Why Damascus Steel?

[OneFatCat]

I am in the market for a nice hand made Bowie and was wondering why Makers like to use Damascus steel so much is it mostly becasue of looks or is there a spicific reason? I found this knife that I like and it is Damascus steel ...

OFC

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[permafrost]

OFC,
I don't know anything about knives, which is why I've kept my trap shut through all the ones you been showin' to Mr. DeShiv's, but I know what I like and that one is beautiful! Some times they speak to ya'.

[Jay]

That's a nice looking knife. Basically, Damascus steel is alternating layers of hard and soft steels, thus gaining the best that both steels have to offer. This article explains it better than I can.

http://www.4openair.com/skdamascus.htm

[Alpo]

Damascus swords - the REAL Damascus steel, made in the city of Damascus, has had a reputation for hundreds of years. You could, supposedly, take the hilt in one hand, the point in the other, and bend the blade so that the point would touch the hilt. Then release the tip and the blade would straighten out, and there would be no damage. You could hold the edge upward, and drop a silk cloth on the edge, and the weight of the cloth falling on the edge would cut the cloth in half. Because of this reputation, people WANT Damascus blades. I don't believe modern Damascus will do that. Not even sure if I believe Damascus would do that five or six hundred years ago.

The secret of making that great Damascus sword steel disappeared. No one knew how to do it for hundreds of years. Then, some thirty-forty years ago, it was rediscovered. Yes, it is extremely pretty. It is possible that the stuff made today is better knife steel than other steels. But I think the sales are caused more from the 600-year-old reputation and the pretty, than anything else.

I do know that Damascus knives are expensive as hell. Don't really know why, when you can buy a Damascus blade for thirty bucks.
https://www.atlantacutlery.com/p-935...ger-blade.aspx

[permafrost]

I'm like you, Alpo. I doubt todays craftmen have the knowledge or determination and skill required to turn out something like a real Samurai sword. I think it took month's of skilled labor to complete one correctly.

[Brisk44]

Todays market is driven strictly by sales volume there is no time for the truely top notch craftmanship.

[Hawg]

Modern damascus is made from twisting together strands of different strengths of steel wire, then hammer welding it. Some knife makers use wire cable which leaves a nice symetrical pattern but isn't as good.

[Zhurh]

I have a buddy from Georgia, his brother has been up here to Alaska hunting a few times. His Brother has a forge, makes super nice knives. Every fall, my buddy shows up with another knife or two and I buy them everytime; pretty nice damascus blades. I even have a few skinning/cutting up knives that are damascus; work just fine and seem to hold an edge longer for me. I throw them in the gun vault, kids will appreciate the knives someday I figure.

[Country101]

Damascus is folded sheets of thin steel hammer welded together. The qualities can definately vary.

There is a guy at silver dollar city in Branson, MO that makes knives and has some VERY nice knives. Some are demascus. He was actually a metallurgist for years before making knives. He's good on a forge too. The trick to any knife is the hardness of the blade and the flexibility in it as well. The blade and the "backbone" are tempered to differant stiffnesses. This guy does a good job with them. His demos are awesome. He takes a knife he has made and will slam it into a heavy walled 55 gal steel drum and then cut a free hanging 1" rope like butter. And repeat the process 8-10 times during his talk.

[Hawg]

Originally Posted by Country101

Damascus is folded sheets of thin steel hammer welded together.

Very old damascus like original Samurai swords were folded. More modern damascus uses wire strands.

[Country101]

http://www.bransonsilverdollarcity.c...tractionID=840

Here's the fella I was talkin about. I love watching his demostration.

[Bill DeShivs]

Modern damascus steel is made in many ways, not just using sheets or wire strands-welded billets, powder metal, etc.
Damascus steel has no magical qualities, other than some of it has a coarse edge because of the differing metal hardnesses.
Modern steels are more consistent.
Differential hardening is a very old process. Most modern steels don't need differential hardening.
The making of pattern welded (damascus) steel was never lost, except in America. Some WW2 German daggers were made of damascus. The pattern welding process was "rediscovered" by Bill Moran in the 1970s.

[OneFatCat]

Well guys just an update on my Bowie knife quest ...I did buy this knife and should have it sometimes this week. The knife is unsigned but this was how the seller wrote up the discription.

Offered for your consideration is spectacular and unusual hand forged custom damascus bowie knife. The knife is completely unmarked although I have an idea of who the maker may have been. This is an early damascus knife that was likely made in the late 1980's, when only a handful of custom makers were following Bill Moran's lead. The knife comes from a high-end southeast collection that was assembled from the late 1970's to the early 1990's. This collection included knives from some of the top early innovators in the custom knife world and some of these knives were among the first knives to find there way into my personal collection. The collection held many knives from some of the most talented makers in the southeast, primarily Georgia and Florida. One of these makers was Durrell Carmon Johnson, whom I strongly suspect made this knife. Johnson spent roughly four decades as a blacksmith and knifemaker. This is a large, gorgeous bowie that was beautifully crafted. It's very unique in that the blade was mirror polished. Damascus is generally acid etched to bring out the contrast of the layering or grain. The grain is clearly visible in this blade, although from a distance it looks like regular mirror polished steel. It's a very interesting effect that makes for an awesome knife. The massive blade was skillfully forged and is 1/4" thick. The blade appears to have been forged to shape and shows excellent symmetry with very little grind work. The damascus exhibits a beautiful random pattern and one side of the blade shows two small forging voids. To me this adds character and adds to my suspicion that Johnson was the maker. He once told me that he didn't even have a power hammer until like 1990. He said his damascus was forged with "my right arm and three-pound hammer". The clip was aggresively ground to facilitate sharpening of the upper edge should the owner so desire. The blade is exceptionally sharp! In fact, it's razor sharp and will shave with ease. The edge will cleanly wipe the hair from a forearm. The double guard was sculpted from solid brass and was beautifully executed as well. It shows excellent symmetry and the design is somewhat unique, with the top and bottom of the handle side angles shaved to about 45-degrees. This allows the top side of the guard to be used as a thumb rest. The blade was perfect centered with the guard and the blade/guard junctions are very clean. They were silver soldered with a skilled hand and show a seamless fit. The handle is phenomenal section of Sambar stag. It's exceptionally thick and really fills the hand. The natural shape of the stag was exploited to offer a firm, comfortable grip. There was very little shaping of the stag, with just a small area near where the index finger meets the guard that was flattened just a bit to improve comfort. The shaped surface was deeply polished and is as smooth as glass. The stag is very rich in both color and texture. It has a classic appearance and is rock-solid. The pommel is of thick brass as well and was perfectly shaped to match the contour of the stag.


Despite its impressive dimensions, the knife handles beautifully. It feels great in the hand and doesn't feel awkward or unwieldy at all. It's nicely balanced and offers nice blade control.

The blade is 11-3/4" and the knife measures just under 17" in overall length. It weighs in at just under 1-1/2 pounds.

The sheath is the original and was hand crafted as well. It was made from thick leather and was solidly built. It was tooled in a basketweave style and has an unusual belt loop that would allow for traditional (vertical) or horizontal (although I can't figure out why) carry. It's free of any cuts, tears, loose/missing stitching, or any other damage, showing just some soiling from storage. The knife also comes with a large padded zipper case for storage.

If you appreciate fine, handmade custom knives, this is a very unique, heirloom-quality knife that will be treasured through the generations.

A huge, gorgeous, and early custom damascus bowie!!

[carver]

This is what real Damascus steel looked like, Close-up of a 16th century Iranian crucible forged Damascus steel sword. I believe that we have carftsmen today that could produce a very close copy of this steel, but the labor involved would create a price that most would not pay. Folding the metal a thousand times would take months to do by hand. Todays craftsmen try for a few folds to give that damascus rippled look, and create a knife that will sell.

[Country101]

Aint that a coinkydink...... Same guy as I was talking about presumably.

Carver, the auto hammer would significantly speed up the process these days. While it would still take a long time to make one, it would be significatly less.

[Zhurh]

I'm pretty ignorant concerning knives and probably most everything now that I think about it, ha. Anyway, I use some of these knives all the time and others hardly at all. Funny thing is I use the short bowie and the double pack all the time; especially in hunting season. I'll probably get a new one from my friend every summer; but I prefer to see the knife rather than just order one. The ones I order are the ones that don't get used much for whatever reason. anyway, a couple damascus I have.

[dustydog]

Some nice pattern-welded blades here,but Carver had the only Damascus type blade photos.
True Damascus steel is more properly called Wootz steel.The process for it is incredibly simple,but monstrously labor intensive.Clean cast iron(less than 0.01 % impurity) is place in an airtight container with an equal volume of charcoal.The canister is placed in a furnace and heated over a period of between twelve hours and two days,depending on the quantity of material.Periodically it is given a side to side shake with tongs.The material is ready to cool when a very distinct "sloshing" sound is heard when moved from side to side.The seal is broken,and the raw steel is poured into a billet mold and cooled .Next step is to forge out the basic shape and tapers,which must be done at a relativly low heat(dull red verses bright red/orange).Quenching is usually done in cold water,sets the crystal structure best.The surface patterns are sometimes lightly etched to show off to good effect with a VERY mild acid solution.Yep,made this dang stuff.

[whirley]

I had the privilege some years ago to watch a Japanese swordmaster and his assistants forge a blade for a sword. He used the same methods passed down from his ancestors 600 years ago. These swords are available but at a price. They will seriously cut if you rest the weight of the blade on your finger. Not a toy but a serious tool.

[Zhurh]

So I have pattern welded blades, which is cool with me too. They look different and I use the heck outta them. Got a spyderko and use that to sharpen them. So from now on when my buddy from Ga shows up nx hunting season and he always has around 10 nice knives his brother gave him to sell; and he calls them Damascus; I'll correct him then buy the nicest one he has, ha ha.

No joke, I use the bowie all the time. Mostly chopping but to cut a tongue out of a moose or when I have a bou flopping around on the road; it's great. And I could always stick something awful deep if need ever arises.

[popgun]

Originally Posted by carver

This is what real Damascus steel looked like, Close-up of a 16th century Iranian crucible forged Damascus steel sword. I believe that we have carftsmen today that could produce a very close copy of this steel, but the labor involved would create a price that most would not pay. Folding the metal a thousand times would take months to do by hand. Todays craftsmen try for a few folds to give that damascus rippled look, and create a knife that will sell.

very cool photos where did you find those?

[Maximilian II]

Cold Steel makes a modern version of layered steel blades, I believe it to be called San Mai? Softer, flexible layers with a hard edge holding layer in the middle. All modern alloys. Pricey, too.
I love Damascus steel's looks but due to my lack of expertise I shy away as I know poor quality Damascus can leave you with a broken blade.
It is supposedly very sharpenable due to the layers forming extra microscopic serrations.

[1LoneWolf75]

My dad started makin knives in the mid 90's as a way to kill rainy days. To make a quality knife with a semi flexible blade and hold a very sharp edge took him a couple of years to figure out. then it still takes him somethin like 6 months to make a knife. Thats mainly cuz he has to walk away from it from time to time to get it "right". So that bein said then I would hate to see the time it takes to "fold" a knife.

[76Highboy]

Nice knife fat cat.

[76Highboy]

Originally Posted by Zhurh

I'm pretty ignorant concerning knives and probably most everything now that I think about it, ha. Anyway, I use some of these knives all the time and others hardly at all. Funny thing is I use the short bowie and the double pack all the time; especially in hunting season. I'll probably get a new one from my friend every summer; but I prefer to see the knife rather than just order one. The ones I order are the ones that don't get used much for whatever reason. anyway, a couple damascus I have.

Those are cool.

[cpttango30]

Not sure why people must put down current day knife makers.

Mr. Polk sure makes a good damascus blade.
http://www.knifemakersdatabase.com/c...rustypolk.html

Herb Darr makes some nice blades too.
http://www.knifemakersdatabase.com/C...nivesDerr.html