M2 carbine won't run

dartswinger · 09-29-2012, 04:20 PM

Way back in 60's an uncle had an M1 carbine converted to M2 (leagally via Class 111) I think real cheap then. He passed and my cousin found this long forgotten thing (unc was sick a looong time) got all the paperwork done but it won't work. He came to me 'cause I'm sorta the family 'gun guy', tho I don't know much on autos. On semi auto this thing works great, when you flick that switch to auto, it don't! It will fire, eject; reload and the hammer will fall but not fire. With a magnifying glass you can barely see a tiny mark in center of primer. Do these things have to be timed? We dry worked it without stock to watch parts and everything seems to work. The lever levs, discon. goes down; sear releases and hammer falls, this all "seems" to work after the bolt is closed during that final bit of travel of the slide, 'course this is dry working, no round is fed or seated. Could the recoil spring be just weak enough that the action slows enough when going 'hot' that the hammer falls before it fits in the groove to hit the firing pin? I'm stumped on auto stuff, it looks like everything does what it should but it ain't goin' bang.

Skipper · 09-29-2012, 04:37 PM

You might try here:

http://www.milsurps.com/forumdisplay.php?f=110

JLA · 09-29-2012, 04:56 PM

Yes they need to be timed. There is a couple of good milspec videos on the operation of the M2 on youtube. Its the original briefing videos presented to the military in the 1930s so they are in B&W and sound is very analog. But they are quite informative.

Jim K · 09-29-2012, 09:16 PM

Videos on the M2 from the 30's? I was under the impression that the M2 wasn't around that early.

One problem with some of those built up M2's is that the parts were not GI and often didn't work right. Not to say that is your problem, but a very common problem is a thin and/or soft disconnector lever that is bent wrong. It will work fine when worked by hand, but could trip the disconnector too early (or not at all) in FA fire. Also, some of the folks who did the conversion couldn't get M2 op slides and machined M1 slides. You can easily see the problems if that were not done correctly.

Do you know what is registered? If it is the serial number of the carbine, you can replace parts with no problem. But if a part (disconnector lever, disconnector or slide) is numbered and registered as the machinegun, you can't replace it.

Also, I don't know if there are any GI M2 parts left any more. When I built mine, I used parts I knew were GI, including an RIA disconnector lever. It ran perfectly.

Jim

glocknutt · 11-14-2012, 07:23 PM

the M1 wasnt even thought of in the 30s.

Model60 · 11-20-2012, 05:27 PM

I saw a special on the Military Channel that said the M1 was first submitted to the DOD for inspection in 1938.

Jim K · 11-20-2012, 10:17 PM

I was being sarcastic about the date. The first War Deparment circular indicating interest in a light rifle was dated 1 October 1940. Delivery date for test guns was postponed twice but nine rifles were submitted by 1 May 1941. Two were rejected for not meeting the specifications, the other seven were tested through May and into June, but no selection was made. Winchester did not submit a rifle, even though they had been involved in development of the cartridge, based on their .32 Wincheser Self Loading. They had, however, been working on a prototype built around the short stroke piston invented by David Marshall "Marsh" Williams. Submitted on 9 Aug 1941, and modified several times, it was ultimately selected as the Carbine, Caliber .30, M1.

So, more or less as usual, the Military Channel got it wrong. (They once showed German tanks driving through the snow to invade France - in the hottest May in decades!)

Jim

Model60 · 11-21-2012, 02:15 AM

They often re-use the same film clips, one show about the P40Warhawk showed a pic of an early P51 Mustang. Guess they think nobody will know the difference.
The show I watched said 1938 for the Garrand and late 1942 for the Carbine. Some old vets told me that the Carbines didn't show up till late 1943.
All I know is that with the military's reputation of supplying decent firearms in times of battle, GI's were lucky to get the M1 in time for WW2.

medalguy · 11-21-2012, 06:26 PM

Something important to know: Did the carbine ever work before? That will tell you a lot. Might also check the springs in it, disconnector spring might be bent or weak. Very likely the problem is with a single part being out of spec, but we need to know if it fired auto back in the 60's. Any idea?

What kind of ammo are you using-- GI, commercial factory, reloads, overseas made steel cased stuff?

dartswinger · 01-18-2013, 04:03 PM

Sorry guys I didn't reply anymore, the problem was solved and I didn't think of following up. We had been taking it apart and reassembling it with the selector switch in the foreward position (A) and just for the heck of it I put it back in the stock with the selector in the rearward position, holding that thing in place with my thumb 'til the last fraction of an inch, and that little girl runs like a happy jackrabbit! That's real tricky, ain't it? Just nothing to hold that stuff in place while putting it together. That little spring and plunger on the disconnector is a whole 'nother headache!!

09-29-2012, 04:20 PM	#1
dartswinger V.I.P. Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: SE Pa. Posts: 147	M2 carbine won't run Way back in 60's an uncle had an M1 carbine converted to M2 (leagally via Class 111) I think real cheap then. He passed and my cousin found this long forgotten thing (unc was sick a looong time) got all the paperwork done but it won't work. He came to me 'cause I'm sorta the family 'gun guy', tho I don't know much on autos. On semi auto this thing works great, when you flick that switch to auto, it don't! It will fire, eject; reload and the hammer will fall but not fire. With a magnifying glass you can barely see a tiny mark in center of primer. Do these things have to be timed? We dry worked it without stock to watch parts and everything seems to work. The lever levs, discon. goes down; sear releases and hammer falls, this all "seems" to work after the bolt is closed during that final bit of travel of the slide, 'course this is dry working, no round is fed or seated. Could the recoil spring be just weak enough that the action slows enough when going 'hot' that the hammer falls before it fits in the groove to hit the firing pin? I'm stumped on auto stuff, it looks like everything does what it should but it ain't goin' bang. -->

09-29-2012, 04:37 PM	#2
Skipper V.I.P. Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: People's Republic of Kalifornia Posts: 335	Re: M2 carbine won't run You might try here: http://www.milsurps.com/forumdisplay.php?f=110

09-29-2012, 04:56 PM	#3
JLA TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Heart Of Texas Contributor Posts: 17,296	Re: M2 carbine won't run Yes they need to be timed. There is a couple of good milspec videos on the operation of the M2 on youtube. Its the original briefing videos presented to the military in the 1930s so they are in B&W and sound is very analog. But they are quite informative. __________________ It takes 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 3 for proper trigger squeeze. The latest caliber or gear is no substitute for experience and skill. Rifles and cartridges don't make hits -- shooters do. Fact of life: After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says WTF!

09-29-2012, 09:16 PM	#4
Jim K Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 6,408	Re: M2 carbine won't run Videos on the M2 from the 30's? I was under the impression that the M2 wasn't around that early. One problem with some of those built up M2's is that the parts were not GI and often didn't work right. Not to say that is your problem, but a very common problem is a thin and/or soft disconnector lever that is bent wrong. It will work fine when worked by hand, but could trip the disconnector too early (or not at all) in FA fire. Also, some of the folks who did the conversion couldn't get M2 op slides and machined M1 slides. You can easily see the problems if that were not done correctly. Do you know what is registered? If it is the serial number of the carbine, you can replace parts with no problem. But if a part (disconnector lever, disconnector or slide) is numbered and registered as the machinegun, you can't replace it. Also, I don't know if there are any GI M2 parts left any more. When I built mine, I used parts I knew were GI, including an RIA disconnector lever. It ran perfectly. Jim

11-14-2012, 07:23 PM	#5
glocknutt Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 1	Re: M2 carbine won't run the M1 wasnt even thought of in the 30s.

11-20-2012, 05:27 PM	#6
Model60 Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 22	Re: M2 carbine won't run I saw a special on the Military Channel that said the M1 was first submitted to the DOD for inspection in 1938.

11-20-2012, 10:17 PM	#7
Jim K Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 6,408	Re: M2 carbine won't run I was being sarcastic about the date. The first War Deparment circular indicating interest in a light rifle was dated 1 October 1940. Delivery date for test guns was postponed twice but nine rifles were submitted by 1 May 1941. Two were rejected for not meeting the specifications, the other seven were tested through May and into June, but no selection was made. Winchester did not submit a rifle, even though they had been involved in development of the cartridge, based on their .32 Wincheser Self Loading. They had, however, been working on a prototype built around the short stroke piston invented by David Marshall "Marsh" Williams. Submitted on 9 Aug 1941, and modified several times, it was ultimately selected as the Carbine, Caliber .30, M1. So, more or less as usual, the Military Channel got it wrong. (They once showed German tanks driving through the snow to invade France - in the hottest May in decades!) Jim

11-21-2012, 02:15 AM	#8
Model60 Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 22	Re: M2 carbine won't run They often re-use the same film clips, one show about the P40Warhawk showed a pic of an early P51 Mustang. Guess they think nobody will know the difference. The show I watched said 1938 for the Garrand and late 1942 for the Carbine. Some old vets told me that the Carbines didn't show up till late 1943. All I know is that with the military's reputation of supplying decent firearms in times of battle, GI's were lucky to get the M1 in time for WW2.

11-21-2012, 06:26 PM	#9
medalguy Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 585	Re: M2 carbine won't run Something important to know: Did the carbine ever work before? That will tell you a lot. Might also check the springs in it, disconnector spring might be bent or weak. Very likely the problem is with a single part being out of spec, but we need to know if it fired auto back in the 60's. Any idea? What kind of ammo are you using-- GI, commercial factory, reloads, overseas made steel cased stuff?

01-18-2013, 04:03 PM	#10
dartswinger V.I.P. Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: SE Pa. Posts: 147	Re: M2 carbine won't run Sorry guys I didn't reply anymore, the problem was solved and I didn't think of following up. We had been taking it apart and reassembling it with the selector switch in the foreward position (A) and just for the heck of it I put it back in the stock with the selector in the rearward position, holding that thing in place with my thumb 'til the last fraction of an inch, and that little girl runs like a happy jackrabbit! That's real tricky, ain't it? Just nothing to hold that stuff in place while putting it together. That little spring and plunger on the disconnector is a whole 'nother headache!!