Savage .308 question.

[gun runner]

I have a model 10/110 trophy hunter that is a .308 and I wonder if the inside of the barrel is chrome lined. I talked to a guy at a gun shop and he said its chrome lined and that getting the barrel hot causes wear on it and other problems such as accuracy loss. I know I asked before on here about can a gun lose its accuracy from the barrel getting hot but Im just trying to figure out if the inside of the barrel is chrome lined. I thought assault rifles and ak's were but not bolt action hunting rifles. Also can I get a bull barrel for the gun or that would be too much trouble to so when Im shooting and the barrel gets hot that it wont cause any wear or damage down the line because of the heat? Also how much do you think a bull barrel would cost for the gun? Thanks

[B27]

I don't have a 110 but I do have comparable Remingtons, Rugers, Winchesters and CZ's and NONE of them are chrome lined.

Chrome lining is a protection against corrosive primers.
Modern sporting ammo does not use corrosive primers.

Also, if the bore is clean you should be able to just visually detect it being chrome lined or not.

[Zane71464]

Years ago I had a 10 and it didnt have the chrome lined barrel and cant think of any factory barreles that do, on the Savage's. Might be a barrel change on your rifle if it is indeed chrome lined?

[hardluk1]

NO chrome lineing in your savage barrel. barrel gets hot from shooting to many rounds in a short period of time and accuracy go to heck .

You want a bull barrel contact shilen- http://www.shilen.com/savageBarrels.html

[gun runner]

but from what i heard the loss of accuracy goes when you get the barrel hot but returns when it cools, i still want a bull barrel

[cpttango30]

Yes as the barrel heats up it can have stress points in the metal that would then change the harmonics and may (Even though you can't see it) change the shape of the barrel like bending it up a little.

Bull barrels don't have this problem as much as hunting rifles. But my bull barreled Rem 700 VLS in 223 weights in at 13# as outfitted for the field. My deer rifle is only 8.5#.

[JLA]

Your barrel isnt chrome lined GR.

A new Bull barrel will run you about 250+ for a good one.

[fuzebox40]

I was looking at some prices on bull barrels awhile back and decided I didn't want to shoot a bull anyway.

[Albtraum]

all about the cow barrels

[CHW2021]

With regard to the barrel question, chromed bores have been used for quite a while in bolt guns, the Japanese Arisaka is an example. To make a chromed barrel the barrel is cut differently and plated (.002 to .005 from memory) with chrome; if a "normal" barrel was chromed there would be a irregular and thinner plating that would likely peel and also ruin accuracy.
A barrel built for chrome would be somewhat easier to clean due to the less porus chromium plating.
Any barrel will distort when heated, sorry but that is a physical fact; some barrels (sporter profile/thin barrels notably) heat faster mainly because they are thinner. Heavier bull barrels heat slower; accuracy can be impaired by the un-even stresses caused during forging and or drilling and cutting the bore.

In short, a chrome barrel can be very desirable; but, would not be any less accurate than another of a different type.
Do be careful fitting a bull barrel, as mentioned above they do add a bit of weight and can make a rifle noticeably off balance.

Wear in a chrome bore is not really different than any other barrel in the sense that when the hole gets bigger accuracy falls off.

[fuzebox40]

At the risk of sounding stupid, wouldn't it take a great deal of repititious firing to put the average barrel at risk of heat damage? I can't imagine myself ever firing up those conditions but I also have to say I don't know for sure what that "condition" is. To me though, a normal shoot varies of course but I think the worst would be say .308, 4 in the mag, 1 in the chamber and if I pop'em off in 20 seconds I'm hurying. Then have a peek through the field glasses before I reload. If I shoot again in 5 or less minutes then I'm still hurrying and I don't hury.

[gun runner]

Could anyone of you tell me a model of a new Savage .308 with a bull barrel and wood stock. Ill just buy another gun

I was shooting yesterday and the same thing happened. Shoots accurate for about 10 shots then when I shoot the last 2 they wont come in as accurate. I let it cool for about 30 minutes and continue and its accurate again.

Also thanks everyone for the info.

[CHW2021]

I really hate to say it but that sounds about right for a hunting rifle. What size group are you getting and how far out are the last 2 rounds?

Even a bull barrel will have group size open as it heats; it may take a few more shots.

[hardluk1]

Go to savage arms very informative site an see what floats your boat. They have atleast 6 differnt heavy barrel rifles. Go to there very informative site and look at what want. If your still useing a plastic cheapy stock that also hurts group size if any pressure is applied differently from shot to shot. If you bang enought rounds thru a heavy barrel in a short enough time frame it to will open up groups size.

[gun runner]

1 inch groups and when the barrel gets hot the bullet holes will leave out to around 2 inches about only one or two times but then back to normal when it cools. I will check the Savage site out. I have been looking at the different models and I cant find any that say the guns have a bull barrel or not, it just says what the barrel is made of and finish. Really Im concerned about permanent accuracy loss. I hear from gun shops as well, it wont damage anything that it will make the gun lose accuracy while the time it gets hot but then goes back to normal. Im looking into the LE series, they are kind of high though. Im sure every le series gun has a heavy bull barrel

[CHW2021]

You really do not need to be concerned about a permanent loss of accuracy untill (I guess) about 10,000 rounds. The shift in point of impact is about 1" over the cold barrel group (it seems ) and over time as the stresses "relax" the gun should reduce the shift somewhat.

Don't be alarmed, if you look around you can find info or video about what happens as a bullet is fired. If you think about it you are shoving a chunk of metal that is smaller than bore diameter thru a steel tube at high pressure with some high temp gasses; that things heat up and there is flex and movement should be no great surprize.
There are shops like Cajun cryo that use heat or cold to relieve stresses in gun barrels to reduce point of impact shift, but your rifle hardly seems to need such improvement.

[fuzebox40]

Originally Posted by gun runner

Shoots accurate for about 10 shots then when I shoot the last 2 they wont come in as accurate.

What's the time frame around those ten shots gr?

[Zane71464]

A cold bore and a "heated" bore shot(s) ARE different. I can can compare this per say, ie., shooting a Remingon 700 in .30-06.
When the barrel heats up (thin barreled hunting rifle), the sub-moa spreads out. If your just target shooting, as the barrel heats up, take and pull the bolt and lean it up, in the shade and let it air cool till the heats gone.

[gun runner]

Originally Posted by fuzebox40

What's the time frame around those ten shots gr?

Id say around 15 minutes. The gun shops say it wont hurt anything but Im still concerned.

[gun runner]

Originally Posted by Zane71464

A cold bore and a "heated" bore shot(s) ARE different. I can can compare this per say, ie., shooting a Remingon 700 in .30-06.
When the barrel heats up (thin barreled hunting rifle), the sub-moa spreads out. If your just target shooting, as the barrel heats up, take and pull the bolt and lean it up, in the shade and let it air cool till the heats gone.

What I do is pull the bolt open and take the clip out but I never thought about leaning it up.

[Zane71464]

..yeap, the heat will rise right out faster leaning it up versa laying it down.
I had my Rem. .243 out this past summer on a real hot day and had to get it in the shade after not alot of rounds....didnt take many as the outdoor temp was up around
90* or so! Found a shady spot, dropped out the mag and leaned it up.

[al45lc]

I've shot hundreds of rounds in a day and have never had a problem with permanent accuracy loss in a good barrel from heat, both 'sporter' and 'bull' or heavy barrels
You may also have a barrel floating problem, I'm not familar with your models barrel bedding per se, but your experience is about normal overall.
No cause for concern.
I have a Savage 10 Scout in .308 that's a tack driver for the first 7-9 rounds, then it must be allowed to cool. That's typical of light/hunting barreled rifles.
My heavy 'varminter' barrels go anywhere from 16 - 20 rounds before affected by heat, but I would point out that heavy barrels also take longer to cool, so it can be a toss up when shooting Prairie dogs for example.

[gun runner]

Glad to hear that al. Now nothing to worry about

[fuzebox40]

I'm just trying to learn a thing or two about this myself. I'm surprized that the shot is affected that quickly. I always assumed it took many more shots at faster intervals to get hot enough to begin throwing off the shot.
This explains the problems I've also been seeing and blaming my scope, my eyes, my unsteady self, etc.

[al45lc]

It depends on the gun in many cases. Fitment of the stock to the gun is often a factor, many manufacturers don't free float barrels and this can effect the accuracy as the barrel heats up, as well as weather causing a wood stock to warp slightly and effect the barrel.
Improper torque of action bedding screws can effect the Point of Impact (P.O.I.), too tight or too loose, so a good feel or a wrench should be used to check those.
Glass bedding the rifles action and free floating the barrel will cure that too, and there are aftermarket stocks with piller bedding inserts to eliminate the problem for some guns.
I have a Garand the went from so-so to a highly accurate piece with a glass bedding job.
Then there's the barrel steel itself, some companies offer a deep freeze treatment of barrels called cryogenic tempering that lessens warping by aligning the barrels molecular structure, and improves wear.
Even the same model of gun is different from the next, so it really depends on several factors as to why a gun shoots the way it does as the barrel heats up.