I would like to identify this bolt action rifle. - The Firearms Forum

blacksheepone · 10-03-2012, 02:45 AM

Hello there,

I've inherited this rifle from a family member.
I've been searching trough the internet with the markings on the gun to establish the manufacturer of this rifle but so far no luck.
It's a calibre 45-70 bolt action rifle.

I'll post pictures of the rifle. Unfortunately I can't get a clear picture of the markings on the rifle yet but there's PT in it and some kind of arrows and something that looks like two two y's : yy PT and arrows ....
Once I get a clean and clear picture of the markings I'll post them here

Many thanks for the help !!!

GunHugger · 10-03-2012, 06:23 AM

I'm not sure what it is.

But, if you would post a few pictures of the things that can be used to identify a gun we might have a better chance.

There looks like a logo on the butt plate but I can't make out what it is.

Also, is there anything stamped on the barrel, brand, model, caliber...anything?

blacksheepone · 10-03-2012, 08:06 AM

Hey there ! Thanks for the reply...
Well the things on the butt plate doesn't seem to be a logo but nevertheless I'll post a pic of it ... The calibre stamp says 70. I'll do my best to get a usefull picture of the stamps on the barrel...
It's gonna come up in my next post...

Hope that I'll get my answers then...

PS like your Reagan quote : In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem. ~ Ronald Reagan
This is true around the world... even so in Europe... Really good quote !!!

jack404 · 10-03-2012, 08:27 AM

Welcome ! has it a internal mag or is it a single ?

blacksheepone · 10-03-2012, 08:28 AM

Okay I got a closer look to the rifle and here's what I've found. markings are following 76 and 10.5 also has said in first post I see something looking like two y's and PT then two arrows forms pointing towards each other.... Still can't get a good picture of those markings though so I'm gonna make a drawing and post a picture of it....

blacksheepone · 10-03-2012, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jack404

Welcome ! has it a internal mag or is it a single ?

Hi there, it's a single...

blacksheepone · 10-03-2012, 08:47 AM

OK so the markings has posted previously are 76 and 10.5 also here's a drawing of the other marking of which I couldn't make a usefull photograph... (bear with me I'm not a great artist :-p )

GunHugger · 10-03-2012, 09:09 AM

I believe it's European, maybe French since I found an old french proof mark like the crossed lightning bolt arrow thing.

The P.T. means Proof Tested for smokeless powder.

I'm still digging for the other two.

blacksheepone · 10-03-2012, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GunHugger

I believe it's European.

The P.T. means Proof Tested for smokeless powder.

I'm still digging for the other two.

Great !!! We're getting there !!! Thanks for helping me on this one !
I'm rather new in all this. I've always been interested in firearms but never had one of my own. I'm considering getting my hunting permit after passing the required exams so I can legally keep and use this rifle. (For the time being it's stored with a friend who has all the right papers to legally keep this kind of weapons). What I hope to know is if it's a descent rifle and know the manufacturer and type so I can get to learn all specs I need to know. Unfortunately the friend who is safegarding it for me is only into specific brands of hunting rifles so he can't help me with the identification...
That's how I got to this forum... Seems I've been knocking on the right door

GunHugger · 10-03-2012, 09:48 AM

You might be knocking on the right door...but I'm just about to give up and say I don't know what it is.

More pictures of the receiver from above or a good side shot might help. I looked for the past hour and still don't know exactly what your rifle is.

I'll look some more later, have to leave for a while.

hrf · 10-03-2012, 09:57 AM

The barrel at least is definitely French; how did you determine it is .45-70 caliber??

deadin · 10-03-2012, 10:08 AM

Is it rifled or smoothbore?
I'm thinking a shotgun as that bolt doesn't look like it would contain very many rounds of a rifle cartridge. (45/70 wil usually drop into a .410 chamber.)

Goody · 10-03-2012, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deadin

Is it rifled or smoothbore?
I'm thinking a shotgun as that bolt doesn't look like it would contain very many rounds of a rifle cartridge. (45/70 wil usually drop into a .410 chamber.)

That was my first impression as well. the 70 marking could be for 70mm, 2 3/4 inch shell.

hrf · 10-03-2012, 10:44 AM

It might be a shotgun as I don't see any front sight, but don't know if that's a sight base or what at the breech.

(A .45 Colt round will chamber in a 410, but a 45-70 round should not as it has a larger base diameter)

carver · 10-03-2012, 11:14 AM

I coppied the picture the OP posted, and enlarged it 200%. There is a bead on the end of the barrel, it's a shot gun!

blacksheepone · 10-03-2012, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deadin

Is it rifled or smoothbore?
I'm thinking a shotgun as that bolt doesn't look like it would contain very many rounds of a rifle cartridge. (45/70 wil usually drop into a .410 chamber.)

It's actually smoothbore. I've just asked my friend to check...
What kind of ammo has to be used in this shotgun then ?

Bindernut · 10-03-2012, 11:48 AM

10.5mm is the metric designation for the .410 cartridge.
76mm is a common marking for a 3" chamber. 70mm is a common marking for a 2.75" chamber. Whatever the marking is, that's the chamber length.
If it's a 76mm chamber, then you can fire 3" .410 shotshells in it (or any shorter length .410 as well).

I have no clue as to the maker though. Nothing that I've ever seen before and I don't recognize and of the posted proofmarks.
It looks to be pretty modern with the machine pressed stippling on the grip and fore-end.

No importer or brand name markings on it anywhere?

blacksheepone · 10-03-2012, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hrf

It might be a shotgun as I don't see any front sight, but don't know if that's a sight base or what at the breech.

(A .45 Colt round will chamber in a 410, but a 45-70 round should not as it has a larger base diameter)

I thought it was a 45-70 because I had an empty round (coming from the same relative from whom i got the gun) and it fitted perfectly into the chamber....
But has it is smoothbore and not rifled it must be a 410 I guess with the info I read here...

blacksheepone · 10-03-2012, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bindernut

10.5mm is the metric designation for the .410 cartridge.
76mm is a common marking for a 3" chamber. 70mm is a common marking for a 2.75" chamber. Whatever the marking is, that's the chamber length.
If it's a 76mm chamber, then you can fire 3" .410 shotshells in it (or any shorter length .410 as well).

I have no clue as to the maker though. Nothing that I've ever seen before and I don't recognize and of the posted proofmarks.
It looks to be pretty modern with the machine pressed stippling on the grip and fore-end.

No importer or brand name markings on it anywhere?

Well the markings I've drawn are the only ones I can find on the gun...

blacksheepone · 10-03-2012, 11:56 AM

I just want to thank all of you guys for all the trouble you're getting trough to help me find out what it is ....

hrf · 10-03-2012, 12:07 PM

French proofmarks (scroll down to lines 40-41):

http://www.shotguns.se/html/france.html

blacksheepone · 10-03-2012, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hrf

French proofmarks (scroll down to lines 40-41):

http://www.shotguns.se/html/france.html

Definitely Franch made shotgun !!!

Thanks for the link !!

targetacqmgt · 10-03-2012, 12:28 PM

umm could the cross lighting marking be a military designation for a communications or signal unit????

blacksheepone · 10-03-2012, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by targetacqmgt

umm could the cross lighting marking be a military designation for a communications or signal unit????

Hi there,

No it isn't, I got a link from another member and it's a french made shotgun.
I just don't know the manufacturer but it's french and the crossed lightnings are for "guns in finalized state when proofed" has you can find in the link...

All the markings are now clear to me only the brand of the gun is still unknown...

Thanks for trying though

blacksheepone · 10-03-2012, 03:29 PM

OK thanks to all your combined efforts I've found out that it's a 410 (12mm) shotgun French made and for has far as I can find with all the info the manufacturer is "Manu Arm"....

I'm really happy that I came here and ask my question because now at least i know what this weapon is...

Thanks guys !!!

10-03-2012, 02:45 AM	#1
blacksheepone Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 14	I would like to identify this bolt action rifle. Hello there, I've inherited this rifle from a family member. I've been searching trough the internet with the markings on the gun to establish the manufacturer of this rifle but so far no luck. It's a calibre 45-70 bolt action rifle. I'll post pictures of the rifle. Unfortunately I can't get a clear picture of the markings on the rifle yet but there's PT in it and some kind of arrows and something that looks like two two y's : yy PT and arrows .... Once I get a clean and clear picture of the markings I'll post them here Many thanks for the help !!! -->

10-03-2012, 06:23 AM	#2
GunHugger Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: SW PA Posts: 1,162	Re: I would like to identify this bolt action rifle. I'm not sure what it is. But, if you would post a few pictures of the things that can be used to identify a gun we might have a better chance. There looks like a logo on the butt plate but I can't make out what it is. Also, is there anything stamped on the barrel, brand, model, caliber...anything? __________________ . “There will be a revolution in this country!” “I don’t believe people should to be able to own guns.” ~Barack Obama "Stand your ground. Don't fire unless fired upon, but if they mean to have a war let it begin here." ~Captain John Parker, to his Minute Men on Lexington Green, April 19, 1775.

10-03-2012, 08:06 AM	#3
blacksheepone Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 14	Re: I would like to identify this bolt action rifle. Hey there ! Thanks for the reply... Well the things on the butt plate doesn't seem to be a logo but nevertheless I'll post a pic of it ... The calibre stamp says 70. I'll do my best to get a usefull picture of the stamps on the barrel... It's gonna come up in my next post... Hope that I'll get my answers then... PS like your Reagan quote : In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem. ~ Ronald Reagan This is true around the world... even so in Europe... Really good quote !!! Last edited by blacksheepone; 10-03-2012 at 08:09 AM.. Reason: Adding small remark

10-03-2012, 08:27 AM	#4
jack404 Former Guest Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Australia Contributor Posts: 17,622	Re: I would like to identify this bolt action rifle. Welcome ! has it a internal mag or is it a single ?

10-03-2012, 08:28 AM	#5
blacksheepone Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 14	Re: I would like to identify this bolt action rifle. Okay I got a closer look to the rifle and here's what I've found. markings are following 76 and 10.5 also has said in first post I see something looking like two y's and PT then two arrows forms pointing towards each other.... Still can't get a good picture of those markings though so I'm gonna make a drawing and post a picture of it....

10-03-2012, 08:47 AM	#7
blacksheepone Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 14	Re: I would like to identify this bolt action rifle. OK so the markings has posted previously are 76 and 10.5 also here's a drawing of the other marking of which I couldn't make a usefull photograph... (bear with me I'm not a great artist :-p )

10-03-2012, 09:09 AM	#8
GunHugger Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: SW PA Posts: 1,162	Re: I would like to identify this bolt action rifle. I believe it's European, maybe French since I found an old french proof mark like the crossed lightning bolt arrow thing. The P.T. means Proof Tested for smokeless powder. I'm still digging for the other two. __________________ . “There will be a revolution in this country!” “I don’t believe people should to be able to own guns.” ~Barack Obama "Stand your ground. Don't fire unless fired upon, but if they mean to have a war let it begin here." ~Captain John Parker, to his Minute Men on Lexington Green, April 19, 1775. Last edited by GunHugger; 10-03-2012 at 09:15 AM..

10-03-2012, 09:48 AM	#10
GunHugger Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: SW PA Posts: 1,162	Re: I would like to identify this bolt action rifle. You might be knocking on the right door...but I'm just about to give up and say I don't know what it is. More pictures of the receiver from above or a good side shot might help. I looked for the past hour and still don't know exactly what your rifle is. I'll look some more later, have to leave for a while. __________________ . “There will be a revolution in this country!” “I don’t believe people should to be able to own guns.” ~Barack Obama "Stand your ground. Don't fire unless fired upon, but if they mean to have a war let it begin here." ~Captain John Parker, to his Minute Men on Lexington Green, April 19, 1775.

10-03-2012, 09:57 AM	#11
hrf Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 2,308	Re: I would like to identify this bolt action rifle. The barrel at least is definitely French; how did you determine it is .45-70 caliber??

10-03-2012, 10:08 AM	#12
deadin Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 867	Re: I would like to identify this bolt action rifle. Is it rifled or smoothbore? I'm thinking a shotgun as that bolt doesn't look like it would contain very many rounds of a rifle cartridge. (45/70 wil usually drop into a .410 chamber.)

10-03-2012, 10:44 AM	#14
hrf Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 2,308	Re: I would like to identify this bolt action rifle. It might be a shotgun as I don't see any front sight, but don't know if that's a sight base or what at the breech. (A .45 Colt round will chamber in a 410, but a 45-70 round should not as it has a larger base diameter)

10-03-2012, 11:14 AM	#15
carver TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: DAV, Deep in the Pineywoods of East Texas, just west of Shreveport, LA Contributor Posts: 11,542	Re: I would like to identify this bolt action rifle. I coppied the picture the OP posted, and enlarged it 200%. There is a bead on the end of the barrel, it's a shot gun! __________________ Y'all be safe now, ya hear! Lamentations Chapter 5: 1. Remember, O LORD, what is come upon us: consider, and behold our reproach. 2. Our inheritance is turned to strangers, our houses to aliens. 3. We are orphans and fatherless, our mothers [are] as widows. 5. Our necks [are] under persecution: we labour, [and] have no rest. 16. The crown is fallen [from] our head: woe unto us, that we have sinned! 21. Turn thou us unto thee, O LORD, and we shall be turned; renew our days as of old.

10-03-2012, 11:48 AM	#17
Bindernut Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: ND, USA Posts: 2,489	Re: I would like to identify this bolt action rifle. 10.5mm is the metric designation for the .410 cartridge. 76mm is a common marking for a 3" chamber. 70mm is a common marking for a 2.75" chamber. Whatever the marking is, that's the chamber length. If it's a 76mm chamber, then you can fire 3" .410 shotshells in it (or any shorter length .410 as well). I have no clue as to the maker though. Nothing that I've ever seen before and I don't recognize and of the posted proofmarks. It looks to be pretty modern with the machine pressed stippling on the grip and fore-end. No importer or brand name markings on it anywhere?

10-03-2012, 11:56 AM	#20
blacksheepone Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 14	Re: I would like to identify this bolt action rifle. I just want to thank all of you guys for all the trouble you're getting trough to help me find out what it is ....

10-03-2012, 12:07 PM	#21
hrf Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 2,308	Re: I would like to identify this bolt action rifle. French proofmarks (scroll down to lines 40-41): http://www.shotguns.se/html/france.html

10-03-2012, 12:28 PM	#23
targetacqmgt Registered User Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 494	Re: I would like to identify this bolt action rifle. umm could the cross lighting marking be a military designation for a communications or signal unit????

10-03-2012, 03:29 PM	#25
blacksheepone Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 14	Re: I would like to identify this bolt action rifle. OK thanks to all your combined efforts I've found out that it's a 410 (12mm) shotgun French made and for has far as I can find with all the info the manufacturer is "Manu Arm".... I'm really happy that I came here and ask my question because now at least i know what this weapon is... Thanks guys !!!