Oven broke need help?

[ryan42]

I walked by my oven and noticed it was puting out heat.I looked at the dial and the oven was turned off but when I opened the oven door the heating element was glowing red.Any one wanta take a stab at it.I turned the breaker off.

[Maine04657]

Your control is bad the part behind that knob.

[Appliancedude]

More than likely your "dial" is bad. But...........

However more info is needed though. Does your oven just have a single knob, or 2? In other words, is there a thermostat and a oven select, or just a thermostat. If there is 2 knobs (ie switchs) then either one could be bad. Your element requires 220 volts to run. Some models supply 110 to the element at all times, and the oven set switch then supplys the other 110 to either the bake or the broil depending on which you select, and the t-stat doesn't have a off position. Others use the same setup but the t-stat has a off position and supplys the other 110volts rather than leaving power potential to the element.
If it just has one knob then it could still be set up either 110 all the time and the t-stat supplys the other half, or the t-stat could supply the entire 220v.

It could also just be a broken wire or a shorted element.

Do you have a multi meter? and more important, do you know how to use it?
Is your oven, a wall oven or a range? A range being a oven and cooktop unit. A oven is a oven, a cooktop is a cooktop, but a cooktop and a oven is a range Just want to know what it is we are working on.

I can tell you how to diagnose but I need to know where to start ya. let me know what brand, and model number and I'll help you out.

[Zhurh]

WE have an elec range but also have a wood cookstove that we use all winter long. If ya ever see one that ain't burnt out, pick it up; food tastes better cooked on a woodstove.

[68c15]

leave it on and tell the wife to get baking. she can stop when the oven quits. if she needs a break she can take one every half hour to bring you a beer then it's back to the kitchen

[carver]

Originally Posted by ryan42

I walked by my oven and noticed it was puting out heat.I looked at the dial and the oven was turned off but when I opened the oven door the heating element was glowing red.Any one wanta take a stab at it.I turned the breaker off.

Look up the make, and model on line. You can down load a repair manual for it.

[Appliancedude]

Originally Posted by carver

Look up the make, and model on line. You can down load a repair manual for it.

Not always. Believe me I've looked

[ryan42]

Its a hotpoint and it only has one control for the oven.I just discovered that the bottom element in the oven is broken into.I removed the element and I will get another one tommorrow.Thanks guys.

[Appliancedude]

Originally Posted by ryan42

Its a hotpoint and it only has one control for the oven.I just discovered that the bottom element in the oven is broken into.I removed the element and I will get another one tommorrow.Thanks guys.

Its nice when you don't have to break out a meter to diagnose Good find, easy fix, love those

[ryan42]

Oh it is a range appliancedude

[Appliancedude]

Originally Posted by ryan42

Oh it is a range appliancedude

lol, well now that we understand one another

[mjp28]

I've read this thread several times and am confused on a few points.

[Also you don't just mess around with gas furnaces, electric ranges, etc. they can have dangerous consequences.]

You have a broken element BUT the original problem was a glowing element and heat coming out with the control knob set at OFF? Hmmmm.

Might need to know more there Ryan. I'm sure we can iron this out and yes I also agree Model, S/N, all that is very helpful plus how old is this unit?

[Bindernut]

Sounds like Appliancedude has ya on the right track Ryan.
The broken element was probably caused by being on too long. Most likely,as mjp28 surmised, the thermostat part of the oven control is stuck on and the element is energized constantly instead of intermittently cycling to maintain a set temp.

I didn't do much large appliance work when I was running my electronics shop...mostly just for family and neighbors...so I don't have much on hand for manuals. But if you want to, PM me or post up the make/model/serial and I'll dig in my library too.

[mjp28]

Originally Posted by Bindernut

Sounds like Appliancedude has ya on the right track Ryan.
The broken element was probably caused by being on too long. Most likely,as mjp28 surmised, the thermostat part of the oven control is stuck on and the element is energized constantly instead of intermittently cycling to maintain a set temp.

I didn't do much large appliance work when I was running my electronics shop...mostly just for family and neighbors...so I don't have much on hand for manuals. But if you want to, PM me or post up the make/model/serial and I'll dig in my library too.

Yes, and if Ryan replaces the element, control still on OFF position and it comes on again looks like the control may be faulty.

Let us know what happens.
edit add - and how old is it? Some old electric ranges can go bad all over, wiring, etc, that's why I prefer gas.

[Appliancedude]

Originally Posted by mjp28

Yes, and if Ryan replaces the element, control still on OFF position and it comes on again looks like the control may be faulty.

Let us know what happens.
edit add - and how old is it? Some old electric ranges can go bad all over, wiring, etc, that's why I prefer gas.

OK let me see if I can make the muddy water clearer. More than likely its just the element. It definitely could have deeper issues.

On some ranges and GE being the biggest (hotpoint is one of GE's lines) to do it, they run 110v to the element from the terminal block. So the element has 110v to it at all times. The thermostat when turned on then supplys the needed other 110v to energize the element. Now if the element pops and the inside shorts to ground it will use the cavity as a neutral and energize with just 110. It will glow. Not as bright as with 220v but it will turn orange. All elements will pop at some point. Don't care what brand, don't care the age. All elements will pop at some point. I carry about 5 bake elements, 2 broil elements and a variety of cooktop elements because of this fact. More than likely it was just a burnt out element. It could have just as easily been a small pop and no heat, as an extreme pop that shorts to chassis.

Regardless he has to change the element first. If it works great, if it glows with the t-stat off, then at that point the t-stat is bad. From my experience, I doubt it will go that far.

Ryan, if your worried about it, very carefully measure across your two wires to the element. Each one to chassis, and to each other. If you have 220 to each other, your t-stat is bad, if you have 110 to chassis on one wire and nothing on the other, your fine.

[Appliancedude]

Originally Posted by mjp28

I've read this thread several times and am confused on a few points.

[Also you don't just mess around with gas furnaces, electric ranges, etc. they can have dangerous consequences.]

You have a broken element BUT the original problem was a glowing element and heat coming out with the control knob set at OFF? Hmmmm.

Might need to know more there Ryan. I'm sure we can iron this out and yes I also agree Model, S/N, all that is very helpful plus how old is this unit?

there is nothing dangerous about a elec range. Well as long as the power is off. Don't ask me how I know Ok you twisted my arm, I'll tell ya.

My first experience was back when I was still delivering appliances. When I was done for the day, I would head back to the shop and teach myself how to work on used appliances. I had this range that had a bad t-stat. Was cooking about 100 deg to hot. So I was pulling the pigtail off the range and forgot to unplug it. The stupid part and I'm still not sure why I did it, I reached down with both hands to take off the cord. So I had 220 v run across my chest. Thank GOD it threw me back install of holding on. I was thrown back about 4 feet into our workbench. I was literally stupefied for about 2 hours. I couldn't think straight. It was a chore to remember how to walk.

My next experience came at a blown element. It was a GE wall oven. Element blown. No problem, lets just take that out and go match it to something in my truck. This was probably 14 years ago. It was one of these ovens that supplys 110 all the time. I hadn't learned that yet as soon as I pulled the element free, it touch the chassis and arced, shoot voltage right up my arm. My arm hurt for about 6 hours.

So learn from my expereinces. SHUT OFF THE DAMNED BREAKER

[mjp28]

Originally Posted by Appliancedude

....So the element has 110v to it at all times. The thermostat when turned on then supplys the needed other 110v to energize the element. Now if the element pops and the inside shorts to ground it will use the cavity as a neutral and energize with just 110. It will glow. Not as bright as with 220v but it will turn orange. All elements will pop at some point. Don't care what brand, don't care the age. All elements will pop at some point....

......Regardless he has to change the element first. If it works great, if it glows with the t-stat off, then at that point the t-stat is bad. From my experience, I doubt it will go that far.

Ryan, if your worried about it, very carefully measure across your two wires to the element. Each one to chassis, and to each other. If you have 220 to each other, your t-stat is bad, if you have 110 to chassis on one wire and nothing on the other, your fine.

Right, got you there, if the element pops and finds it's own complete circuit the remaining piece can possibly glow with less heat than a working oven.

One thing too, if a control switch itself goes bad they might give off a smell or other indication they're bad.

[mjp28]

Originally Posted by Appliancedude

there is nothing dangerous about a elec range. Well as long as the power is off.....

....So learn from my expereinces. SHUT OFF THE DAMNED BREAKER

Oh yeah that's why I tell non-pros to be real careful when fooling around with 110 and especially 220+.

Even if you throw a breaker, check it with a voltage tester to make sure it's dead!. Make sure you're not half right. Getting bit by 110 isn't fun, 220 can really be deadly.

On fuses I take them out and inspect them, especially the filler types. I've seen some really strange things down the mill, especially in the higher voltages and higher currents.

[Appliancedude]

Originally Posted by mjp28

Right, got you there, if the element pops and finds it's own complete circuit the remaining piece can possibly glow with less heat than a working oven.

One thing too, if a control switch itself goes bad they might give off a smell or other indication they're bad.

Yep, you will also on occasion find black soot like stuff under them

Originally Posted by mjp28

Oh yeah that's why I tell non-pros to be real careful when fooling around with 110 and especially 220+.

Even if you throw a breaker, check it with a voltage tester to make sure it's dead!. Make sure you're not half right. Getting bit by 110 isn't fun, 220 can really be deadly.

On fuses I take them out and inspect them, especially the filler types. I've seen some really strange things down the mill, especially in the higher voltages and higher currents.

The funny thing is I don't remember any pain from the shock. My back hurt like hell from being thrown into the workbench. I remember being stupid for a couple hours, but no pain from the shock. Weird huh.

[mjp28]

Originally Posted by Appliancedude

The funny thing is I don't remember any pain from the shock. My back hurt like hell from being thrown into the workbench. I remember being stupid for a couple hours, but no pain from the shock. Weird huh.

The only good part is you're talking about it now.

I knew ONE guy, the only one I've ever heard of that tangled with 6600v and lived, blew his arm off, went all around his body, they thought he was dead!

Great guy, retired with 45 years at USSteel.

.....not to scare Ryan, just be careful pal.

[Bindernut]

Originally Posted by Appliancedude

The funny thing is I don't remember any pain from the shock. My back hurt like hell from being thrown into the workbench. I remember being stupid for a couple hours, but no pain from the shock. Weird huh.

Most of the time you won't have much pain from an electrical shock. You might strain the muscles from the spasms or what you get thrown against, but usually the nerves get fried from the electricity and they'll actually go numb.

I've been across 110vac more times than I care to count. Usually when I choke up to tight on the wire stripper or screwdriver and slip off of the insulation. DOH!
I've only been hit by 277vac (one leg of 480v 3-phase to earth ground) once though...that's enough for me. Couldn't feel anything but a buzz in that fingertip for two days and I'm sure I cooked some of the nerves permanently.
Back when I was fixing TVs daily, I tangled with single shots of 25kv plus from charged up CRTs a few times when discharging the tubes. Not fun either!


One of my instructors in college warned us that "60Hz really hurts!" I still re-learn that lesson the hard way some days though.


The moral of the story is...make sure you unplug what you're working on and even then, double-check that you've got no juice on a wire before you touch it with your bare hands!!!

[Appliancedude]

I've been hit by 220 twice. Cause I'm a slow learner and didn't learn from the first fight. 110 gets me a lot, cause i have to have the machine working to diagnose it most of the time. 110 hurts. Not so much anymore but still hurts.

Carefull if you ever work on a microwave. AND JUST FYI. I will not give any advise on them. High voltage capacitors can store upwards of 4000v. Even with the micro unplugged, if that cap is charged and you touch it, well I'll send flowers to your funeral.

[mjp28]

The scary thing, it's not the voltage that kills you it's the current and if it goes through your heart.

As little as 65 ma can stop your heart.

Normally if you get bit it runs down your hand to foot or whatever.

OLD TIP only wire hot with one hand! If you grab with both hands it might go through your chest....might be game over!

And with that good night.

[Bindernut]

Originally Posted by Appliancedude

Carefull if you ever work on a microwave. AND JUST FYI. I will not give any advise on them. High voltage capacitors can store upwards of 4000v. Even with the micro unplugged, if that cap is charged and you touch it, well I'll send flowers to your funeral.

Yup, I won't advise anyone to repair a microwave anymore...they're disposable, just buy a new one.

It's not the caps that scare me though, I have a healthy respect for stored energy.
What gets me real twitchy are those darned magnetrons throwing high-freq RF around.
I know a local navy vet that was inside the radome of a surface radar system (a really BIG magnetron) when it was energized. He's got permanent brain and nerve damage.
You've all seen the movie Gremlins or heard the tales of the kids putting kitty in the micro to dry it off right?

[Appliancedude]

Originally Posted by Bindernut

Yup, I won't advise anyone to repair a microwave anymore...they're disposable, just buy a new one.

It's not the caps that scare me though, I have a healthy respect for stored energy.
What gets me real twitchy are those darned magnetrons throwing high-freq RF around.
I know a local navy vet that was inside the radome of a surface radar system (a really BIG magnetron) when it was energized. He's got permanent brain and nerve damage.
You've all seen the movie Gremlins or heard the tales of the kids putting kitty in the micro to dry it off right?

On a household micro, the mag is nothing to be twitchy about. the energy is focused into a contained cavity. The only concern is leakage. And thats only when its energized.

Another funny story. Well its funny now

I was in the shop and working on a microwave. Had the cover off, it was on a cart that put it a little above waist high. I had it running and was doing some tests. I started feeling real sick. So I walked outside to get some air. Felt better and went back to the microwave. Started it up and went back to testing. Started to get real sick again. What the? Went and grabbed my leak tester. The damned mag was leaking. Not from around the door seal, but from around the backside of the damned thing. I was sitting there microwaving my insides.

Ok so maybe its not such a funny story. I have a very healthy respect for microwaves. Which is why I won't advise anyone on how to fix them. Ask me all you guys want on anything else.