copper fouling!!! - The Firearms Forum

dammitman · 10-21-2012, 04:18 PM

well, here it is. i am in the process of cleaning several of my rifles shot today and they have been all shot before. for this topic i will be using the 223 ar15 as my problem. i broke the barrels in as described by many folks, sites, and felt like i did a good job of cleaning, firing once, cleaning firing once, cleaning and so on and so on for at least 50 rounds. i had nothing but time for the task, it took several days of range time and alot of people looked at me like i was nuts. whatever, here is my question. no matter how many times i do it i now always have copper in the barrel. i use montana extreme products, the bore solvent and the copper killer. these both have a serious ammonia base and the copper killer when used will always produce a blue patch when allowed to soak for a few minutes. i dont think the copper will ALL ever be removed. do you think that this is normal? can all the copper ever really all be removed from a barrel? the guns i question have all be shot at least a few thousand rounds. what do you think?

JLA · 10-21-2012, 04:55 PM

You will be hard pressed to get a truly clean patch from any bore. A slight blue tint is normal for a clean bore. I clean until the heavy streaks and fouling are gone. then dry it and oil it.

Also 99% of cleaning rods and jags are brass, which reacts with the copper solvents and turns blue. so you could patch a new straw from mcdonalds and get a blue patch out the other end..

dammitman · 10-21-2012, 07:06 PM

well that sounds good. i was beginning to think that a unfired brand new rifle would come out with blue. also i use some nylon bristle brushes to just be sure and still some blue. i can tell you that i have a brand new rifle and am and have only used the hodgdon CFE223 powder for all the rounds and i can tell you that its alot better, still some blue even with nylon bristle brushes but actually slot better, i am sold on the copper fouling eraser powder for that part.

Bindernut · 10-21-2012, 09:04 PM

Yup, unless your bore is polished perfectly smooth it'll always hold a bit of copper fouling in the pores of the metal.

I do about like Josh. I'll clean until the real deep blue stuff is gone.
After I'm satisfied, I clean out the ammonia-base cleaner (I like Sweets7.62 or Barnes' CR-10) with Kroil. Final step is to oil with a heavier oil, like RemOil.
Even with a plastic or steel jag and using only nylon brushes you'll still see a blue tinge regardless of how long you scrub.

GunHugger · 10-22-2012, 06:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dammitman

well, here it is. i am in the process of cleaning several of my rifles shot today and they have been all shot before. for this topic i will be using the 223 ar15 as my problem. i broke the barrels in as described by many folks, sites, and felt like i did a good job of cleaning, firing once, cleaning firing once, cleaning and so on and so on for at least 50 rounds. i had nothing but time for the task, it took several days of range time and alot of people looked at me like i was nuts. whatever, here is my question. no matter how many times i do it i now always have copper in the barrel. i use montana extreme products, the bore solvent and the copper killer. these both have a serious ammonia base and the copper killer when used will always produce a blue patch when allowed to soak for a few minutes. i dont think the copper will ALL ever be removed. do you think that this is normal? can all the copper ever really all be removed from a barrel? the guns i question have all be shot at least a few thousand rounds. what do you think?

Could be...

What barrel? Chrome lined, non chrome lined or stainless?

CHW2021 · 10-22-2012, 08:26 AM

I agree with the above re. copper removal, you can patch forever and still get traces. I would like to comment on your choice of cleaners. You are using a heavy ammonia cleaner; ammonia can be a tad excessive for normal cleaning and can be damaging to aluminum (with prolonged exposure).
Perhaps you may want to try a less agressive product now you are aware that all the copper will never be removed. Save the stronger stuff for extreme cases. Some people have good luck with foams, others like liquid; I prefer Butch's bore shine as it can be left for an overnight soak. I use Sweets for heavy cleaning and am careful about the time it stays in the bore, that stuff is powerful, it will about take Lincoln off a penny.

If you have a chromed bore it should be a rather easy cleaning surface.

dammitman · 10-22-2012, 08:31 AM

the barrels i am using for this subject are non chrome lined. i generally use the break in as shown on the http://www.montanarifleman.com/ website on the bottom of the page under barrel contours. its pretty cut and dry.

Bindernut · 10-22-2012, 08:52 AM

CHW is correct about ammonia-based copper cleaners being kinda hard on aluminum.
But if used as per the instructions (don't leave it on too long and make sure it's all removed when you're done cleaning) it's not a problem.
If you leave the stuff on too long, it'ill etch into steel too. Yep it's potent, but if you've got heavy copper fouling ammonia is the stuff to use.

10-21-2012, 04:18 PM	#1
dammitman V.I.P. Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 241	copper fouling!!! well, here it is. i am in the process of cleaning several of my rifles shot today and they have been all shot before. for this topic i will be using the 223 ar15 as my problem. i broke the barrels in as described by many folks, sites, and felt like i did a good job of cleaning, firing once, cleaning firing once, cleaning and so on and so on for at least 50 rounds. i had nothing but time for the task, it took several days of range time and alot of people looked at me like i was nuts. whatever, here is my question. no matter how many times i do it i now always have copper in the barrel. i use montana extreme products, the bore solvent and the copper killer. these both have a serious ammonia base and the copper killer when used will always produce a blue patch when allowed to soak for a few minutes. i dont think the copper will ALL ever be removed. do you think that this is normal? can all the copper ever really all be removed from a barrel? the guns i question have all be shot at least a few thousand rounds. what do you think? -->

10-21-2012, 04:55 PM	#2
JLA TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Heart Of Texas Contributor Posts: 17,327	Re: copper fouling!!! You will be hard pressed to get a truly clean patch from any bore. A slight blue tint is normal for a clean bore. I clean until the heavy streaks and fouling are gone. then dry it and oil it. Also 99% of cleaning rods and jags are brass, which reacts with the copper solvents and turns blue. so you could patch a new straw from mcdonalds and get a blue patch out the other end.. __________________ It takes 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 3 for proper trigger squeeze. The latest caliber or gear is no substitute for experience and skill. Rifles and cartridges don't make hits -- shooters do. Fact of life: After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says WTF!

10-21-2012, 07:06 PM	#3
dammitman V.I.P. Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 241	Re: copper fouling!!! well that sounds good. i was beginning to think that a unfired brand new rifle would come out with blue. also i use some nylon bristle brushes to just be sure and still some blue. i can tell you that i have a brand new rifle and am and have only used the hodgdon CFE223 powder for all the rounds and i can tell you that its alot better, still some blue even with nylon bristle brushes but actually slot better, i am sold on the copper fouling eraser powder for that part.

10-21-2012, 09:04 PM	#4
Bindernut Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: ND, USA Posts: 2,454	Re: copper fouling!!! Yup, unless your bore is polished perfectly smooth it'll always hold a bit of copper fouling in the pores of the metal. I do about like Josh. I'll clean until the real deep blue stuff is gone. After I'm satisfied, I clean out the ammonia-base cleaner (I like Sweets7.62 or Barnes' CR-10) with Kroil. Final step is to oil with a heavier oil, like RemOil. Even with a plastic or steel jag and using only nylon brushes you'll still see a blue tinge regardless of how long you scrub. Last edited by Bindernut; 10-21-2012 at 09:05 PM..

10-22-2012, 08:26 AM	#6
CHW2021 V.I.P. Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Louisiana Posts: 467	Re: copper fouling!!! I agree with the above re. copper removal, you can patch forever and still get traces. I would like to comment on your choice of cleaners. You are using a heavy ammonia cleaner; ammonia can be a tad excessive for normal cleaning and can be damaging to aluminum (with prolonged exposure). Perhaps you may want to try a less agressive product now you are aware that all the copper will never be removed. Save the stronger stuff for extreme cases. Some people have good luck with foams, others like liquid; I prefer Butch's bore shine as it can be left for an overnight soak. I use Sweets for heavy cleaning and am careful about the time it stays in the bore, that stuff is powerful, it will about take Lincoln off a penny. If you have a chromed bore it should be a rather easy cleaning surface.

10-22-2012, 08:31 AM	#7
dammitman V.I.P. Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 241	Re: copper fouling!!! the barrels i am using for this subject are non chrome lined. i generally use the break in as shown on the http://www.montanarifleman.com/ website on the bottom of the page under barrel contours. its pretty cut and dry.

10-22-2012, 08:52 AM	#8
Bindernut Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: ND, USA Posts: 2,454	Re: copper fouling!!! CHW is correct about ammonia-based copper cleaners being kinda hard on aluminum. But if used as per the instructions (don't leave it on too long and make sure it's all removed when you're done cleaning) it's not a problem. If you leave the stuff on too long, it'ill etch into steel too. Yep it's potent, but if you've got heavy copper fouling ammonia is the stuff to use.