When "IT" happens (what ever IT may be)

[ShawnDow]

With the uncertainty of whats happening (all over the World) and how it will interact with out lives when "IT" dose...
I hear people saying its going to be the Governments taking over (or collapse), the "big powers" (businesses and people of wealth) taking over, Financial collapse, what ever "IT" may be...
I see and hear of people trying to prep for "IT".

Now I'm a simple Michigander.. I know about hunting some trapping, fishing, heck I can even grow fruits and vegetables! I have the ability to hunt for food for years with the supplies I have (or defend the homestead for about .. well until some one can "places a shot on me"). I can fish, get fresh water... Lake Huron is just .9 miles away.

Thats all fine and dandy... My question comes down to this... if "Civilization" goes bully up (and we live through the "initial event" to where we can fend for ourselves), What resources will still be in effect? If people are at home protecting their interest.. they wont be at work... no one to run the power plant, water works, natural gas companies....Are we going back to the 1850's?

Whats your take on "IT"?

Just thinking out loud.

[Alpo]

I think if IT happens, all y'all up North gonna freeze to death, except for the ones that realize that and immediately head South, where we will have to shoot you to keep you from taking our stuff.

It prob'ly won't be purty.

[ShawnDow]

From Michigan to Florida... Id have a few states to try to get through before we met.. If I made it that far... I'd stay in Michigan... The Huron National Forrest...1000 square miles of forrest... lots of wood to burn, to keep warm, lots of fur bearing critters to harvest for hides and eat as well! Mmmmm furry critters! Lake Huron, lots of fishing... I'm good up here! You wont have to worry about me!

[gvw3]

We won't freeze in the north. We don't need to go south to stay warm. Folks lived up here long before we had nat gas and electricity.

[firefighter1635]

Originally Posted by gvw3

We won't freeze in the north. We don't need to go south to stay warm. Folks lived up here long before we had nat gas and electricity.

^ This. If "IT" happens as you described ShawnDow. Yes, it'll be the 1850's all over. I could live like that, and i'm sure many here could if forced to but I know alot of people that just couldn't. I'd be messy in the worst way.

[ShawnDow]

Ive always wanted to live back in those times...
Looks like Ill have to find a pot belly stove... I dont think a fire ring in the living room would work too well!

[jack404]

i'm counting on nothing but myself and whaty i've stashed away over the years , if somethings are still working , bonus, but i'm set for a zero input from society and such

[ShawnDow]

Jack.. I love your little add about the beer holder... problem though with the picture.. I spent 3 months in Geelong, Victoria a few summers ago... that is a picture of a left hand drive car, I remember right hand drive cars!

Speaking of Australia... you guys love your beer, I didn't mind it either! Have you made accommodations to keep it cold? Might want to stock up on Co2 tanks and a device to make dry ice!

[jack404]

Shawn thats the joke !!! its was from a Australian ad to say drink drinking was bad but they had it made in the USA !!!! then it got fiddled with cause people here are appalled theyd get that made in the US ..

gillard hired a Malaysian crew ( muslim ) to go to america , to make a ad about drink driving in Australia

and why i plaster it about as the government is trying to hide that along with all their other BS crap

as you may have gathered i hate socialists communists and red head ranga traitors to my nation

oh never seen how to cool beer with explosives??

how about with a sheet of wet canvas ??

lotsa ways to make beer ice cold

[ShawnDow]

Jack, I enjoyed my stay there in your country... well all but for one person who was (as we Americans say) a prick! Every one (excluding Bob Bouchin) was a pleasure to interact with.

Now... how the hell do you cool beer with explosives? And how the hell did you get ahold of it? I figured it would make a big mess if you screwed something up.

[jack404]

shaped charges make a atmospheric voids for split seconds

atmospheric voids create cold , a shaped charge over a 6 pack will drop the temp to way below freezing for a sec , if you do it right and your exhaust goes over the 6 pack ( and the shock wave misses the 6 pack ) you'll have beer thats 30-40 degrees cooler than it was before you hit the bang button

get it wrong and you have scrap alu and a beery mist

[dad2thebone]

Well you need to prep. most people think "it" will never happen. what if it does though? Gardens, ammo, water supply and ammo are most important. M.r.e meals to jump start you work well and you can find all kinds of things on the net to stock up. depends on how far you want to go.good luck

[dad2thebone]

uh jack, what if your charge hits that sixer? I can blow things up but not sure bout that hahahaha

[jack404]

yeah it'll do a proper job , leave alu confetti and a beer smell and thats all but ya can do it , used to do it on the intro course for advanced ODE ( opertational demolitions and explosives)

the other one we'd do is trim chop and stack a tree with explosives

first charges blows all the branches off

next charges break the trunk at intervals then the pressure charge on top would force the trunk section to break and self stack ( sorta ) ..
but mines explosives and all those sort of things been my toys for 30 years almost

so played lots of games .. i keep telling folks how much fun the military is

[ShawnDow]

Na.. you can have the shaped charges.. I have Lake Huron... always about 40*F (or for Jacks sake.. about 8*C) .. we just tie a rock and a tether to the 6 pack and drop in the lake... it goes a lot faster when the lake is frozen over! (we do that when ice fishing). Fishing, hunting, guns, and beer ... what else do you need?

[aa1911]

in a SHTF scenario, don't count on fishing or hunting for very long. What do you think everyone else will be doing? Game and fish will be massacred pretty quick for food, I seriously doubt that it will be a viable foodsource. maybe some areas, but in the lower 48, I wouldn't lean on it too heavily!

I like the insta-chill method using explosives though, hahaha!

boom! cold beer, right here...

[ShawnDow]

I dont think Lake Huron will be running out of fish any time soon... I think its called a Great Lake for a reason... but your right about the furry critters... they will go quickly! Glad I live in Northern MI... Not too many people here... Southern Michigan with the cities will suffer first!

[cutter]

Originally Posted by ShawnDow

Na.. you can have the shaped charges.. I have Lake Huron... always about 40*F (or for Jacks sake.. about 8*C) .. we just tie a rock and a tether to the 6 pack and drop in the lake... it goes a lot faster when the lake is frozen over! (we do that when ice fishing). Fishing, hunting, guns, and beer ... what else do you need?

YOUTH!! I wish I was younger and my body not worn out! Thats the problem I will have.

[Alpo]

Originally Posted by gvw3

We won't freeze in the north. We don't need to go south to stay warm. Folks lived up here long before we had nat gas and electricity.

Yes you did. In little farming communities in the middle of the woods. Where each household could go out and cut the 60 to 100 (or more) cords of wood needed to get through the winter, with cooking and heating the house.

So, what you suppose is gonna happen in St. Paul, or Chicago, or Detroit? You know, the big cities, with millions of people in them, in the middle of nothing but asphalt, and the closest thing to a forest is either the park or maybe the oak tree in your neighbor's back yard?

Look at some of the pictures of Berlin, in '45. No gas, no oil, no coal. There were several lovely parks in Berlin. All cut down and burned.

Without industry. Without trains and trucks bringing in food and fuel, it's a toss-up as to which would happen sooner. People freeze or people starve.

At least down here we would only worry about starving.

[soundguy]

i think you summed it up pretty good.


depending on what 'it' is there are some important time lines to look at.

initial event.

whatever it is.. you'll either get hit or missed.. or be in a grey zone that may let you live for an indeterminant amount of time from hours to a month. ( ld 50/30 comes to mind .. like for radiation.. etc.. % mortality rate from exposure in # of days)

those that liove thru that initial even, and are ambulatory and not suffering and 'slow dieing' are in that '9 meal / 72 hour' critical survival window.

a BOB or what i call a 'go bag' should be prepaired to get you moving, if needed, or hunkered down if needed, and have the bare monimums you need to SURVIVE 72 hours. That means usually 2400-3000 calories of non perishible food, and 3 days water. on 800-1000c a day you might be grumpy but you will be moving.. and it will free up space to carry water.. which ideally would be 1g a day.. but in emergency rationing I can see 1l under dire rationing make it.. a go bag should be light enough to not slow you down as you may eed to move. extra weight of nice but non needed items burns fuel and slows you... my go bag has a light change of clothes I rotate out witht he season.. ie.. in winter there is a jacket and pants.. in summer it's shorts and tshirt... etc..i have a small 1st aid kit, the food / water that gets rotated ( i use bottled waters and meal repalcement nutrition supplement type bars.. i eat them for fast lunches or breakfast some times.. stuff a box of them in the bag, and rotate out every 6m ) pre packagd and easy to eat. protien, sugar, healthy fats..e tc. keep you moving. I have a small hand crank emergency radio/flashlight.. cheap job.. but does make light when spun.a nd 10 cranks gives you 1m of radio....I also pack a knife, a small wad of 1$ bills in a baggie, and a 38 revolver. it's light weight.. has low but sufficient 'man stopping' power and uses common ammo, hard to jamb...) folded map, plastic covered with grease pencil, compas and a ziplock baggie of a few usefull items like fishing line, sewing kit travel toiletries.. water tabs hand sanitizer, and a lil eye dropper bottle of bleach. bleach in that dropper bottle has good uses.. can make water biologically safe to drink or cleanse a surface wound. I also have a survival straw that filters chemical and biologicals. my 1st aid kit has norad tabs too. camo makup compact ( and yeah.. the clothes I pack are camo.. though I fo have a red bandana inthere in case I need to visually signal, as well as a small 2x2" signal mirror. that's pretty much it in my go bag. and it's light and compact in a backpack. on a side clip I have a disposable mop-lite kit. milsurp for 1st responders in sars countries. has gas mask, tyvek full body suit including hoodie and booties, nitrile gloves, and duct tape strips to tape boots to pants and gloves to sleeves and zipper enclosure in front to be taped too...hoodie is elasticiezed drawstring that clings around gas mask rubber portion that covers face. she's not air tight due to the face connection.. but you got DARN good protection for a few hours. comes with iodine scrubbies as well. if its BC ( NBC ) you got a better than average chance in that cheap mop gear... beter than tshirt and jeans anyway! ayway..t hat is with my go bag. whether I clip it and take it depends on the emergenc i'm running from. a tornado / hurricane? no wildfire? sure.. mask might be needed. terrorist invvasion? sure.. might be bio weapons or gas / chemical weapons.. blister agents..e tc.. ps.. I have a neat working civil defense meter.. the yellow ones.. radiation detector. got it as an oddity.. but it was a new , unused working unit. may never eed it.. got it cheap.. was neat..


ok..that got you going 72 hours... now you are in the immediate plan mode. you got to plan for the ext week and then month... in that time you will find out how bad it is.

a small issue like a wildfire, tornado, storm, earthquake.. liekly your go/bob bag saved you.... civizilation will start taking back over with emergency respoinders REAL quick. in a invasion.. if it is not repelled imediatly.. it may take weeks or months with lines changing. you will know likely how it's going.. if it's long term or short term by listening to your radio.

past 1 week.. you can count on utilities to fail.. power and communication grids will go down.. communication may be jambed due to traffic ont he initial day. depending ont he disaster.. electric and com may go down imediatly if an emp or a invasion.. could be jambed..e tc.

things to consider.. services run by state and local govt may cease to exist for the most part. health care may be virtually imposible to find. food? with supply lines down, no trucks / trains re-supplying.. don't count on supplies of much substance to stay on shelves past 48 hours. ( right at initial even when everyone is ducking for cover, you have a window to get supplies, if safe to travel ).. past that.. shelves will get picked.. and towards the end of that short window.. there will be fighting for shelved items. push 3 days past that and groups of people will riot over supplies. there is a common notation that society is 9 meals away from colapse..

hi population areas will be.. um.. BAD cities with tons of population and supplies that need replenishment daily.. and choked egress possibilities.... not a good picture... rural areas.. while supplies will be farther inbetween.. there will be less population to deal with... better chance to duck and cover. at that point you have to worry about the 'it' getitng you ( invaders? ) AND you have to worry about gangs getting you. that's why I think a city will be BAD...

with all the stuff going on today.. govt buy ammo and trainign for civil unrest. syria becoming a festering wort.. iran rustling it's feathers again.. who knows what form, if any, 'IT' will be....

Originally Posted by ShawnDow

With the uncertainty of whats happening (all over the World) and how it will interact with out lives when "IT" dose...
I hear people saying its going to be the Governments taking over (or collapse), the "big powers" (businesses and people of wealth) taking over, Financial collapse, what ever "IT" may be...
I see and hear of people trying to prep for "IT".

Now I'm a simple Michigander.. I know about hunting some trapping, fishing, heck I can even grow fruits and vegetables! I have the ability to hunt for food for years with the supplies I have (or defend the homestead for about .. well until some one can "places a shot on me"). I can fish, get fresh water... Lake Huron is just .9 miles away.

Thats all fine and dandy... My question comes down to this... if "Civilization" goes bully up (and we live through the "initial event" to where we can fend for ourselves), What resources will still be in effect? If people are at home protecting their interest.. they wont be at work... no one to run the power plant, water works, natural gas companies....Are we going back to the 1850's?

Whats your take on "IT"?

Just thinking out loud.

[soundguy]

remember guys.. keep yer' powder dry!

[ryan42]

I dont think there will be any services period.Most of us can fish,hunt,and grow are own food.What I think will be the biggest problem is Roaming gangs,thugs what ever you want to call them.I think what we will have to worry the most about is protection from such people.The people that dont have resources to take care of themselves are the ones thats gonna form groups to go around and try to take are resources.I think to be well protected you need to do it in numbers.What im trying to say is if its just me trying to protect my homestead and my family members it would almost be impossible to fend everyone off by myself.Im sure I could for awhile but if 15 to 20 people stormed my place im sure i would take some of them out but i couldnt get them all.The only people thats gonna freeze in the north are the homeless.In the south without airconditioning the sick and elderly will dye from heat stroke and exhaustion.Remember this you can always get warm but you cant always get cool.

[nmckenzie]

Don't know what or when IT will be, or even if it WILL be, but whatever comes down the pike the lady of the house (also a shooter/hunter/collector) and I should be in reasonably good shape. There's at least a year's worth of preserved venison, seafood, veggies and such on our pantry shelves, water is gravity flow in from a high mountain lake, and gravity flow out, heat's provided by a monster stone fireplace - which is also set up for cooking if need be, as well as a diesel fed monitor. It's not so much that we've been expecting something, IT, or whatever, to happen, but rather that we live in an area prone to power blackouts - williwaws drop trees across power lines etc, and a couple of years ago dropped one onto the mountain lake generating station itself, and there have been occasions when we've been without power - or rationed power - for a couple of weeks. We're also an isolated community in the sense that the only way in or out is by air or sea - period, so if Mother Nature's seeling frisky for extended periods supplies could grow lean. That hasn't happened since I've been here, but then our dormant volcano (Mt. Edgecumbe) hasn't erupted either. Never say never.

[soundguy]

Originally Posted by ryan42

I dont think there will be any services period.Most of us can fish,hunt,and grow are own food.What I think will be the biggest problem is Roaming gangs,thugs what ever you want to call them.I think what we will have to worry the most about is protection from such people.The people that dont have resources to take care of themselves are the ones thats gonna form groups to go around and try to take are resources.I think to be well protected you need to do it in numbers.What im trying to say is if its just me trying to protect my homestead and my family members it would almost be impossible to fend everyone off by myself.Im sure I could for awhile but if 15 to 20 people stormed my place im sure i would take some of them out but i couldnt get them all.The only people thats gonna freeze in the north are the homeless.In the south without airconditioning the sick and elderly will dye from heat stroke and exhaustion.Remember this you can always get warm but you cant always get cool.

i agree... a small trusted group is the best way to go... a single person can't stay up 24 hours a day to keep watch. A small group is mobile if needed.. and doesn't hit a region hard when scrounging for resources. a group of 6 is easier to feed than a group of 20. my closest friends and I have an emergency plan in case the civilization goes TU. we have a pre designated meeting palce and time plus an alternate in case primary is notpossible due to a set criteria.. once we meet up.. we have a primary and a secondary place to make it to. our group has a good skill set. depending on how many of us make it.. we have a core group of 5 and a possible group of 8. in that group is 2 or 3 ex military, 3 with some sort of 1st responder or paramedic, or misc medical training, 4 with extensive driving capabilities ( trucks, tractors, semi-s, heavy equipment, boats etc.. ), one has had pilots training on single engine aircraft, 2 are teachers, 2 reload, 2 with engineering backgrounds, 1 with aircraft maintenance background, 3 that hunt, 2 with divers cards, 2 with communication equipment experience, ..

if it doesnt get us on the initial opening salvo.. I think we got a chance.

and es I agree.. civil unrest will be a problem. other unprepaired people wanting your stuff...

[ShawnDow]

Ill agree with the un prepared all the way. The community I live in has a population of about 4500 people in the off season...darn tourist rack it up to 8500 in the summer... Our community for the most part have been in these parts for their life time... there are a few exceptions like my self that moved here for work... But I do have family here... and they have been here for generations. Although we are "family" here, I'm sure there are those who would abandon the family to get whatever it is they felt they needed... Who can you trust?
I trust my bolt action -06. then the type 56...