Cold Bore Challenge

[Clayne_b]

This was posted on another hunting forum

"With your best field rifle, known range & favorable conditions (good visibility, light to no wind, prone on bi-pods, time on your side); how far do you feel you can hit a 6" circle with your coldbore shot (no sighters) with a 90%+ confidence (you'd be willing to put up a $100 bill on hitting it)"


I have taken a challenge upon my self to try this no matter the conditions. 20 shots on 20 different days!

I will be doing a video documentary on my progress


Today I shot from 587 yards, In very windy conditions.

Video below.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXIgvsQnu_8

[JLA]

If you keep good data a known distance shot is not that challenging to calculate, even coldbore, throughout the effective range of the cartridge. Given that you can accurately assess and make wind calls.

A real challenge is an unknown distance target of random size and shape that you have to accurately mil, dope and engage, from a random position (prone, sitting, kneeling, standing) depending on the distance and you have a time limit to do it. There is a drill that incorporates just this type of challenge. Its called an OSOK drill. And you have to have a range buddy set it up for you and not tell you what or where youre shooting. Its up to you as the operator to spot, range, dope and engage your target accurately.

Its a neat drill and really tests the overall skill of a rifleman.

[Clayne_b]

I have done stuff like that. Just seeing if I could. Its hard to do!

[todd51]

I have no experience, knowledge or skill involving the long range shooting but I do really enjoy hearing about the shooting from others that do know. Thanks for sharing.

[hardball1962]

Originally Posted by JLA

If you keep good data a known distance shot is not that challenging to calculate, even coldbore, throughout the effective range of the cartridge. Given that you can accurately assess and make wind calls.

A real challenge is an unknown distance target of random size and shape that you have to accurately mil, dope and engage, from a random position (prone, sitting, kneeling, standing) depending on the distance and you have a time limit to do it. There is a drill that incorporates just this type of challenge. Its called an OSOK drill. And you have to have a range buddy set it up for you and not tell you what or where youre shooting. Its up to you as the operator to spot, range, dope and engage your target accurately.

Its a neat drill and really tests the overall skill of a rifleman.

Spot on Bro! Well said.

[Clayne_b]

Here ya go guys. Day #2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJJA4v7pXJE

[Clayne_b]

Day #3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nVST5b13c4

[JLA]

Are you cleaning between days?

[Clayne_b]

No, I have not cleaned this rifle in a long time

[Clayne_b]

Day #4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EOMsdCqpSE

[JLA]

That makes a lot of sense as to why you say you don't see a difference.

You might consider looking up the definition of a cold bore shot.

What you are doing is simply shooting a 30 round string over a month. Just because the bore is physically cold does not mean its a cold bore shot. A cold bore shot is the very first shot fired from a Cool Clean rifle bore. Every range session should end with a proper clean up of the rifles barrel and breech. Thus providing you with the proverbial cold bore shot upon firing the first round at your next outing. That one shot at the beginning of each shooting session needs to be recorded in your data book separately so you can compile data on previous engagements for cold bore shots. only then can you predict a true cold bore shot consistently and effectively.

[Clayne_b]

If thats the case, then why ever clean it and throw that inconstancy into it?

[JLA]

Because a fouled bore doesn't shoot as well as a clean bore. You clean it to keep fouling from building up. And it only takes 1 shot to refoul it. that's why they are known as 'foulers' in the benchrest game. My question is why wouldn't you clean it and have a better performing barrel, as well as complete data for even the true cold bore shot.

It isn't an inconsistency, its a different set of parameters altogether, parameters that produce results that you can record and utilize.

[JLA]

And it wont effect any of the current data you have, that is if you keep data. And you should.

[Clayne_b]

I would not even know where to start cleaning this beast.

[JLA]

The bore is where id start. Its the heart of an accurate rifle.

Get some Montana Extreme Bore solvent a brush and some patches.

follow that with Kano Kroil a different brush and some patches.

then oil it and wipe it dry.

And the process should be repeated at the end of every shooting session. even if just 1 round is fired.

[JLA]

Also your new loads didn't work because you were trying to use existing data on previous engagements with new bullets. The VLDs are extremely ballistically efficient. They do not shed velocity as fast and they buck the wind better than most other bullet brands of the same weight.

Making the elevation call from 3.4 mils to 4 gave the bullet 2.06 minutes of elevation over its previous POI, which is about 10.9 inches at 530 yards. The plate looked to be about 10" in diameter. so you essentially overshot your target with an elevation call.

Nothing at all wrong with your VLD load. 45 gr RX15 might be a bit optimistic but the rem 700 action is strong and will handle them well. You just need good data for those bullets. And also it helps if you can convert MIL to MOA on the spot. Just remember 1 MIL is 3.438 MOA which makes .1 mil .3438 MOA, .5 mil 1.719 MOA, etc.. Itll help you make better DOPE calls on the range. Its also one of the reasons the guys at VX recommend MIL-DOT scopes with MOA turrets so youre forced to make the conversions mentally.

I also noticed the shots were kinda spread out. looked like about a 1.5-2MOA group not accounting for the overzealous elevation call. Which Im convinced is due to an extremely fouled bore.

[Clayne_b]

I am shooting with a scope that is Mil ret and mil turret, so what I see i dial, I used to run mil moa and got sick of the math. lol

[JLA]

bah. the math is what keeps our minds sharp.

Is your scope 1st focal or 2nd?

[Clayne_b]

2nd. I hope to soon get a FFP

[Clayne_b]

Day #5

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L70yF7ZO54A

[JLA]

I too am stuck with 2nd focal for now. simply because I cannot afford to drop 1st focal money. I have my choices narrowed to 2 selections though. NF NSX 5-22X50F1 mildot with MOA turrets or a Leupold Mk 4 in similar configuration. The leupy runs a shade over 1800 and the NF closer to 2800. Ouch and double ouch.. Im running a Nikon Monarch X 4-16X50 Mildot and it suits me well. MIL ranging is a moderate 12 power so as long as I don't try to Mil targets at any other magnification im good.

That could also be why your elevation call in day 4 was so overzealous. I bet your magnification setting was in further than the MIL setting the reticle is sized for. Many scopes are simply set to MIL at max power, but some are set to MIL at less like my Nikon. Which is why 2nd focal scopes can be a real PITA..

[Clayne_b]

Yeah the cost is what is keeping me from it also...


The last 2 days I have been shooting Berger 168 VLD's With RL-15 powder. And that is a load I have NO experience with. I am not blaming the results on that. But check this out

Here are some groups I shot after the Cold Bore shot with my original load with a 168gr SMK with Varget powder and the VLD RL-15


SMK< 5 shots each >VLD






Day #6 is uploading now

[Clayne_b]

Here is day #6

http://youtu.be/494qNyMM_H0

[Clayne_b]

Here is day #7

910 yards!

http://youtu.be/CBiKOrDIEls