1814 French (?) Conversion musket identification request

[AGW]

Hi all, first post and in need of some help. Anyone able to identify this musket please? Appears to be French, .75 caliber with barrel length 44 3/4. Marks / proofs include B over 1814 on barrel, crown over what I think is a cursive D on several parts, most parts bear number 9 and also number 30, KR mark on inside of lock and on barrel. VIII carved inside stock in lock recess area and also filed on side of mainspring. Letters AC on side plate and on inside of lock. Number 5 on barrel and something that looks like an L or perhaps a U. I can see a number 9 on the hammer screw and also a number 8 and the L or U stamp.

The musket looks like a Charleville design based on the stock shape including cheek cutout, barrel bands etc. I have not been able to find pictures of conversions that look the same. Will post pics shortly.

Will welcome any comments.

[jack404]

Welcome! the pic's will help

[AGW]

Established today that the musket bore about an inch in measures .708 so this is probably a .690 as one would expect, not .750 as I was informed originally. Here are some pictures.

[AGW]

Barrel mark.

[AGW]

Lock

[AGW]

Side view

[AGW]

Barrel band

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Second barrel band

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Third barrel band

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Conversion

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Trigger guard

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Side plate

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Stock inlet

[AGW]

Lock

[jack404]

ok i'll guess

a pic of the whole rifle wouuld help

but i cant place those marks

1777 austrian pattern rifle
french converted to cap 1814

told ya wild guess

its got all the signs of a austrian rifle but without the markings , its had the numbers left on and they are confusing

the stamp 1814 looks to be post convertion as that finish was filed hard and flush

after waterloo france had to scrape up weapons it had captured all over as its main arms where taken so many older weapons where converted to arm up again , i think this fits that

there where even egyptian rifles converted , sad eh i don know if this is one , but it would explain a few things what i do see

[jack404]

it this a stamp or a removed stamp ??

[jack404]

AC crown over D i cant find sorry

converted austrian pattern rifle

pedersoli makes a very good replica though they over do the brass when it should be steel but thats them

compare

( from the cattle dog here )

[AGW]

Thanks so far! The mark on the inside of the lock is a KR stamp. It's also on the barrel. Bottom line is that it (by best guess) dates to 1812 or before right? The conversion was clearly very professionally done it seems. Since we cannot find manufactured or converted by any of the large or well known places. That makes it kinda cool also. By your best guess it doesn't appear to be a "new" fake, does it?

Next big question - $650 reasonable or not? The seller wanted $850 then $750 and I offered $650. Basically figured that I couldn't get a new one at the price and old is better in my book anyway......

[AGW]

Forgot to ask about the ramrod. Who used this button style as opposed to the fluted style. The owner said this was the original rod.

[jack404]

no they;'d make it more clear to ID from stamps if it was faked if it is the charliville it was made a flinter , then way later was converted , now the file marks around where the pan was cut out and such extend to the 1814 stamp , so that stamp was done after the conversion , so think the year is when it was converted

but i cant say for sure

[Jim K]

Some parts of that musket, like the finger grooves, look French, although as Jack says, the Austrians used them as well.

Just an idea, but I wonder if it is one the many tons of anonymous muskets turned out in Liege in an era before the proof laws were enforced. As such it might well have some features common to French muskets.

Jim

[Buffalochip]

Would like to see pic of entire gun. Thje wood appears to have been sanded/cleaned ibn the not too distant pase.