mean youre better then somebody else.

Old Grump · 09-20-2012, 08:08 PM

Federalist Party 1789
Anti-Federalist Party 1789
Democratic-Republican Party 1792
Toleration Party 1816
Anti-Masonic Party 1826
National Republican Party 1825
Nullifier Party 1830
Whig Party 1833
Liberty Party 1840
Law and Order Party of Rhode Island 1840
Free Soil Party 1848
Anti-Nebraska Party 1854
American Republican Party 1843
American Party (a.k.a. "Know-Nothings") 1854
Opposition Party 1854
Constitutional Union Party 1860
Unconditional Union Party 1861
National Union Party, 1864
Readjuster Party 1870
People's Party of Utah 1870
Liberal Party (Utah) 1870
Liberal Republican Party 1872
Greenback Party 1874
Socialist Labor Party of America 1876
Anti-Monopoly Party 1884
People's Party (a.k.a. "Populists") 1887
Silver Party 1892
National Democratic Party ("Gold Democrats") 1896
Silver Republican Party 1896
Social Democratic Party 1898
Home Rule Party of Hawaii 1900
Socialist Party of America 1901
Independence Party (a.k.a. "Independence League") 1906
Progressive Party 1912 (a.k.a. "Bull Moose Party") 1912
National Woman's Party 1913
Non-Partisan League 1915
Farmer-Labor Party 1918
Proletarian Party of America 1920
Progressive Party 1924 1924
Communist League of America 1928
American Workers Party 1933
Workers Party of the United States 1934
Union Party 1936)
American Labor Party 1936
America First Party 1944
States' Rights Democratic Party (a.k.a. "Dixiecrats") 1948
Progressive Party 1948
Vegetarian Party 1948
Constitution Party 1950s)
American Nazi Party 1959–
Puerto Rican Socialist Party 1959
Mississippi Freedom Democratic Party 1964
Black Panther Party 1966
Youth International Party (a.k.a. "Yippies") 1967
Communist Workers Party 1969
People's Party 1971
New Union Party 1974
U.S. Labor Party 1975
Concerned Citizens Party 1975
Citizens Party 1979
New Alliance Party 1979
Populist Party of 1s 1984
Looking Back Party 1984
Independent Party of Utah 1988
A Connecticut Party 1990
New Party 1992
Natural Law Party 1992
Veterans Party 2003–
Christian Freedom Party 2004
Personal Choice Party 2004
Boston Tea Party 2006

George Washington – no party
John Adams - Federalist
Thomas Jefferson - Democratic-Republican
James Madison - Democratic-Republican
James Monroe - Democratic-Republican
John Quincy Adams - Democratic-Republican
Andrew Jackson – Democratic
Martin Van Buren – Democratic
William Henry Harrison – Whig
John Tyler – Whig/no party
James K Polk – Democratic
Zachary Taylor – Whig
Millard Fillmore - Whig
Franklin Pierce – Democratic
James Buchanan – Democratic
Abraham Lincoln – Republican/National Union
Andrew Johnson - Democratic/National Union/No Party

The point of this list is there is nothing sacred about the parties in power and the festering corruption in our government is cause enough to replace them. They have only been a two party monopoly since the Civil war and the parties today are a far cry from the charters that established them in the first place. They no longer represent us but themselves and the only way to get them out of office and to put a clean broom in their seat is to have courage and do what is right instead of what EVERYBODY says is right. Bowing to peer pressure is the worst form of pandering to the lowest common denominator and it means nobody but the top monkey is thinking.

Tweedle Dee over and out.

jstgsn · 09-20-2012, 08:30 PM

blah blah blah blah.... There is a fight. There are two men in the ring and a ref. Only one of the men can win, so to prove a point you are going to vote for the ref. Not a smart bet in my opinion. It has the same weight as the opinion of the women in the balcony saying the fight should be banned cause they can't choose the winner. After the fight they will complain bitterly. And they will die never having a say in the outcome.

CampingJosh · 09-20-2012, 08:44 PM

No one here minds a good discussion. Or even a heated one.

But let's be done with the name calling.

polishshooter · 09-20-2012, 08:46 PM

Old Grump, you made my POINT!!

How many of them were SUCCESSFUL parties and actually got a President or Control of CONGRESS ELECTED, and HOW did they do it????

ONLY the Federalists and Anti-Federalists...at first...

Then the Democrat-Republican which became the Democrat party replaced the Anti-Federalists when they imploded....

THEN the Whigs who replaced the Federalists when THEY imploded....

Then the Republicans who replaced the Whigs when THEY imploded.

Since then, ???????

EVERY OTHER PARTY YOU list (so far,) is a FOOTNOTE you looked up on the internet. Before the internet you wouldn't even HAVE the list because they made so little impact on our politics OR History....probably you would have only heard of the Bull Moose party, who caused a highly POPULAR Former President to lose in a LANDSLIDE...

One of the MAJOR parties IMPLODED. And "a" "minor" one in the right place at the right time with the right message REPLACED it.

That's the ONLY way it works.

Just think how EFFECTIVE our system would have been if we gave EACH of them a seat at the table, with maybe 1.27% or so of the vote in congress? Our next President could very WELL be the leader of the "Vegetarian Party" who cobbled together 5.6% of the national vote because of his "Day Job" as the host of a GAME SHOW....

You think what we have NOW is bad, look at the History of ANY "Coalition Democracy" in History!!! You want to have our History run by a government like ITALY has????

Or FRANCE???

We are the ONLY country that has a two party system Democracy....and we have lasted longer and have been more SUCCESSFUL and more FREE than ANY other....

But it AIN'T perfect. Never was, never will BE. But only the BEST ever in History.....so far....

polishshooter · 09-20-2012, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kentuckyrifleman

Oh, and Polishshooter I am going to disagree with you here. I respect youre' knowledge on a lot of subjects (fireararms, military, even politics) but that comment "where did you get your degree" was a cheap shot. Just becuase someone did not get a chance to get higher education like you did (and I am not saying you didnt' earn it, Im sure you did) doesn't mean they don't have opinions that are good. From reading your posts for over a year now I geuss, I thought you at least knew what it was to work with your hands. Just going to college doesn't mean youre better then somebody else.

KY, I begrudge NO one his money, his knowledge, his education, his experience, his background or whatever he has earned.

My father dropped out of the 8th grade to work on his family farm during the Depression, and I learned more from HIM than any other man (or Woman?) on Earth.

But if I was a WELDER by training, and somebody said 'You need to learn how to run a bead" I would be as offended.

"Sorry old buddy. I won't go into all the ways you are wrong but lets say your statement shows a remarkably lack of historical knowledge."

THAT was the only thing that really got me, along with the fact he "suggested" I read more, and I have probably read more books AND used them as sources in papers that I have written than he has........

....well, I won't make the claim I was going to make just to show some restraint...

And I WON'T get into him calling us "Gutless Cowards, Neanderthals, and referring to OUR "mule like stuborness..."

The pot and the kettle?

My point I was trying to make is that nobody here should EVER assume ANYBODY here DOESN'T have knowledge about ANYTHING, much LESS that somebody here just MIGHT possibly know more about what you think you are the "expert" on than YOU do...God knows I have been humbled HERE by members on stuff I AM an expert at...

EVERYBODY here brings something to the discussion, but "Holier than Though" we can all do without.

And "Holier than though" Libertarians can be ALMOST as annoying as "Holier than though" Liberals and Progressives....

ALMOST because I AGREE with 80% or more of what the Libertarians BELIEVE!!!

polishshooter · 09-20-2012, 09:16 PM

And oh yeah, I KNOW the old saying...

"Never argue with a fool because others won't be able to tell the difference..."

You all should know me by now, I am POLISH

.....I will argue with ANYBODY....about ANYTHING....

And yeah many times I am FULLY capable of either BEING or BECOMING the "fool" in the argument....

But GOD knows I love to argue!!!

And it is MUCH too late in life for me to change....

kentuckyrifleman · 09-21-2012, 09:41 AM

Well Polish if that is realy how you feel then, why do you get all high and mitey about advantages you had that other people dont'. Just because some one didnt' get a chance for a fancy education you should not look down on them. There opinion is just as good as yours'.

Arguing is okay but you should not talk down to people like you do just because you think your there betters.

Appliancedude · 09-21-2012, 09:48 AM

Hey man, I'm gonna cut you some slack, but........ Please be so kind as to go back and re read the thread. When someone tell someone else to go read some books and then tries to give facts post #52, they open themselves up for criticism. I think Polish was perfectly fine in what he said. I don't see you criticizing Old Grump for what he said first. Just my take on your post

Double D · 09-21-2012, 10:02 AM

I completely agree with voting 3rd party. It would be great. Now, someone please show me a real strong third party candidate that this country can really get behind........someone who can stir the people and actually draw the votes...a strong candidate with heart....still waiting.....oh well, maybe next time...I really hope so. I would love to see a patriot type candidate emerge and sweep the nation....its just not Ron Paul......

kentuckyrifleman · 09-21-2012, 10:21 AM

Appliance

You might be right I guess when I first got on here Polishs posts were the reason I decided to join the TFF. So I guess I tend to follow his posts and kinda looked up to him, so maybe I took what he said to personal becuase I did not get a chance for to much education.

View Poll Results: Are you voting this year, if so for WHOM?
Definitely Obama/Biden...	4	4.08%
Definitely Romney/Ryan...	91	92.86%
Undecided yet....	0	0%
I will not vote, or am not registered....	3	3.06%
Voters: 98. You may not vote on this poll

09-17-2012, 06:52 AM	#53
AL MOUNT Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Cleaning my Thompson in The Foothills of the Ozark Mountains Posts: 3,130	Re: Let's do our own poll.... Those 3 people that won't vote..... Is the the same as 3 votes FOR His Imperial Majesty Oboner... __________________ 501st Parachute Infantry Regiment 101st Airborne Division Vietnam 67-68

09-18-2012, 09:33 PM	#56
45nut Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 3,433	Re: Let's do our own poll.... As long as there are FREE elections I'll vote for the more constitutionalist team. __________________ A gun is a tool, Marian; no better or no worse than any other tool: an axe, a shovel or anything. A gun is as good or as bad as the man using it. Remember that. Shane Nemo me impune lacesset We recall the case of the Shoshone war band which showed up complete with one 30-30 rifle per man the week after Pearl Harbor, and simply wanted to have the enemy pointed out to them. "We hear there's a war going on and we want to go fight it." Jeff Cooper *KCCO*

09-19-2012, 08:40 PM	#59
jstgsn Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Milford, Delaware Contributor Posts: 1,314	Re: Let's do our own poll.... In my humble opinion, if anyone votes for a third party, they are voting for Obama. You ever hear of "Devide and defeat your enemy"? If you are too stupid to understand that, then you deserve the results. "well I stood up for my values" doesn't help when you sell your friends and family down the river. Please explain how "they are both the same, except one is worse, so I threw my vote away" makes it okay to throw your vote away? If one is terrible, and the other is poor, and one has no chance to win, why would you vote for the one with no chance? To prove a point??? What don't you understand? I'm going to make a point? To who? In the long run, when you vote for a loser, no one remembers your vote. If you want to change things, get active, stir up some $hit, and become someone that matters or find someone who does. The lesser of two evils, and the one only to make a point, is still not going to win the popular vote. The least accepted of three evils won't be remembered next year, and the one who won will take away your guns if he wants to. The next may not, and the third, ain't going to win. Git a grip. __________________ Don’t pick a fight with an old man. If he is too old to fight, he will just kill you.

09-19-2012, 09:58 PM	#61
polishshooter Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Indiana Contributor Posts: 7,879	Re: Let's do our own poll.... And Grump? I admire your Libertarian streak. There IS a time and place for that, but unfortunately it isn't NOW. You in your posts sound like a true patriot, you even express your love for this country and wanting to SAVE it... Then DO it, Dammit! Get off your high horse and VOTE for Romney in November. YES we may NOT be saving it if Romney wins...YES we may be just prolonging the inevitabe...it might STILL crumble... But it is OVER if Obama wins. And when it ALL crumbles, who says what follows is remotely "Consitutional" at all??? If history is what you think you know, then remember that the ONLY thing that EVER follows the end of a Republic is a Tyranny, be it Caesar Augustus or Adolph Hitler....and then bloodshed...Is THAT what you WANT for your professed beloved Country?????? Yeah, we all have to prepare for that eventuality that MAY happen in our lifetime no matter who we vote for, BUT who do you think will live and work more CLOSELY to the Constitution, Romney or OBAMA??? NOBODY else counts NOW. It WILL be one of them. That may not be much, but that IS all we have, right here, right NOW. And if it carries through, Republicans take over the Senate, and maintain control of the House, AND more Conservatives get seats in both houses, AND we can throw out the RINO Republican leaders and hold Romney's feet to the fire, there is a good chance we can start reversing this mess...and when the economy rebounds which is will, MAYBE we can bury the "Progressives" once and for all...just MAYBE... BUT, if anyone claims to love Freedom and wants to save our Republic as we know it and want it to be better and more closely aligned with what it was in the past, but does NOT vote for Romney in Novemeber.... ...they are WORSE than those misguided fools voting for Obama...they are intentionally voting against America and Amercan Freedom as we know and love it....and they KNOW BETTER. This is Washington and The Continental Army freezing and starving on the west bank of the Delaware...NOBODY gave them a chance against Howe or Cornwallis ...everyone has written them off, and some "patriots" ARE even backbiting in Philadelphia. November is our Trenton.... Yeah, VALLEY FORGE and even tougher times WILL follow...but EVENTUALLY if we pull TOGETHER, on THIS side, we WILL beat those B@st@rds... And yeah, Old Grump, we need YOUR help now so we can start rowing across the river.... __________________ The problems we face today are there because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living.

09-20-2012, 08:24 AM	#63
polishshooter Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Indiana Contributor Posts: 7,879	Re: Let's do our own poll.... OK, Third Party Guys, here is how it CAN and SHOULD work.... We NEED to replace one of our National Parties, I will grant you that...the ONLY way that happens and has EVER happened is if one of the two MAIN parties implodes on itself and disintegrates into backbiting factions.... The Party that SHOULD be doing that is the DEMOCRAT party...more factions than any in history, gays, commies, minorities, illegal immigrants, Union thugs, "victims...." Hell, it should have happened ALREADY...and I thought it would have after Reagan...MOST of the time in our history when a party loses in a LANDSLIDE they reassess, have a "Civil War," and come back CHANGED But they regrouped by appear to be running a "CONSERVATIVE," (Yeah, I know, a FRAUD) Bill Clinton, while quietly getting their ultra Liberal "Progressives" into positions of power in Congress, and running their money....and DOUBLED DOWN on their Liberalism in different clothing... LIBERALISM is what is killing our Country folks, yeah, from BOTH parties, but the ones PUSHING it down our throats every day is the DEMOCRATS!!! Can we agree on THAT much? With ONE MORE landslide, the revolt will happen on the OTHER side, and you should see any Democrats that still llove America (There are some left) become REPUBLICANS, and the Democrat party degenerates into a "Fringe" whack-o party, and the VACUUM gets filled by a third party....the way it has ALWAYS worked... Except now with the Influx of Dems, and the continued influence of the RINOs, the REPUBLICAN party becomes the new "Main" party of the LEFT, although more RIGHT than the former Democrats....KInda like a European- "Social- Democratic" Party....which in THEIR politics many times is the MOST Conservative as opposed to LABOUR parties.... That still is BAD, but it now happens more SLOWLY so we can form and oppose THEM...when it will COUNT. Because when THAT happens it opens the door for the "CONSERVATIVE PARTY" to push from the RIGHT, at which time TRUE conservatives bail from the Republicans and embrace the REAL Conservatives... It will take a few cycles, and the Republicans will dominate for a WHILE, until the Conservatives gain enouhg supposrt to win nationally, but THAT is how the Republic is saved... The ALTERNATIVE? REPUBLICANS implode FIRST???? Then the Democrats dominate for DECADES, it simply EMBOLDENS the Liberals within their party, They can say SEE???? Liberalism and Socialism is what they WANT!!! There will be NO Constitution left for any of us Conservatives to DEFEND, much less run "within the system" to change it... No, most of us here will NOT be Republicans some day. But there STILL must be a Republican PARTY we can fight.... The DEMOCRAT party MUST be the one to "Go Away....." But we need that Landslide NOW, it IS within our grasp to make this work, in 40 some DAYS, not in DECADES.... __________________ The problems we face today are there because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living.

09-20-2012, 07:37 PM	#64
kentuckyrifleman V.I.P. Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 73	Re: Let's do our own poll.... I know this is something we all feel strongly about, and I am new here, but guys cant' we have a discusion without calling each other names? I like TFF because it seemed every one was civil, I can find people calling each other names all over the web. Seems to me that republicans and liberaterins are pretty close together, to close to be turning on each other. Like I said, I'm new here, so maybe its none of my business, but you all seem like friends and I hate to see it.

09-20-2012, 07:54 PM	#65
kentuckyrifleman V.I.P. Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 73	Re: Let's do our own poll.... Oh, and Polishshooter I am going to disagree with you here. I respect youre' knowledge on a lot of subjects (fireararms, military, even politics) but that comment "where did you get your degree" was a cheap shot. Just becuase someone did not get a chance to get higher education like you did (and I am not saying you didnt' earn it, Im sure you did) doesn't mean they don't have opinions that are good. From reading your posts for over a year now I geuss, I thought you at least knew what it was to work with your hands. Just going to college doesn't mean youre better then somebody else.

09-20-2012, 08:08 PM	#66
Old Grump Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Little hut in the woods near Blue River Wisconsin Posts: 2,320	Re: Let's do our own poll.... Federalist Party 1789 Anti-Federalist Party 1789 Democratic-Republican Party 1792 Toleration Party 1816 Anti-Masonic Party 1826 National Republican Party 1825 Nullifier Party 1830 Whig Party 1833 Liberty Party 1840 Law and Order Party of Rhode Island 1840 Free Soil Party 1848 Anti-Nebraska Party 1854 American Republican Party 1843 American Party (a.k.a. "Know-Nothings") 1854 Opposition Party 1854 Constitutional Union Party 1860 Unconditional Union Party 1861 National Union Party, 1864 Readjuster Party 1870 People's Party of Utah 1870 Liberal Party (Utah) 1870 Liberal Republican Party 1872 Greenback Party 1874 Socialist Labor Party of America 1876 Anti-Monopoly Party 1884 People's Party (a.k.a. "Populists") 1887 Silver Party 1892 National Democratic Party ("Gold Democrats") 1896 Silver Republican Party 1896 Social Democratic Party 1898 Home Rule Party of Hawaii 1900 Socialist Party of America 1901 Independence Party (a.k.a. "Independence League") 1906 Progressive Party 1912 (a.k.a. "Bull Moose Party") 1912 National Woman's Party 1913 Non-Partisan League 1915 Farmer-Labor Party 1918 Proletarian Party of America 1920 Progressive Party 1924 1924 Communist League of America 1928 American Workers Party 1933 Workers Party of the United States 1934 Union Party 1936) American Labor Party 1936 America First Party 1944 States' Rights Democratic Party (a.k.a. "Dixiecrats") 1948 Progressive Party 1948 Vegetarian Party 1948 Constitution Party 1950s) American Nazi Party 1959– Puerto Rican Socialist Party 1959 Mississippi Freedom Democratic Party 1964 Black Panther Party 1966 Youth International Party (a.k.a. "Yippies") 1967 Communist Workers Party 1969 People's Party 1971 New Union Party 1974 U.S. Labor Party 1975 Concerned Citizens Party 1975 Citizens Party 1979 New Alliance Party 1979 Populist Party of 1s 1984 Looking Back Party 1984 Independent Party of Utah 1988 A Connecticut Party 1990 New Party 1992 Natural Law Party 1992 Veterans Party 2003– Christian Freedom Party 2004 Personal Choice Party 2004 Boston Tea Party 2006 George Washington – no party John Adams - Federalist Thomas Jefferson - Democratic-Republican James Madison - Democratic-Republican James Monroe - Democratic-Republican John Quincy Adams - Democratic-Republican Andrew Jackson – Democratic Martin Van Buren – Democratic William Henry Harrison – Whig John Tyler – Whig/no party James K Polk – Democratic Zachary Taylor – Whig Millard Fillmore - Whig Franklin Pierce – Democratic James Buchanan – Democratic Abraham Lincoln – Republican/National Union Andrew Johnson - Democratic/National Union/No Party The point of this list is there is nothing sacred about the parties in power and the festering corruption in our government is cause enough to replace them. They have only been a two party monopoly since the Civil war and the parties today are a far cry from the charters that established them in the first place. They no longer represent us but themselves and the only way to get them out of office and to put a clean broom in their seat is to have courage and do what is right instead of what EVERYBODY says is right. Bowing to peer pressure is the worst form of pandering to the lowest common denominator and it means nobody but the top monkey is thinking. Tweedle Dee over and out. __________________ "When once a republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil."~~- Thomas Jefferson Roman Catholic, Life Member of American Legion, VFW, Wisconsin Libertarian party, Wi-FORCE, WGO, NRA, JPFO, GOA, SAFand CCRKBA

09-20-2012, 08:30 PM	#67
jstgsn Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Milford, Delaware Contributor Posts: 1,314	Re: Let's do our own poll.... blah blah blah blah.... There is a fight. There are two men in the ring and a ref. Only one of the men can win, so to prove a point you are going to vote for the ref. Not a smart bet in my opinion. It has the same weight as the opinion of the women in the balcony saying the fight should be banned cause they can't choose the winner. After the fight they will complain bitterly. And they will die never having a say in the outcome. __________________ Don’t pick a fight with an old man. If he is too old to fight, he will just kill you.

09-20-2012, 08:44 PM	#68
CampingJosh TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Indiana Contributor Posts: 4,800	Re: Let's do our own poll.... No one here minds a good discussion. Or even a heated one. But let's be done with the name calling. __________________ Nothing posted on TheFirearmsForum.com constitutes legal, accounting, gunsmithing, or other professional advice. Readers are encouraged to consult with qualified professionals for real advice. Your life is lived at your own risk. Don't blame me for the dumb things you do.

09-20-2012, 08:46 PM	#69
polishshooter Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Indiana Contributor Posts: 7,879	Re: Let's do our own poll.... Old Grump, you made my POINT!! How many of them were SUCCESSFUL parties and actually got a President or Control of CONGRESS ELECTED, and HOW did they do it???? ONLY the Federalists and Anti-Federalists...at first... Then the Democrat-Republican which became the Democrat party replaced the Anti-Federalists when they imploded.... THEN the Whigs who replaced the Federalists when THEY imploded.... Then the Republicans who replaced the Whigs when THEY imploded. Since then, ??????? EVERY OTHER PARTY YOU list (so far,) is a FOOTNOTE you looked up on the internet. Before the internet you wouldn't even HAVE the list because they made so little impact on our politics OR History....probably you would have only heard of the Bull Moose party, who caused a highly POPULAR Former President to lose in a LANDSLIDE... One of the MAJOR parties IMPLODED. And "a" "minor" one in the right place at the right time with the right message REPLACED it. That's the ONLY way it works. Just think how EFFECTIVE our system would have been if we gave EACH of them a seat at the table, with maybe 1.27% or so of the vote in congress? Our next President could very WELL be the leader of the "Vegetarian Party" who cobbled together 5.6% of the national vote because of his "Day Job" as the host of a GAME SHOW.... You think what we have NOW is bad, look at the History of ANY "Coalition Democracy" in History!!! You want to have our History run by a government like ITALY has???? Or FRANCE??? We are the ONLY country that has a two party system Democracy....and we have lasted longer and have been more SUCCESSFUL and more FREE than ANY other.... But it AIN'T perfect. Never was, never will BE. But only the BEST ever in History.....so far.... __________________ The problems we face today are there because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living. Last edited by polishshooter; 09-20-2012 at 09:22 PM..

09-20-2012, 09:16 PM	#71
polishshooter Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Indiana Contributor Posts: 7,879	Re: Let's do our own poll.... And oh yeah, I KNOW the old saying... "Never argue with a fool because others won't be able to tell the difference..." You all should know me by now, I am POLISH.....I will argue with ANYBODY....about ANYTHING.... And yeah many times I am FULLY capable of either BEING or BECOMING the "fool" in the argument.... But GOD knows I love to argue!!! And it is MUCH too late in life for me to change.... __________________ The problems we face today are there because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living.

09-21-2012, 09:41 AM	#72
kentuckyrifleman V.I.P. Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 73	Re: Let's do our own poll.... Well Polish if that is realy how you feel then, why do you get all high and mitey about advantages you had that other people dont'. Just because some one didnt' get a chance for a fancy education you should not look down on them. There opinion is just as good as yours'. Arguing is okay but you should not talk down to people like you do just because you think your there betters.

09-21-2012, 09:48 AM	#73
Appliancedude Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: The true northern Cal Posts: 1,610	Re: Let's do our own poll.... Hey man, I'm gonna cut you some slack, but........ Please be so kind as to go back and re read the thread. When someone tell someone else to go read some books and then tries to give facts post #52, they open themselves up for criticism. I think Polish was perfectly fine in what he said. I don't see you criticizing Old Grump for what he said first. Just my take on your post __________________ It ain't broke it just lacks duct tape. The nice thing about opinions is everybody has one.

09-21-2012, 10:02 AM	#74
Double D TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: North Florida Contributor Posts: 8,252	Re: Let's do our own poll.... I completely agree with voting 3rd party. It would be great. Now, someone please show me a real strong third party candidate that this country can really get behind........someone who can stir the people and actually draw the votes...a strong candidate with heart....still waiting.....oh well, maybe next time...I really hope so. I would love to see a patriot type candidate emerge and sweep the nation....its just not Ron Paul...... __________________ I own a bunch of scary guns. You want em? Come and take em..... Liberalism is a serious, non curable, mental disorder... NRA LIFE MEMBER Oath Keepers Member NRA Certified Instructor 30 Yr CC permit holder.

09-21-2012, 10:21 AM	#75
kentuckyrifleman V.I.P. Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 73	Re: Let's do our own poll.... Appliance You might be right I guess when I first got on here Polishs posts were the reason I decided to join the TFF. So I guess I tend to follow his posts and kinda looked up to him, so maybe I took what he said to personal becuase I did not get a chance for to much education.