Innocent man murdered by Cops, Germany cira 1943? Nope, America 2012! - The Firearms Forum

firefighter1635 · 09-23-2012, 08:46 AM

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=95...1#.UF52CI2PWVD

Quote:

A 61-year-old man was shot to death by

police while his wife was handcuffed in another room during a drug

raid on the wrong house.

Police admitted their mistake, saying faulty information from a drug informant contributed to the death of John Adams Wednesday night. They intended to raid the home next door.

The two officers, 25-year-old Kyle Shedran and 24-year-old Greg Day, were placed on administrative leave with pay.

Paid vacation for killing an innocent man?

Some might think these are isolated incedents, I beg to differ.
http://www.cato.org/raidmap/

Double D · 09-23-2012, 08:55 AM

And the stories continue to roll in......

ozo · 09-23-2012, 08:58 AM

Onward we go......stepping in 'it' with both feet !

kermit · 09-23-2012, 09:57 AM

when will officer be eligable for parole?

carver · 09-23-2012, 10:19 AM

“We did the best surveillance we could do, and a mistake was made,” Lebanon Police Chief Billy Weeks said. “It’s a very severe mistake, a costly mistake. It makes us look at our own policies and procedures to make sure this never occurs again.” He said, however, the two policemen were not at fault.

If the officers involved were not at fault, then who's fault was it? The man protecting his home?

Gun Geezer · 09-23-2012, 10:26 AM

It's a tragic mistake to be sure, but it should be just as tragic for the two cops!

carver · 09-23-2012, 10:26 AM

http://www.cato.org/raidmap/

I sure am glad that someone is keeping track of these incidents!

ozo · 09-23-2012, 10:47 AM

What does this map mean?

The proliferation of SWAT teams, police militarization, and the Drug War have given rise to a dramatic increase in the number of "no-knock" or "quick-knock" raids on suspected drug offenders. Because these raids are often conducted based on tips from notoriously unreliable confidential informants, police sometimes conduct SWAT-style raids on the wrong home, or on the homes of nonviolent, misdemeanor drug users. Such highly-volatile, overly confrontational tactics are bad enough when no one is hurt -- it's difficult to imagine the terror an innocent suspect or family faces when a SWAT team mistakenly breaks down their door in the middle of the night.

But even more disturbing are the number of times such "wrong door" raids unnecessarily lead to the injury or death of suspects, bystanders, and police officers. Defenders of SWAT teams and paramilitary tactics say such incidents are isolated and rare. The map below aims to refute that notion.

http://www.cato.org/raidmap/#

"If a widespread pattern of [knock-and-announce] violations were shown . . . there would be reason for grave concern."

—Supreme Court Justice Anthony Kennedy, in Hudson v. Michigan, June 15, 2006.

millwright · 09-23-2012, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carver

“We did the best surveillance we could do, and a mistake was made,” Lebanon Police Chief Billy Weeks said. “It’s a very severe mistake, a costly mistake. It makes us look at our own policies and procedures to make sure this never occurs again.” He said, however, the two policemen were not at fault.

If the officers involved were not at fault, then who's fault was it? The man protecting his home?

[bold added]

But Mr. Weeks and his officers didn't pay the "ultimate price" - and won't pay the costs of the inevitable lawsuit settlement - so how is it "costly" to them ?

Back when former POTUS "Tricky Dick" Nixon declared the "War on Drugs" many of us proclaimed the first casuality would be American's freedom, the second random Americans caught up in the "fog of war" . Seems we just added another. Perhaps they ought to have a "wall" as well ! Might just serve to highlight how many are "collateral casualties" in this war. Might even be a good idea to add other "Walls' for victims of the Patriot Act, OF&F (and its "spinoffs"), to note but just two. >MW

gvw3 · 09-23-2012, 04:42 PM

This has been out of control for a long time. In the 1970's it happened in a neighborhood I lived in. Man was shot in his living room watching tv. Killed in front of his wife and 3 kids.

Indiana just passed a law this year on this. Not real sure on how this law works but if you have a cop breaking in your house you can shoot them. Some one from Indiana could tell it better.

montezumaz · 09-23-2012, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carver

Q: If the officers involved were not at fault, then who's fault was it?

A: Lebanon Police Chief Billy Weeks

CampingJosh · 09-23-2012, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gvw3

This has been out of control for a long time. In the 1970's it happened in a neighborhood I lived in. Man was shot in his living room watching tv. Killed in front of his wife and 3 kids.

Indiana just passed a law this year on this. Not real sure on how this law works but if you have a cop breaking in your house you can shoot them. Some one from Indiana could tell it better.

The Indiana Supreme Court had ruled that people have no right to self defense from a police officer. That means that if an officer were to break into your house, you can't resist him. Fight the battle in court, not at night in your home.

The state's attorney who got that decision (a decision in his favor) immediately asked the court to reconsider. Even he said it went way too far.

But the court didn't change their opinion, so the legislature stepped up to it. Strengthened the castle doctrine law to specifically include police.

At least that's my recollection of it. It's been awhile since it happened, and I haven't read anything about it for many months.

Jim K · 09-23-2012, 09:31 PM

It will never happen again. Until next week. Does how you vote or what political signs you have in your yard determine if there will be a "mistaken drug raid" on your house?

Jim

Jerryboy · 09-23-2012, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim K

It will never happen again. Until next week. Does how you vote or what political signs you have in your yard determine if there will be a "mistaken drug raid" on your house?

Jim

hm, perhaps someone should start a group that goes around interviewing victims of these "mistaken drug raids"...

dad2thebone · 09-23-2012, 10:03 PM

I see how it could happen. no excuses they screwed the pooch. and now need to pay for what went on as well as the Ci and the clown running the show.

Blackhawk Dave · 09-25-2012, 12:22 PM

Police have immunity to lawsuits. Unless the evidence can prove actual murder by the cops, just "collateral damage" in the War on Drugs.

graehaven · 09-25-2012, 01:15 PM

More jack-booted thuggery.

Silencer · 09-26-2012, 12:50 PM

More proof we need to end the stupid war on drugs, legalize everything and tax the hell out of it.

09-23-2012, 08:55 AM	#2
Double D TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: North Florida Contributor Posts: 8,062	Re: Innocent man murdered by Cops, Germany cira 1943? Nope, America 2012! And the stories continue to roll in...... __________________ I own a bunch of scary guns. You want em? Come and take em..... Liberalism is a serious, non curable, mental disorder... NRA LIFE MEMBER Oath Keepers Member NRA Certified Instructor 30 Yr CC permit holder.

09-23-2012, 08:58 AM	#3
ozo Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Nashville TN Posts: 2,770	Re: Innocent man murdered by Cops, Germany cira 1943? Nope, America 2012! Onward we go......stepping in 'it' with both feet ! __________________ http://www.nranews.com/#/nranews, "ozo. you're off your rocker sir." -johnlives4christ http://www.prisonplanet.com/ -America,Bless GOD-

09-23-2012, 09:57 AM	#4
kermit Member Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 38	Re: Innocent man murdered by Cops, Germany cira 1943? Nope, America 2012! when will officer be eligable for parole?

09-23-2012, 10:19 AM	#5
carver TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: DAV, Deep in the Pineywoods of East Texas, just west of Shreveport, LA Contributor Posts: 11,251	Re: Innocent man murdered by Cops, Germany cira 1943? Nope, America 2012! “We did the best surveillance we could do, and a mistake was made,” Lebanon Police Chief Billy Weeks said. “It’s a very severe mistake, a costly mistake. It makes us look at our own policies and procedures to make sure this never occurs again.” He said, however, the two policemen were not at fault. If the officers involved were not at fault, then who's fault was it? The man protecting his home? __________________ Y'all be safe now, ya hear! Lamentations Chapter 5: 1. Remember, O LORD, what is come upon us: consider, and behold our reproach. 2. Our inheritance is turned to strangers, our houses to aliens. 3. We are orphans and fatherless, our mothers [are] as widows. 5. Our necks [are] under persecution: we labour, [and] have no rest. 16. The crown is fallen [from] our head: woe unto us, that we have sinned! 21. Turn thou us unto thee, O LORD, and we shall be turned; renew our days as of old.

09-23-2012, 10:26 AM	#6
Gun Geezer Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Central Florida Posts: 1,710	Re: Innocent man murdered by Cops, Germany cira 1943? Nope, America 2012! It's a tragic mistake to be sure, but it should be just as tragic for the two cops! __________________ If voting could change anything for the better, It'd already be illegal.

09-23-2012, 10:47 AM	#8
ozo Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Nashville TN Posts: 2,770	Re: Innocent man murdered by Cops, Germany cira 1943? Nope, America 2012! What does this map mean? The proliferation of SWAT teams, police militarization, and the Drug War have given rise to a dramatic increase in the number of "no-knock" or "quick-knock" raids on suspected drug offenders. Because these raids are often conducted based on tips from notoriously unreliable confidential informants, police sometimes conduct SWAT-style raids on the wrong home, or on the homes of nonviolent, misdemeanor drug users. Such highly-volatile, overly confrontational tactics are bad enough when no one is hurt -- it's difficult to imagine the terror an innocent suspect or family faces when a SWAT team mistakenly breaks down their door in the middle of the night. But even more disturbing are the number of times such "wrong door" raids unnecessarily lead to the injury or death of suspects, bystanders, and police officers. Defenders of SWAT teams and paramilitary tactics say such incidents are isolated and rare. The map below aims to refute that notion. http://www.cato.org/raidmap/# "If a widespread pattern of [knock-and-announce] violations were shown . . . there would be reason for grave concern." —Supreme Court Justice Anthony Kennedy, in Hudson v. Michigan, June 15, 2006. __________________ http://www.nranews.com/#/nranews, "ozo. you're off your rocker sir." -johnlives4christ http://www.prisonplanet.com/ -America,Bless GOD- Last edited by ozo; 09-23-2012 at 10:48 AM..

09-23-2012, 04:42 PM	#10
gvw3 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Chicago IL Area Contributor Posts: 3,273	Re: Innocent man murdered by Cops, Germany cira 1943? Nope, America 2012! This has been out of control for a long time. In the 1970's it happened in a neighborhood I lived in. Man was shot in his living room watching tv. Killed in front of his wife and 3 kids. Indiana just passed a law this year on this. Not real sure on how this law works but if you have a cop breaking in your house you can shoot them. Some one from Indiana could tell it better. __________________ Criminals advocate stronger gun laws to foster a safer work environment. This limits their exposure to risk.

09-23-2012, 09:31 PM	#13
Jim K Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 6,408	Re: Innocent man murdered by Cops, Germany cira 1943? Nope, America 2012! It will never happen again. Until next week. Does how you vote or what political signs you have in your yard determine if there will be a "mistaken drug raid" on your house? Jim

09-23-2012, 10:03 PM	#15
dad2thebone Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 1,357	Re: Innocent man murdered by Cops, Germany cira 1943? Nope, America 2012! I see how it could happen. no excuses they screwed the pooch. and now need to pay for what went on as well as the Ci and the clown running the show. __________________ 9-11-01 we will never forget.And then we have dec 7 now it's Nov 6th all sad days for our country. And dont whizz on my leg then tell me it's raining.

09-25-2012, 12:22 PM	#16
Blackhawk Dave Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Denton, TX Posts: 593	Re: Innocent man murdered by Cops, Germany cira 1943? Nope, America 2012! Police have immunity to lawsuits. Unless the evidence can prove actual murder by the cops, just "collateral damage" in the War on Drugs.

09-25-2012, 01:15 PM	#17
graehaven Advanced Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Upstate NY Posts: 2,853	Re: Innocent man murdered by Cops, Germany cira 1943? Nope, America 2012! More jack-booted thuggery. __________________ The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." - Thomas Jefferson RESISTANCE IS FEUDAL... PREPARE TO SERVE.

09-26-2012, 12:50 PM	#18
Silencer Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Southern California: Inland Empire Posts: 1,293	Re: Innocent man murdered by Cops, Germany cira 1943? Nope, America 2012! More proof we need to end the stupid war on drugs, legalize everything and tax the hell out of it. __________________ War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. Skeet Shooting Game! Don't Shoot Your Eye Out!