Is Carrying A Gun A Crime Even With A Carry License? - The Firearms Forum

montezumaz · 09-19-2012, 09:24 PM

FL Supreme Court To Decide!
http://www.ammoland.com/2012/09/18/f...#axzz26y9Ck9py

In 1987 Florida changed its law to create a statewide licensing system for concealed carry. This did away with the former law that based the licensing of concealed and unconcealed carry with County Commissions. This was the famous “Shall-Issue” law that made Florida the prototype for concealed carry laws nationwide. Today nearly 1-million people have current Concealed Carry Licenses under this law. The problem is that when the law was changed, the legislature didn’t use the general rule of statutory language construction that was used in the previous statute. This gave prosecutors another bite at the apple. The courts started to ignore the legislature’s intent and instead, just looked to the technical structure of the updated concealed carry statutes.
Now the courts are saying that anytime you carry a firearm you are committing a crime. If you have a concealed carry license, that just gives you an “affirmative defense” to the charges. In order for the police to stop and frisk or arrest you, they must first observe facts supporting a reasonable suspicion that a suspect is engaged in criminal activity or have information suggesting the possession of a firearm is unlawful. Now, under the Mackey decision, any time you exercise your Second Amendment right you are engaged in presumably criminal activity. Therefore, you can be stopped, searched, and even arrested for carrying a firearm and then be made to present the “affirmative defense” to a judge that you have a valid concealed carry license. - Florida Carry

WHSmithIV · 09-19-2012, 09:59 PM

Now, that's just plain weird.

Alpo · 09-19-2012, 10:24 PM

I don't see where they could get that from.

>790.01 Carrying concealed weapons.—
(1) Except as provided in subsection (4), a person who carries a concealed weapon or electric weapon or device on or about his or her person commits a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.
(2) A person who carries a concealed firearm on or about his or her person commits a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.
(3) This section does not apply to a person licensed to carry a concealed weapon or a concealed firearm pursuant to the provisions of s. 790.06.
(4) It is not a violation of this section for a person to carry for purposes of lawful self-defense, in a concealed manner:
(a) A self-defense chemical spray.
(b) A nonlethal stun gun or dart-firing stun gun or other nonlethal electric weapon or device that is designed solely for defensive purposes.
(5) This section does not preclude any prosecution for the use of an electric weapon or device, a dart-firing stun gun, or a self-defense chemical spray during the commission of any criminal offense <

Hmmmm. Section 2 - A person who carries a concealed firearm commits a felony. Section 3 - THIS DOES NOT APPLY TO PEOPLE WITH A LICENSE TO CARRY A CONCEALED WEAPON.

stumpjumper · 09-20-2012, 08:36 PM

yeah, i looked at that also. could not find a date on this mackey decision. I'll just keep to following the current laws

al45lc · 09-21-2012, 02:11 PM

"Engaged in presumably criminal activity"? From a COURT?
Think about it, that in itself violates your Constitutional right to innocence until proven otherwise.
Courts aren't supposed to presume, only interpret.
What Pre-Law idiot came up with this?
I wouldn't give this a second thought, it wouldn't hold up in any State Supreme Court.
AND since the State itself did the licensing, that would open it to lawsuits.
You can bet this will be on the State Courts mind.

therewolf · 09-21-2012, 02:25 PM

Sorry, nice try.

I, for one, will continue to carry.

I've followed all guidelines, and attempted in

all respects, to obey the law. The law states I

can carry. They even made a superseding law to

eliminate individual town statutes.

IMHO the intent and written word of the law

are clear.

09-19-2012, 09:24 PM	#1
montezumaz Former Guest Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Central AZ (Yavapai County) Posts: 653	Is Carrying A Gun A Crime Even With A Carry License? FL Supreme Court To Decide! http://www.ammoland.com/2012/09/18/f...#axzz26y9Ck9py In 1987 Florida changed its law to create a statewide licensing system for concealed carry. This did away with the former law that based the licensing of concealed and unconcealed carry with County Commissions. This was the famous “Shall-Issue” law that made Florida the prototype for concealed carry laws nationwide. Today nearly 1-million people have current Concealed Carry Licenses under this law. The problem is that when the law was changed, the legislature didn’t use the general rule of statutory language construction that was used in the previous statute. This gave prosecutors another bite at the apple. The courts started to ignore the legislature’s intent and instead, just looked to the technical structure of the updated concealed carry statutes. Now the courts are saying that anytime you carry a firearm you are committing a crime. If you have a concealed carry license, that just gives you an “affirmative defense” to the charges. In order for the police to stop and frisk or arrest you, they must first observe facts supporting a reasonable suspicion that a suspect is engaged in criminal activity or have information suggesting the possession of a firearm is unlawful. Now, under the Mackey decision, any time you exercise your Second Amendment right you are engaged in presumably criminal activity. Therefore, you can be stopped, searched, and even arrested for carrying a firearm and then be made to present the “affirmative defense” to a judge that you have a valid concealed carry license. - Florida Carry -->

09-19-2012, 09:59 PM	#2
WHSmithIV Advanced Senior Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: Moore, Idaho contributor Posts: 2,650	Re: Is Carrying A Gun A Crime Even With A Carry License? Now, that's just plain weird.

09-19-2012, 10:24 PM	#3
Alpo Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: NW Florida Posts: 8,664	Re: Is Carrying A Gun A Crime Even With A Carry License? I don't see where they could get that from. >790.01 Carrying concealed weapons.— (1) Except as provided in subsection (4), a person who carries a concealed weapon or electric weapon or device on or about his or her person commits a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083. (2) A person who carries a concealed firearm on or about his or her person commits a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084. (3) This section does not apply to a person licensed to carry a concealed weapon or a concealed firearm pursuant to the provisions of s. 790.06. (4) It is not a violation of this section for a person to carry for purposes of lawful self-defense, in a concealed manner: (a) A self-defense chemical spray. (b) A nonlethal stun gun or dart-firing stun gun or other nonlethal electric weapon or device that is designed solely for defensive purposes. (5) This section does not preclude any prosecution for the use of an electric weapon or device, a dart-firing stun gun, or a self-defense chemical spray during the commission of any criminal offense < Hmmmm. Section 2 - A person who carries a concealed firearm commits a felony. Section 3 - THIS DOES NOT APPLY TO PEOPLE WITH A LICENSE TO CARRY A CONCEALED WEAPON. __________________ Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy, and taste good with catsup - George of Lod, Year of Our Lord 297 I always take precautions. Beware the Evil Bullet Fairies.

09-20-2012, 08:36 PM	#4
stumpjumper Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: swflorida Contributor Posts: 655	Re: Is Carrying A Gun A Crime Even With A Carry License? yeah, i looked at that also. could not find a date on this mackey decision. I'll just keep to following the current laws __________________ after three rounds you're just making noise Guns have only two enemies rust and politicians

09-21-2012, 02:11 PM	#5
al45lc Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: colorful colorado Posts: 1,016	Re: Is Carrying A Gun A Crime Even With A Carry License? "Engaged in presumably criminal activity"? From a COURT? Think about it, that in itself violates your Constitutional right to innocence until proven otherwise. Courts aren't supposed to presume, only interpret. What Pre-Law idiot came up with this? I wouldn't give this a second thought, it wouldn't hold up in any State Supreme Court. AND since the State itself did the licensing, that would open it to lawsuits. You can bet this will be on the State Courts mind. __________________ You are what you do, when it counts.

09-21-2012, 02:25 PM	#6
therewolf V.I.P. Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: New Port Richey, Fl. Posts: 166	Re: Is Carrying A Gun A Crime Even With A Carry License? Sorry, nice try. I, for one, will continue to carry. I've followed all guidelines, and attempted in all respects, to obey the law. The law states I can carry. They even made a superseding law to eliminate individual town statutes. IMHO the intent and written word of the law are clear.