A possible useful addition to home defense

[armoredman]

Something many people don't consider is when you get yanked out of bed by the alarm shrilling, the dogs barking, the lovely sound of breaking glass as the bad guys struggle to break through the bars, you have a few choices...walk downstairs in your slippers with your pistol in one hand, cell phone in the other, wondering what is going on. I rather don't like that idea. First, my jammies are relatively bullet permeable, and I have no reason to go any farther than my son's bedroom to get him back to the safe room. I also like to use whatever advantages I can get and I scored a new recently, something that is very easy and fast to use. What I have is a new get up from a local shop called AR500 Armor.com, a steel plate armor manufacturer. http://www.ar500armor.com/index.php





Before I get into detail, think about the irony here - the Romans started the manufacture of back and breast curiass style armor over 2000 years ago, which use ended with the Spanish Conquistadors...and has made its return, 400 years later. Just goes to show a good idea never dies completely.


The setup I got is this one, http://www.ar500armor.com/index.php?...oduct_id=29906, a complete setup with plates, carrier and pouches. I will have to say, I have never used MOLLE before, and had no idea how to thread these darn things on, but I got thw two mag pouches to get on. I have a coyote brown AK mag pouch I wanted to use with the SA vz-58 7.72x39mm version,(anyone know how to thread those weird plastic dealies that come with Blackhawk gear?), but the included AR-15 mag pouch just happens to work well with the SA vz-58 5.56mm version. The pistol mag was easier to put on, and I will likely set it up with one pistol mag and a flashlight in the other side. I'd like to get a single mag pouch for rifle, and a cell phone holder - if I have to change magazines more than once, I stayed there too long.



I did get a few quick pictures today, nothing dramatic,




Ok, ONE dramatic picture. :lol:

This is a good view of how I have this one setup, but I think I will adjust it to sit lower on the chest. This has the twin pistol mag pouch with two CZ 75 SP-01 magazines, and twin AR-15 mag pouch with two Brownells aluminum 30 round mags loaded with 45 grain Varmint HP ammo.




You can also see the Shooters Cut on the armor does allow better positioning of the rifle - the butt doesn't sit on a corner of a plate, pounding you with every shot.

http://www.ar500armor.com/index.php?...oduct_id=29778

This stuff is NOT light, each panel weighs 7.5 pounds, so figure on 18 pounds with loaded gear to throw on at a moments notice. The twin fast plastic buckles on the sides means you can leave on locked and one open to slide through, click it shut, and you have phone, reloads and flashlight, right there. Grab your rifle/subgun/shotgun/pistol and go. Not something I'd want to wear running around in the woods, not an my age and gut size, but for a HOLY RUSTED METAL, BATMAN, moment, yeah, it'll do.

It isn't something most people would think of, I admit, but it has two advantages that many people won't realize - it's FAR cheaper than comparable soft body armor. Soft armor is concealable, and the very good stuff tends to crowd the $1000 mark here in the US. This complete setup is just over $200. This particular carrier is NOT meant for all day use, but for occasional use - they do have a very nice carrier that would work for regular duty use. http://www.ar500armor.com/index.php?...oduct_id=29934
I might invest in a better carrier later...when I've lost some weight and don't look like a jellyroll squirting out the sides.

In any case, I thought I'd throw that out there. Obviously, this has to be part of a layered defense strategy - if all you are relying on is the sound of breaking glass giving you plenty of warning, I fear you may be mistaken. :what: But when you can build that layer of time between the outside and your tender pink rear end, this item could be a life saving asset.

Author's note - the above photos are for product demonstration purposes only, and should not be misinterpreted as encouraging anyone to go "hunting" in the home or engage in house clearing activities. This item should be used in addition to your normal precautions, and with training, if available in your area.

[aa1911]

yep, good armor is a huge plus. Got mine ready to go; for shooting a long gun, put the buttstock of your rifle almost in the center of your plates rather than in the normal position in your shoulder. Much more stable and easier to manipulate plus it forces you to stay squared off with the threat; you want to face the threat and present the plate rather than turn sideways in a traditional shooting position.

just my .02, armor is a very good addition for home defense.

[Snakedriver]

Not to discourage anybody, body armor does have it's place, but the truth is it really only works well with pistol rounds and shotgun pellets. Rifle rounds will just punch right through it like it isn't there. Even fairly thick steel plates will be penetrated by most common rifle rounds. Blunt force trauma to soft tissue will occur through soft armor and can often be enough to take you out of the fight even if there isn't a big hole in your body. IMO, it gives a false sense of security that isn't warranted.

[armoredman]

Snake, this is Level III - it stops 7.62x39mm, .223 and 7.62x51, aka .308. These particular plates have been tested with 5.56mm Green Tip armor piercing at 15 yards by the company I received this setup from, with no penetration. Video link here,

http://www.ar500armor.com/index.php?...view&page_id=5

I use a steel plate of the exact same grade material for a target, and have shot it many times with both .223 and 7.62x39mm, factory and handloaded, with no damage whatsoever.

Soft armor DOES deform, and can lead to blunt force trauma, BUT that can also be overstated, please look here,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIhyETXW1u0

And here,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=VDRRJZ6rJBY

Not disagreeing with you, but the effects are overstated. I had hard trauma plates on my early IIIA vests, and then soft trauma plates. Off on the side, the earliest IIIA vests were alomst as heavy as this thing, not quite, but it sure felt like it, especially after 11 hours working out of an armored truck!

A better look at hard armor can be seen on the movie Deadly Weapons, where a man wearing a hard vest stands on one foot while Rich Davis shoots him with an FAL at a range of approximately 5 inches. Twice. He didn't fall over. That was armor from 1985 - http://www.amazon.com/Deadly-Weapons.../dp/B00009YP7P

I don't plan on wearing this thing 24/7, and the distributor also agrees this particular vest is not suited for long term wear, but for short and ugly times.

[soundguy]

i got a 2nd chance and a couple k31's will just have to do..

[Snakedriver]

Originally Posted by armoredman

Snake, this is Level III - it stops 7.62x39mm, .223 and 7.62x51, aka .308. These particular plates have been tested with 5.56mm Green Tip armor piercing at 15 yards by the company I received this setup from, with no penetration. Video link here,

http://www.ar500armor.com/index.php?...view&page_id=5

I use a steel plate of the exact same grade material for a target, and have shot it many times with both .223 and 7.62x39mm, factory and handloaded, with no damage whatsoever.

Soft armor DOES deform, and can lead to blunt force trauma, BUT that can also be overstated, please look here,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIhyETXW1u0

And here,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=VDRRJZ6rJBY

Not disagreeing with you, but the effects are overstated. I had hard trauma plates on my early IIIA vests, and then soft trauma plates. Off on the side, the earliest IIIA vests were alomst as heavy as this thing, not quite, but it sure felt like it, especially after 11 hours working out of an armored truck!

A better look at hard armor can be seen on the movie Deadly Weapons, where a man wearing a hard vest stands on one foot while Rich Davis shoots him with an FAL at a range of approximately 5 inches. Twice. He didn't fall over. That was armor from 1985 - http://www.amazon.com/Deadly-Weapons.../dp/B00009YP7P

I don't plan on wearing this thing 24/7, and the distributor also agrees this particular vest is not suited for long term wear, but for short and ugly times.

Hey I'm not too hard headed to admit when I'm wrong, the whole thing looks very well thought out. It's just that I've punched a lot of holes through 1/2" mild steel with pretty much standard rifle rounds in my lifetime. High strength steel or ceramic armor may fair better. If your armor set-up allows you to stay in the fight even while sustaining hits, then it's done it's job very well.

[soundguy]

Originally Posted by Snakedriver

Hey I'm not too hard headed to admit when I'm wrong, the whole thing looks very well thought out. It's just that I've punched a lot of holes through 1/2" mild steel with pretty much standard rifle rounds in my lifetime. High strength steel or ceramic armor may fair better. If your armor set-up allows you to stay in the fight even while sustaining hits, then it's done it's job very well.

I tend to agree with you.. I have one of those spining target setups.. has playing card silo's IE.. spades, clubs, diamonds.. etc.. marked for pistol and rimfire. it's spinners are full 1/2" steel plate

we took it shooting one day.. at ? 30yds my buddies 30-06 perforated the plate... didn't blow a hole full diameter all the way thru.. but did make a divot your finger would fit in, and the metal at the back of the divot perforated and jacket material did exit the perforation, with some staying in, and some back splash sent back that hit NEAR the fireing line.. scaring us all when we heard a ricochet near us!!!!! I'm sure some soft body armor like a kevlar or balistic nylon shrap vest would have retained those jacket fragments exiting the plate.. but.. i imagine it would be an awefull blunt force wound.. and if no soft body armor behind the plate.. there would have most deffinately been body cavity penetration...

considering the average shooting distance in a home invasion is going to be 'feet' and not 30yds.... i'd say if the attacker is using a 'full sized' / hunting caliber centerfire rifle.. the defender is gonna be in for some hurting.

hopefully the defender has the upper hand with home turf and adequate cover and 1st shot.

[jedwil]

Can't imagine wearing the stuff unless total mayhem has taken over. But, I don't live in a big city.

[armoredman]

Snake, you weren't entirely wrong, and I appreciate your candor, sir. It's just AR500 is nothing like mild steel at all. The same for the spinner - it's rated for pistol, so I'm not surprised a 30-06 perforated it.
I will be giving away an AR500 target on my website soon..
Edit to add, jed, I would hate to HAVE to use this stuff too - it means the wheels have come ALL the way off the wagon! And while I live in a very small town, we are scant miles from the "drug corridor" the federal government "ceded" to the cartels.

[soundguy]

yep.. lets face it.. if we as civies are down to wearing -ANY- type of body armor to survice.. the 'it' has hit the fan as another thread would put it.

[aa1911]

the plates I have are rated to take up to at least 3 successive hits from armor piercing 7.62 NATO ammunition so no worries! Underneath that is another layer of level III which will stop most pistol rounds.

There are good lightweight polymer plates out now that only weight in at around 2.5lbs, the stuff I have now is about 8 lbs per plate, plus I have 6x6" side plates as well as the level III flak layer so I'm pushing 40lbs of combined weight for just the armor. Then I'm adding ammo, water, my work armor is usually right around 90-100 lbs so slicked down armor by itself is a real treat.

even with armor on, getting hit ain't no picnic but it sure beats the alternative. Body armor is a tried and true life saver hands down.

[dad2thebone]

I still have my my vest and even though it's meant to be worn on an 8-10 hr shift while driving , it doesnt match what todays leos wear. In the summertime it was one hot piece and i hated wearing it. yours seems a bunch more thought out. good show.

[WHSmithIV]

hmm - somehow I don't think that if I have to get up in the middle of the night because the dogs are barking and glass is breaking that I'm really going to have time to put on body armor and I'm definitely not going to sleep with it on. I think I'll go with whatever of my trusty pistols is handy and use the 'shoot first ask questions later' home defense method.

[aa1911]

yeah, there's for sure times that won't warrant time to suit up but it's a nice option to have if you have about 10 seconds to spare.

[armoredman]

That's the way I feel, too, nice to have if I can use it. The layers of security are exactly that - layers that can be peeled back by someone really determined to do it. The average burglar would probably leave at the sound of alarms and dogs, but today's crackhead or face eating bath salts smoker, might not care.
WHSmithIV, I also agree, if the situation is dire, go for the gun, flashlight and cell phone. I hope my layers can keep someone at bay long enough for me to utilize the most effective tool sat my disposal, but alternatively, I hope I never ever have to test the theory.

[carver]

I've given a lot of thought to this over the last few years, and have come to the conclusion that body armor is not something I need. I live in the sticks. If I hear a bump in the night, I grab the 12ga shotgun by my bed, and there is a .45 right beside it on the night stand. If they walk thru all that lead, body armor ain't going to help me!

[gun runner]

Armor? Sounds like a good idea.

[Country101]

I just want to reitterate the fact that all metal is not the same. Plates in body armor are ballistically tested. Meaning that they are hardened and are able to withstand more than a common mild steel or most alloys. It's amazing what a bullet can do to mild steel that is 3/8". But anything that is marketed as body armor or ballistic steel has been tested to withstand certain calibers and a certain number of hits. Not all metal is made equal. That's why if you buy ballistic steel, you are paying high dollar.

[soundguy]

Originally Posted by WHSmithIV

hmm - somehow I don't thank that if I have to get up in the middle of the night because the dogs are barking and glass is breaking that I'm really going to have time to put on body armor and I'm definitely not going to sleep with it on. I think I'll go with whatever of my trusty pistols is handy and use the 'shoot first ask questions later' home defense method.

yup.. for me and the wife.. that's a tactical led super bright and a 38 on each side of our bed.. and a shotgun in a 'hidden' accessable spot that either of us can get from the bed... between those 3.. we will just have to make do.. if more thugs are storming my house.. I'll have to get out of bed and walk 3' to another secure spot for more firepower...

[graehaven]

What about ricochet, and the bullet traveling up into your head, or down into an appendage. I've always understood metal armor to be inferior to ceramic plates due to the potential of ricochet. How do these mitigate that risk, or don't they?

[soundguy]

any balistic covering on them that might disipate energy?

I have seen some armor that used metal or ceramic plates inside of a balistic carrier.. the carrier was there to catch fragments ( disipate energy )...

[targetacqmgt]

Originally Posted by soundguy

yep.. lets face it.. if we as civies are down to wearing -ANY- type of body armor to survice.. the 'it' has hit the fan as another thread would put it.

Brother IMO we are close to **it. If the paper dollar continues to devalue on the world mkt (uh we buy how much stuff from the PRC?? go into Wallymart and look at the Made in XXX on the bottom of the product. H*ll here in NC we get Gala Apples from CHILE. We borrowed 2 TRILLION dollars from the PRC to finance the last 15 years of warfighting (that is something like 2/9th of to t-bill debt). There is virtually NO CASH except current qtrly deposits in the SS and Medicare accounts (LBJ I think over 50 years ago started that). I give it maybe 5 years or 10 on the outside before we start hauling wheel barrows full of 100 dollar bills to buy a loaf of bread IF WE DO START COLLECTING TAXES FROM THE tens of billions of people in this country who pay NO federal taxes.

No welfare workfare yes!!

[soundguy]

isn't it some south african country where inflation was in the multiple digits, and their paper money was so devalued that essentially it took a million dollars to buy bread?

[CampingJosh]

Originally Posted by targetacqmgt

I give it maybe 5 years or 10 on the outside before we start hauling wheel barrows full of 100 dollar bills to buy a loaf of bread IF WE DO START COLLECTING TAXES FROM THE tens of billions of people in this country who pay NO federal taxes.

Only about 310 million total people in the US. There aren't ten billion people in the world, let alone tens of billions in our country.

Yeah, everyone needs to pay taxes, and we need to cut spending by about 2/3. But arguments that are so factually ignorant don't help the cause.

Originally Posted by soundguy

isn't it some south african country where inflation was in the multiple digits, and their paper money was so devalued that essentially it took a million dollars to buy bread?

Zimbabwe. They use US dollars as currency now because no one will trust currency their government produces. Just moved from one fiat currency to another.
More evidence that those pushing gold as the only thing worth anything in an economic collapse don't really know what they're talking about.

[Rocketman1]

Hummmm.. what ever floats your boat.

If someone breaks in at 3:00 am I don't think I'm going to worry about putting on body armor. Gun and phone are right beside my bed, and I'm ready to go. Most home invasions happen during the daytime hours as well. However I do see a use for body armor, if the entire society as we know it has already broken down, or for some unknown reason a lunch mob were after me.