Wht would you sign a petition at whitehouse.gov

I think it' time to buy stock in tinfoil hat companies. Petitions are high on the feel-good scale, as low as you can get on the significance scale. And names on lists...absurd. The burden is on those who make preposterous assertions like that to back them up with something approaching evidence.

[gvw3]

They have been monitoring all our phone calls since the early 60's. They are monitoring the internet for keywords every day. The simple fact is don't post anything you may not want them to see.

[Appliancedude]

Originally Posted by nosreme

I think it' time to buy stock in tinfoil hat companies. Petitions are high on the feel-good scale, as low as you can get on the significance scale. And names on lists...absurd. The burden is on those who make preposterous assertions like that to back them up with something approaching evidence.

Bliss sweet bliss

[carver]

Yesterday I was out in the yard, and three Army hilos flew over. I heard them well before I spotted them over the trees. Once that was a great sound, but not yesterday.

[cutter]

Originally Posted by carver

Yesterday I was out in the yard, and three Army hilos flew over. I heard them well before I spotted them over the trees. Once that was a great sound, but not yesterday.

+1

[al45lc]

I asked for proof of this so called list, not stuff like webcrawlers and key words that are well known. We are all well aware of that, but it's a far cry from a "list".
It has been stated that EVERYONE here is on a "list", with 'pertinent' data as to who we are and even guns we have.
If there is no proof of that, it's fear mongering.
Should we all stop visiting here?
My point was that the Whitehouse can and most likely does look into e-mails DIRECTLY there, that is the Secret Services job after all, but to believe that the Whitehouse has data on ALL these websites is stretching the boundries of common sense, the logistics would be staggering.
Even the FBI would be bogged in MILLIONS(10's?) of e-mails and webposts daily, there are over 266 MILLION people using the internet in North America alone.
Yes, supercomputers can and do monitor many ISP's and pickup on traffic with key words, but for them to then track down and make a "list" with "pertinent" data?
Only for the ones with many keywords and repetition of those words, and even then such a list would be staggering.
Sorry, not gonna believe it until I see real proof.

[Appliancedude]

Originally Posted by al45lc

I asked for proof of this so called list, not stuff like webcrawlers and key words that are well known. We are all well aware of that, but it's a far cry from a "list".
It has been stated that EVERYONE here is on a "list", with 'pertinent' data as to who we are and even guns we have.
If there is no proof of that, it's fear mongering.
Should we all stop visiting here?
My point was that the Whitehouse can and most likely does look into e-mails DIRECTLY there, that is the Secret Services job after all, but to believe that the Whitehouse has data on ALL these websites is stretching the boundries of common sense, the logistics would be staggering.
Even the FBI would be bogged in MILLIONS(10's?) of e-mails and webposts daily, there are over 266 MILLION people using the internet in North America alone.
Yes, supercomputers can and do monitor many ISP's and pickup on traffic with key words, but for them to then track down and make a "list" with "pertinent" data?
Only for the ones with many keywords and repetition of those words, and even then such a list would be staggering.
Sorry, not gonna believe it until I see real proof.

Sorry I no longer have a top secret clearance so I can't get you a copy of the list. Live in bliss, I don't care.

[firefighter1635]

Originally Posted by al45lc

I asked for proof of this so called list, not stuff like webcrawlers and key words that are well known. We are all well aware of that, but it's a far cry from a "list".
It has been stated that EVERYONE here is on a "list", with 'pertinent' data as to who we are and even guns we have.
If there is no proof of that, it's fear mongering.
Should we all stop visiting here?
My point was that the Whitehouse can and most likely does look into e-mails DIRECTLY there, that is the Secret Services job after all, but to believe that the Whitehouse has data on ALL these websites is stretching the boundries of common sense, the logistics would be staggering.
Even the FBI would be bogged in MILLIONS(10's?) of e-mails and webposts daily, there are over 266 MILLION people using the internet in North America alone.
Yes, supercomputers can and do monitor many ISP's and pickup on traffic with key words, but for them to then track down and make a "list" with "pertinent" data?
Only for the ones with many keywords and repetition of those words, and even then such a list would be staggering.
Sorry, not gonna believe it until I see real proof.

I can't provide you proof over the internet, do you really think anyone would? Would they risk their TS clearance to prove something over an internet forum? I really doubt it. I am far from a tin-foil hat wearer but this I can tell you, and give you my word as a man, they do monitor keywords you type, and there stored in databases. If you don't believe me threaten the POTUS openly here, multiple times or threaten "terrorism", mutiple times. I can gaurentee you'll get a visit from black suburbans. So give it a shot, you'll find the truth you've been seaking.

[1 Eyed Jack]

Originally Posted by firefighter1635

I can't provide you proof over the internet, do you really think anyone would? Would they risk their TS clearance to prove something over an internet forum? I really doubt it. I am far from a tin-foil hat wearer but this I can tell you, and give you my word as a man, they do monitor keywords you type, and there stored in databases. If you don't believe me threaten the POTUS openly here, multiple times or threaten "terrorism", mutiple times. I can gaurentee you'll get a visit from black suburbans. So give it a shot, you'll find the truth you've been seaking.

Agreed, and well stated, and the person eluding that some are fear mongering, should, perhaps, look in the mirror to locate said fear monger(s)

[Appliancedude]

Originally Posted by 1 Eyed Jack

Agreed, and well stated, and the person eluding that some are fear mongering, should, perhaps, look in the mirror to locate said fear monger(s)

I don't think AL45LC is fear mongering at all. I just don't think he comprehends the scope of what our government can do with unlimited resources.

databases upon databases of info has been collected. Remember it was Al Gore that invented the internet.

[al45lc]

Originally Posted by 1 Eyed Jack

Agreed, and well stated, and the person eluding that some are fear mongering, should, perhaps, look in the mirror to locate said fear monger(s)

Really? Are your comprehension levels that poor?
How in hell is what I posted even remotely close to fear mongering?
Read carefully, and with an open mind, My posts are level headed, acknowledging what the Govt can do, as well as pointing out the logistics of it.
To e mail the whitehouse is not a sound idea, imo. However, to state that "they" have "pertinent" data on EVERY individual who posts here (or any other website) is an entirely different matter, and without validation.
Your comment is inane in light of the posts.
In addition, I mentioned key words and acknowledged the tracking thereof, yet it was mentioned again as if I hadn't.
That hardly constitutes a list, nor pertinent individual data.
This is obviously a worthless pursuit, isn't it?
No skin off my nose, I couldn't care less, I just wanted to see this proof.
I always suspected there wasn't any, this isn't my first rodeo.

[1 Eyed Jack]

No need to get bent out of shape and be insulting, we could no more provide "proof" of this info exist's, than you could provide "proof" that is doesn't, can we agree on that??

Don't forget your hip boots and velcro gloves before you go out to rodeo...err feed the sheep

[al45lc]

As stated, no skin off my nose.
Yes agreed, no proof on either side.
It's for the best it ends this way.

[Appliancedude]

I would have loved to stay in on this last night, but we had a storm roll in and I had no internet.

It is easy to ask for proof of something that one knows, can not be givin and say well that proves it. Thats why Atheists get away with what they do. We can't PROVE God exists. We know he does, but can't prove to their satisfaction he does.

I never said that signing a petition on the white house web site was smart. I signed it, but I've never been accused of being smart either. Let them come for me, I DON'T CARE.

My point was not so much that there was a triplicate copy list of names addresses etc made up by one guy hired to read every post here. My point was that everyone here is, by the nature of this web site, and how our government views gun owners, in a government data base. They have your IP address and can find you with that. All they would need to do is put in a set of parameters and if you posted something that fit inside those parameters they could find you. They could read every post you've posted. The archives here aren't locked. It really doesn't take up that much memory. Its all data.

I wont post here if I have any guns that aren't registered. I wont post here how much ammo I have on hand. There are many things I wont post here, because I don't want anyone, including the government to know about it.

If you think I'm wrong, fine. Don't care. If you think I'm a conspiracy nut, fine. Don't care. If you think I'm a fear monger, fine. Don't care.

[WHSmithIV]

You have to sign up to the White House web site to sign a petition - including name and address. Since they get your IP address, using a phony name and address won't help a lot. Bottom line - you just gave the Gestapo a nice reason to come take your guns away.

[Appliancedude]

Originally Posted by WHSmithIV

You have to sign up to the White House web site to sign a petition - including name and address. Since they get your IP address, using a phony name and address won't help a lot. Bottom line - you just gave the Gestapo a nice reason to come take your guns away.

Nope. Name and email. Same thing though. Don't care. Let them come. Good luck. You know those guns were stolen this morning, I just got home, I havn't called the cops yet.


Seriously though. Have you ever bought a gun? You registered it. They already have your name and address when you registered the gun. Ever had your fingerprints taken? You are on a list somewhere. They have your address from when you bought your guns. Really, its not that hard to understand.

Our forefathers risked their lives for this country, they risked their lives fighting a king. Its too bad we have so many people here afraid of this government. I signed it. Want some? Come get some

Guarantee when they come get me and my guns, I'm not gonna go quite

Oh and by the way WHSmith, I remember right after the election you were hell bent on getting Holdner and Obama for treason. You still at it? Do you think your invisible to the "gestapo". You think if you cause a big enough stink, they aren't gonna come for your guns?

Or did you give up already?

[gvw3]

Yes they monitor everything on the net. Yes there is proof of this. That being said I wouldn't worry much about this unless you are doing Illegal acts and talking about it.

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/btl/top-37...monitors/78417

http://news.cnet.com/8301-1009_3-574...eillance-unit/

[carver]

Originally Posted by Appliancedude

Nope. Name and email. Same thing though. Don't care. Let them come. Good luck. You know those guns were stolen this morning, I just got home, I havn't called the cops yet.


Seriously though. Have you ever bought a gun? You registered it. They already have your name and address when you registered the gun. Ever had your fingerprints taken? You are on a list somewhere. They have your address from when you bought your guns. Really, its not that hard to understand.

Our forefathers risked their lives for this country, they risked their lives fighting a king. Its too bad we have so many people here afraid of this government. I signed it. Want some? Come get some

Guarantee when they come get me and my guns, I'm not gonna go quite

Oh and by the way WHSmith, I remember right after the election you were hell bent on getting Holdner and Obama for treason. You still at it? Do you think your invisible to the "gestapo". You think if you cause a big enough stink, they aren't gonna come for your guns?

Or did you give up already?

I did the petition too, and I feel the same way you do. When they come to get my guns, they probably will get them, in the end.