Thoughts on 22mag or LR. for self defense

[hoodedmonk]

I know this has probably been beat to death around here but please bare with me Im pretty new to this forum and basiclly a rookie when it comes to Handguns for self defense. What I'm hoping to here are pro's and cons experiences both personal and reserched. ect. ect. I know bigger is probably better ect. ect. but I would like to keep this thread about the 22 mag and LR. I recently bought another 9mm but for the last few years I've only kept around my 22 mag for protection and I almost had to use it! (a long story for someone with my typing skills) but thank God I didnt. I do However wonder how it would have served me if I would have had to pull the trigger. Lucky for me and the guy looking down the wrong end of it did the smart thing and chose to turn around and leave.

[prof_fate]

I read an article that a guy wrote after studying 10 years worth of shootings and the conclusion was there's not much difference, in the real world, between calibers.

about 50% of the perps stopped after one shot. Hey, who wants to be shot a second time, right?
All calibers were about 25% fatal. Rifles however where 80% fatal. But is your aim to kill someone? (perhaps...)
The biggest issue came with the perps that had to be shot multiple times to stop - or more specifically, wouldn't stop no matter what you did. Here the bigger calibers made a difference, but a 357 mag was the best stopping round - better than 45. Velocity is the key apparently - that's why rifles kicked butt so much.

Would I choose 22 pistol if i had something else? No. I don't want to try and walk around with a rifle in my hands, but I know my 22 rifle will kill a rabbit with one shot - my pistol, same ammo, takes 5 or more rounds to stop (as in kill) da wabbit. Very disappointing IMO.

Now a 22 won't put put nearly as much noise when fired compared to a larger round, if that matters to you. My XDm9 makes my ears ring something awful without ear muffs on. I can't imagine shooting that in my house.

As you've noted just showing a gun can change the perps mind, and I bet nobody sits there and says to themselves "Hmm, looks like a 22 so I'll keep coming" or "looks like a 45, I best leave"

[hoodedmonk]

Interesting thanks for the reply.

[The_Rifleman]

Every weapon has its place. I have a 22lr derringer I carry around the house and property. I don't plan on it killing someone, but it will help me get away, and/or aid me in getting a more powerful weapon.

I consider my derringer as a ninja would a shuriken, it is to facilitate distraction.

[Juker]

I think most of the members here have at least one .22, be it rifle or pistol, and wouldn't hesitate to call upon it for whatever need may arise. Big advantages are: low cost of ammunition, low recoil, easier to get back on target, generally higher capacities, lighter weight, lighter ammo weight (meaning more rounds can be carried), high availability, and reasonable prices.

A .22 in the hands of someone who knows what they're doing will kill something better than a .44 in the hands of someone who doesn't.

A .22 is the ideal place to start. Many of us did. If you move on up to larger calibers, that's great, but if you master whatever .22s you have and treat them well, they'll be perfectly reliable.

[tcox4freedom]

A 22lr pistol was my first carry gun back in the 70's. I had to use it a couple of times to protect myself. I also know (1st hand) that one shot with a 22lr can & will take the fight out of a BG.

Like Prof_fate said, most people don't want to get shot with anything. Once someone is shot, they rarely want to stick around to get shot again.

A 22lr certainly wouldn't be my 1st choice as a PCW. But, it is definitely better than nothing!
-

[hoodedmonk]

Any thoughts on the 22mag? when I called upon my 22 it was loaded with the mag rounds.(It has two cylinders)

[76Highboy]

I CCW either my Springfield XD45, or my GP100 .357. Both offer superior knock down power and will stop any threat of violence provided I have adequate shot placement. However, the first rule to a gunfight is to have a gun. At that point, if a .22 is all I have, then shot placement is a must at all costs.

[Double D]

You know, for years we would trap and raise hogs and sell them and we killed them in the pen with a 22 with one well placed shot every time. Like juker said, a well placed shot with a 22 is very effective. If all I had were a 22 to carry, I would gladly carry it, although it would not be my caliber of choice.

[twobit]

A NAA 22 mini-MAG with a folding grip fits well in any pocket. I carry an assortment of handguns in calibers of .380, .38/.357, 9mm, .40, 45LC. I also carry a NAA Mini-mag. I find it can be carried concealed when no other handgun (that I own) can be concealed, so sometimes on occasion it is all I carry. It is the handiest firearm to carry ALL the time. A 22 magnum has drawbacks, but is MUCH better than no firearm at all. If your goal is to "always be armed", it is very easy to drop in a pocket, and is a positive additional handgun if you are carrying any of the larger calibers as a primary handgun.

About noise: A 22 magnum from a 1-5/8 " barrel makes a LOT of noise (and flame)!

[Rhuga]

If your want to go this way with a .22 Magnum. Get the NAA "THE EARL" 22MAG 3INCH Barrel. And aim for the neck and above.

I still like my .22 LR and .38 Special Derringers. The ,22 is very accurate up to 20 feet. But the .38 is only good at about 5 feet. For the .38 to shoot better I need to take it to a gunsmith and get the trigger pull lowered so I don't pull the shot out of alignment when I squeeze off a shot.

For many years I thought of the .22 LR a very satisfactory weapon. Easy to carry and cheap to shoot. I am very accurate with it and as I got older, I decided on the .38 Special Wheel Guns. Late last year after reading a number of posts on this site I went to the 9mm semi-auto. As my eyesight gets worse, the .22 LR is still the most.
accurate in my hand.

With a .22 I like to double and triple tap when I shoot.

[oldbrass]

No , yes it will work but get a bigger gun. its a natural reaction to shoot center mass and if the perk has a gun he`ll probley shoot you full of holes after being hit with a .22 You can aim for the head but 90% of the time you`ll miss. the addrenalin will be flowing,you`ll be scared and they`re not going to stand still why you reload.

[joel6180]

I like what Double D said about killing hogs with a well placed head shot. Before I started collecting larger caliber handguns, all I had was my Ruger Mk II, and it finished off many sick or dying animals on the farm. But like he said, its not what I chose to carry now that I have larger caliber firearms. I would like to have, like another poster mentioned, something smaller to carry around the house and property that isn't so heavy and bulky, but would help out in a pinch..Joel

[jack404]

learn to shoot , and do so instinctively

then your .22wmr is fine ,

shot placement is key

2 fast to the gut will stop most folks

if hyped (or armed) two through the nose will un hype (and un arm) most folks

but its learning how to do just that for the maybe and hopefully never needed

and thats just practise and training , practise and training ...

[Zane71464]

Originally Posted by Juker

I think most of the members here have at least one .22, be it rifle or pistol, and wouldn't hesitate to call upon it for whatever need may arise. Big advantages are: low cost of ammunition, low recoil, easier to get back on target, generally higher capacities, lighter weight, lighter ammo weight (meaning more rounds can be carried), high availability, and reasonable prices.

A .22 in the hands of someone who knows what they're doing will kill something better than a .44 in the hands of someone who doesn't.

A .22 is the ideal place to start. Many of us did. If you move on up to larger calibers, that's great, but if you master whatever .22s you have and treat them well, they'll be perfectly reliable.

VERRRRY well said Juker.
A .22lr or mag is as only as good as the person holding it.
If the .22 cal is all you have, take it to the range and run it/you through differnt coarses and master the "firearm". And if ever needed you'll know "how" to use it and perhaps you'll defend yourself enough to get to a "better" place or a "better" firearm.

[Zane71464]

Originally Posted by jack404

learn to shoot , and do so instinctively

then your .22wmr is fine ,

shot placement is key

2 fast to the gut will stop most folks

if hyped (or armed) two through the nose will un hype (and un arm) most folks

but its learning how to do just that for the maybe and hopefully never needed

and thats just practise and training , practise and training ...

Also, VERRRRY well said!!!!!

[hoodedmonk]

How about the 22lr in the AR format? Longer barrel make much of a difference? Would it penatrate walls to easily in a home envirenment? How much difference between the 223 and the 22lr? (stoping power at close distance)

[mousebones]

I used to carry a sig mosquito but recently got a walther P22 and a kel tec PMR 30. I wouldn't hesitate to carry either one. the kel tec holds 30 .22 mag rounds. who wants to get shot 30 times?

[joncutt87]

A .22lr rifle WILL penetrate a wall with SIGNIFICANT force on the other side

[carver]

Drill Sergeant Joe B. Fricks Rules For A Gunfight

1. Forget about knives, bats and fists. Bring a gun. Preferably, bring at least two guns. Bring all of your friends who have guns. Bring four times the ammunition you think you could ever need.

2. Anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice. Ammunition is cheap - life is expensive. If you shoot inside, buckshot is your friend. A new wall is cheap - funerals are expensive

3. Only hits count. The only thing worse than a miss is a slow miss.

4. If your shooting stance is good, you're probably not moving fast enough or using cover correctly.

5. Move away from your attacker and go to cover. Distance is your friend. (Bulletproof cover and diagonal or lateral movement are preferred.)

6. If you can choose what to bring to a gunfight, bring a semi or full-automatic long gun and a friend with a long gun.

7. In ten years nobody will remember the details of caliber, stance, or tactics. They will only remember who lived.

8. If you are not shooting, you should be communicating, reloading, and running. Yell "Fire!" Why "Fire"? Cops will come with the Fire Department, sirens often scare off the bad guys, or at least cause them to lose concentration and will.... and who is going to summon help if you yell "Intruder," "Glock" or "Winchester?"

9. Accuracy is relative: most combat shooting standards will be more dependent on "pucker factor" than the inherent accuracy of the gun.

10. Someday someone may kill you with your own gun, but they should have to beat you to death with it because it is empty.

11. Stretch the rules. Always win. The only unfair fight is the one you lose.

12. Have a plan.

13. Have a back-up plan, because the first one won't work. "No battle plan ever survives 10 seconds past first contact with an enemy."

14. Use cover or concealment as much as possible, but remember, sheetrock walls and the like stop nothing but your pulse when bullets tear through them.

15. Flank your adversary when possible. Protect yours.

16. Don't drop your guard.

17. Always tactical load and threat scan 360 degrees. Practice reloading one-handed and off-hand shooting. That's how you live if hit in your "good" side.

18. Watch their hands. Hands kill. Smiles, frowns and other facial expressions don't (In God we trust. Everyone else keep your hands where I can see them.)

19. Decide NOW to always be aggressive ENOUGH, quickly ENOUGH.

20. The faster you finish the fight, the less shot you will get.

21. Be polite. Be professional. But, have a plan to kill everyone you meet if necessary, because they may want to kill you.

22. Be courteous to everyone, overly friendly to no one.

23. Your number one option for personal security is a lifelong commitment to avoidance, deterrence, and de-escalation.

24. Do not attend a gunfight with a handgun, the caliber of which does not start with anything smaller than "4".

25. Use a gun that works EVERY TIME. "All skill is in vain when an Angel blows the powder from the flintlock of your musket." At a practice session, throw your gun into the mud, then make sure it still works. You can clean it later.

26. Practice shooting in the dark, with someone shouting at you, when out of breath, etc.

27. Regardless of whether justified of not, you will feel sad about killing another human being. It is better to be sad than to be room temperature.

28. The only thing you EVER say afterwards is, "He said he was going to kill me. I believed him. I'm sorry, Officer, but I'm very upset now. I can't say anything more. Please speak with my attorney."

[Zane71464]

^^^^ NICE Carver! That pretty well sums "it" all up, nice and proper.

[Iron Eagle]

223 in a house is bad news. A couple of .22s to the chest would likey kill. They bounce around. Cci stingers pack a wallop. Magnums are good. Out of a pistol thay will roar loudly. The head amkes a small target when moving, so aim center of mass. Lung shots take the fight out of people. You can't fight if you can't breathe.

[jstgsn]

Follow this recipe when practicing, or dealing with an intruder.

Three rapid shots.
Two shots center mass (middle of the chest), followed by a shot between the eyes.
Repeat as needed.
Ammo is cheep, life is precious.

[3/2 STA SS]

Originally Posted by carver

Drill Sergeant Joe B. Fricks Rules For A Gunfight

1. Forget about knives, bats and fists. Bring a gun. Preferably, bring at least two guns. Bring all of your friends who have guns. Bring four times the ammunition you think you could ever need.

2. Anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice. Ammunition is cheap - life is expensive. If you shoot inside, buckshot is your friend. A new wall is cheap - funerals are expensive

3. Only hits count. The only thing worse than a miss is a slow miss.

4. If your shooting stance is good, you're probably not moving fast enough or using cover correctly.

5. Move away from your attacker and go to cover. Distance is your friend. (Bulletproof cover and diagonal or lateral movement are preferred.)

6. If you can choose what to bring to a gunfight, bring a semi or full-automatic long gun and a friend with a long gun.

7. In ten years nobody will remember the details of caliber, stance, or tactics. They will only remember who lived.

8. If you are not shooting, you should be communicating, reloading, and running. Yell "Fire!" Why "Fire"? Cops will come with the Fire Department, sirens often scare off the bad guys, or at least cause them to lose concentration and will.... and who is going to summon help if you yell "Intruder," "Glock" or "Winchester?"

9. Accuracy is relative: most combat shooting standards will be more dependent on "pucker factor" than the inherent accuracy of the gun.

10. Someday someone may kill you with your own gun, but they should have to beat you to death with it because it is empty.

11. Stretch the rules. Always win. The only unfair fight is the one you lose.

12. Have a plan.

13. Have a back-up plan, because the first one won't work. "No battle plan ever survives 10 seconds past first contact with an enemy."

14. Use cover or concealment as much as possible, but remember, sheetrock walls and the like stop nothing but your pulse when bullets tear through them.

15. Flank your adversary when possible. Protect yours.

16. Don't drop your guard.

17. Always tactical load and threat scan 360 degrees. Practice reloading one-handed and off-hand shooting. That's how you live if hit in your "good" side.

18. Watch their hands. Hands kill. Smiles, frowns and other facial expressions don't (In God we trust. Everyone else keep your hands where I can see them.)

19. Decide NOW to always be aggressive ENOUGH, quickly ENOUGH.

20. The faster you finish the fight, the less shot you will get.

21. Be polite. Be professional. But, have a plan to kill everyone you meet if necessary, because they may want to kill you.

22. Be courteous to everyone, overly friendly to no one.

23. Your number one option for personal security is a lifelong commitment to avoidance, deterrence, and de-escalation.

24. Do not attend a gunfight with a handgun, the caliber of which does not start with anything smaller than "4".

25. Use a gun that works EVERY TIME. "All skill is in vain when an Angel blows the powder from the flintlock of your musket." At a practice session, throw your gun into the mud, then make sure it still works. You can clean it later.

26. Practice shooting in the dark, with someone shouting at you, when out of breath, etc.

27. Regardless of whether justified of not, you will feel sad about killing another human being. It is better to be sad than to be room temperature.

28. The only thing you EVER say afterwards is, "He said he was going to kill me. I believed him. I'm sorry, Officer, but I'm very upset now. I can't say anything more. Please speak with my attorney."

Now remember all of this as you crap your pants in a real gun fight and the three to five seconds it takes place in....

[GatorDude]

Strangely enough, nobody ever writes on the importance of backup underwear. . .