folly of arming oneself to combat government - The Firearms Forum

steve4102 · 02-17-2013, 05:51 AM

The nutty notion that a citizen can be heavily enough armed to fight off the government went up in smoke near Big Bear Lake.

This may sound crazy to most normal people, but there are some obsessed gun owners — although a minority, surely — who believe they need to arm themselves to perhaps combat government oppression.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la...2648847.column

GunnyGene · 02-17-2013, 06:16 AM

The author is correct that a (as in one) armed citizen cannot fight off the government. But 80 million armed citizens would not have a problem.

carver · 02-17-2013, 07:01 AM

The LA times! A comunist/socialist rag of a news paper, and you think that anything they have to say isn't slanted? These folks are just pushing their agenda, and they will do anything, or say anything, to get the word out to those that will follow the pipper!

steve4102 · 02-17-2013, 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carver

The LA times! A comunist/socialist rag of a news paper, and you think that anything they have to say isn't slanted? These folks are just pushing their agenda, and they will do anything, or say anything, to get the word out to those that will follow the pipper!

Like this!

Snakedriver · 02-17-2013, 07:40 AM

I guess every man needs to know his limitations....................while many will run and hide, many will stand their ground and defend America & the Constitution to the bitter end. Truthfully, the weak will just get in the way.

One man against a multitude of highly armed opponents may not stand much of a chance, but our battles will not be fought by individuals.

firefighter1635 · 02-17-2013, 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GunnyGene

The author is correct that a (as in one) armed citizen cannot fight off the government. But 80 million armed citizens would not have a problem.

I agree with Gunny.

Look at Syria for example. How long have the rebels been holding off the Syrian Military with almost nothing but small arms. One might say, "We don't have the big heavy small arms though" (automatic weapons).

We would and could get them. Not every single soul in the military would be against the population. There would be defectors, that would bring an array of munitions and knowledge, along with the knowledge of the former combat solders already amongst us.

Double D · 02-17-2013, 08:30 AM

Just another liberal puppet...

Iron Eagle · 02-17-2013, 09:22 AM

It is never folly to stand for what is right. It may prove to be fatal, but to be willing to die for a worthy cause beats living with tyranny any day.

Old Grump · 02-17-2013, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve4102

The nutty notion that a citizen can be heavily enough armed to fight off the government went up in smoke near Big Bear Lake.

This may sound crazy to most normal people, but there are some obsessed gun owners — although a minority, surely — who believe they need to arm themselves to perhaps combat government oppression.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la...2648847.column

A world of difference between a mentally deranged cop killer and a determined public refusing to be subjugated by power hungry politicians. He was a single man, we are a sleeping giant.

Alpo · 02-17-2013, 09:26 AM

Absolutely. People armed only with small arms cannot expect to fight a real army and win.

That's why we won in Vietnam, and the Russians won in Afghanistan.

Wait a minute. You mean we DIDN'T win in Vietnam? And the Russians DIDN'T win in Afghanistan? But that was armies against guerrillas, armed with small arms. The armies HAD to win. Didn't they?

1LoneWolf75 · 02-17-2013, 09:38 AM

The governments biggest advantage is fighter jets. If we were able to get organized without massin together at first we would be in better shape. Like was said it would be thousands, but if we all go together at one time and stated our reason fer the gather then they could send one jet and bomb the place. Now that bein said we would have defectors that would bring "big" arms. The jet would be the most useful thing against the right to gather. And the hardest thing to defend against.

My $.02

Airborneguy · 02-17-2013, 10:04 AM

Any effective resistance against the government requires some amount of military defections (a guarantee IMO), but also hinges on those defectors bringing some of the more advanced equipment with them. Keep in mind that whole states would likely turn on the Fed ala the civil war. If a revolt started somewhere other than Texas, does anyone really see Texas as a state government taking the side of the Fed?

MSGT-R · 02-17-2013, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old Grump

A world of difference between a mentally deranged cop killer and a determined public refusing to be subjugated by power hungry politicians. He was a single man, we are a sleeping giant.

He was also a nut-case that lost his job with the LAPD and simmered in revenge-hatred for a couple of years while he plotted his course of action.

He didn't come after "the government" he targeted a list of people he felt that had wronged him, then spun out of control from there.

SARGE7402 · 02-17-2013, 10:29 AM

Just remember the journey of a thousand miles starts with one step. So too will the resistance to an oppressive government.

aa1911 · 02-17-2013, 11:08 AM

did you see how much manpower was used to catch Dorner? Imagine if 100 other shooters were on the loose in the same area while they were trying to get him, it's no contest. "behind every blade of grass"

80 million gun owners are the strongest force in the world. All the drones, tanks and jet fighters are no match for a man fighting for his home. Or 80 million men.

Zhurh · 02-17-2013, 11:32 AM

All through our history as a nation we have experienced grass roots vigilantism, civil disobedience, and opposition to the Fed Govt's power; probably no different this time around though I pray cooler minds prevail.

1LoneWolf75 · 02-17-2013, 12:02 PM

I too hope cooler heads prevail.....but...... right now its a crap shoot. Also there are way too many people who as law abidin citizens will willingly go along with the turn ins and buy backs. In short we have to watch and see before we take any drastic action that may turn out unnecessary. I do think that we defiantly need to make ourselves heard at all levels though.

Haligan · 02-17-2013, 04:21 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyenRCJ_4Ww

"Spartans, lay down your weapons ! ! !"

"Hey G.I., stop fighting the statue of Liberty is Kaput"

WHSmithIV · 02-17-2013, 04:49 PM

Well, it's a fact that nobody in their right mind would believe that their small arsenal and their two hands would be able to do much against a platoon determined to take their weapons away. I certainly don't. At best, I could make it so that my death took out more than just one (maybe several) before I went down.

There is no way that one armed person is going to stop tyranny. That takes many armed and organized people. Make no mistake here, people are organizing and reluctantly so. Nobody wants to see our country degenerate into a civil war that would have far more reaching international ramifications, other than just the internal civil war. One of those ramifications of which is opening the country up to potential invasions.

What will happen really depends on whether or not obozo really has the fortitude to try to make the takeover. I don't think he does. I don't see it in him. I think that originally, that was his plan but that he has found that it is quite impossible to actually do. So, he is settling for destroying as much as he can before he's out. So, the best thing to do is get him out as fast as possible so damage control can be implemented.

What I see is articles of impeachment being filed within the next 6 months. He may be out within the year. That will work ok.

WHSmithIV · 02-17-2013, 05:02 PM

As an additional note, has anybody thought of what would happen in this country if civil war did erupt? Many of the first casualties would be muslims, somali refugees and that would be followed by illegal immigrants. In a full blown civil war you can very well know that anybody deemed a danger would be shot and that would include a lot of children. Do not underestimate the anger and fortitude when it comes to having a belief of righteousness.

I would rather see our country solve our problems by use of intelligence than through bloodshed. One civil war is enough for any country.

Will I stand up and defend the Constitution with my life if need be? Of course I will. I swore to do so long ago and the oath had no time limit on it.

David13 · 02-17-2013, 05:26 PM

80 million gun owners.
But how could they ever work in unison as one unit?
CB radio?
Ham radio?
The internet?
There is no communication. Word of mouth will hardly do much.
Guess who is in charge of all the means of communication.
Of those 80 million, probably almost all of them have jobs, houses, pensions, families, bank and savings accounts, atm cards, vehicles, cars, trucks, etc; do you really think they would abandon that and go into kill mode on a moments notice?
How would they even get the notice?
dc

GunnyGene · 02-17-2013, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David13

80 million gun owners.
But how could they ever work in unison as one unit?
CB radio?
Ham radio?
The internet?
There is no communication. Word of mouth will hardly do much.
Guess who is in charge of all the means of communication.
Of those 80 million, probably almost all of them have jobs, houses, pensions, families, bank and savings accounts, atm cards, vehicles, cars, trucks, etc; do you really think they would abandon that and go into kill mode on a moments notice?
How would they even get the notice?
dc

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GunnyGene · 02-17-2013, 07:45 PM

I wrote to the author of this article this morning (George Skelton/ LATimes), and just received a reply. Y'all will be happy to hear that we (gun owners, etc.) are a bunch of screwballs according to Mr. Skelton.

This is what I wrote:

Quote:

You are correct that a (as in one) citizen could not "fight off the government". But 80 million armed citizens would not have a problem with that, especially when you consider that several million of those armed citizens would be current and former military with access to the same armament, and the same skills, as the 'government'. You forget that the military swears allegiance to the Constitution. ie. The People, not the current administration (much to their dismay) .

And this was his reply:

Quote:

It’s fantasyland to think that 80 million people are going to rise up to overthrow the USA. And why in hell would they do that? Good, gawd man. You referred to the Constitution. That’s what protects us, not a bunch of screwballs with guns. The constitution will be protected by the Supreme Court and the extraordinary steps required to amend it.

The last time a bunch of rebels tried that they got their rears handed to them 150 years ago.

George Skelton

I think I scared him just a little.

Airborneguy · 02-17-2013, 08:19 PM

Unfortunately, you definitely did not scare him. He believes every word he wrote with all his heart. These people are as committed as we are.

GunnyGene · 02-17-2013, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Airborneguy

Unfortunately, you definitely did not scare him. He believes every word he wrote with all his heart. These people are as committed as we are.

Perhaps not. But it at least planted a little seed for him to think about, or he wouldn't have replied so forcefully - or at all.

02-17-2013, 05:51 AM	#1
steve4102 Former Guest Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Minnesota Contributor Posts: 2,760	folly of arming oneself to combat government The nutty notion that a citizen can be heavily enough armed to fight off the government went up in smoke near Big Bear Lake. This may sound crazy to most normal people, but there are some obsessed gun owners — although a minority, surely — who believe they need to arm themselves to perhaps combat government oppression. http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la...2648847.column -->

02-17-2013, 06:16 AM	#2
GunnyGene Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 1,962	Re: folly of arming oneself to combat government The author is correct that a (as in one) armed citizen cannot fight off the government. But 80 million armed citizens would not have a problem.

02-17-2013, 07:01 AM	#3
carver TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: DAV, Deep in the Pineywoods of East Texas, just west of Shreveport, LA Contributor Posts: 11,251	Re: folly of arming oneself to combat government The LA times! A comunist/socialist rag of a news paper, and you think that anything they have to say isn't slanted? These folks are just pushing their agenda, and they will do anything, or say anything, to get the word out to those that will follow the pipper! __________________ Y'all be safe now, ya hear! Lamentations Chapter 5: 1. Remember, O LORD, what is come upon us: consider, and behold our reproach. 2. Our inheritance is turned to strangers, our houses to aliens. 3. We are orphans and fatherless, our mothers [are] as widows. 5. Our necks [are] under persecution: we labour, [and] have no rest. 16. The crown is fallen [from] our head: woe unto us, that we have sinned! 21. Turn thou us unto thee, O LORD, and we shall be turned; renew our days as of old.

02-17-2013, 07:40 AM	#5
Snakedriver Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: SW. Florida Posts: 1,219	Re: folly of arming oneself to combat government I guess every man needs to know his limitations....................while many will run and hide, many will stand their ground and defend America & the Constitution to the bitter end. Truthfully, the weak will just get in the way. One man against a multitude of highly armed opponents may not stand much of a chance, but our battles will not be fought by individuals. Attached Images __________________ Fear is a reaction..........Courage is a decision

02-17-2013, 08:30 AM	#7
Double D TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: North Florida Contributor Posts: 8,062	Re: folly of arming oneself to combat government Just another liberal puppet... __________________ I own a bunch of scary guns. You want em? Come and take em..... Liberalism is a serious, non curable, mental disorder... NRA LIFE MEMBER Oath Keepers Member NRA Certified Instructor 30 Yr CC permit holder.

02-17-2013, 09:22 AM	#8
Iron Eagle Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Louisiana Posts: 653	Re: folly of arming oneself to combat government It is never folly to stand for what is right. It may prove to be fatal, but to be willing to die for a worthy cause beats living with tyranny any day.

02-17-2013, 09:26 AM	#10
Alpo Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: NW Florida Posts: 8,654	Re: folly of arming oneself to combat government Absolutely. People armed only with small arms cannot expect to fight a real army and win. That's why we won in Vietnam, and the Russians won in Afghanistan. Wait a minute. You mean we DIDN'T win in Vietnam? And the Russians DIDN'T win in Afghanistan? But that was armies against guerrillas, armed with small arms. The armies HAD to win. Didn't they? __________________ Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy, and taste good with catsup - George of Lod, Year of Our Lord 297 I always take precautions. Beware the Evil Bullet Fairies.

02-17-2013, 09:38 AM	#11
1LoneWolf75 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Humboldt KS Posts: 587	Re: folly of arming oneself to combat government The governments biggest advantage is fighter jets. If we were able to get organized without massin together at first we would be in better shape. Like was said it would be thousands, but if we all go together at one time and stated our reason fer the gather then they could send one jet and bomb the place. Now that bein said we would have defectors that would bring "big" arms. The jet would be the most useful thing against the right to gather. And the hardest thing to defend against. My $.02 __________________ They can have my guns when they pry them from my cold, dead hands!!! "Democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who are not." - Thomas Jefferson "I've seen the system fall apart from the rules and all our presidents lie"--"Soul Survive"- Asphalt Ballethttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6DgVrYWw00

02-17-2013, 10:04 AM	#12
Airborneguy V.I.P. Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Staten Island, NY Posts: 424	Re: folly of arming oneself to combat government Any effective resistance against the government requires some amount of military defections (a guarantee IMO), but also hinges on those defectors bringing some of the more advanced equipment with them. Keep in mind that whole states would likely turn on the Fed ala the civil war. If a revolt started somewhere other than Texas, does anyone really see Texas as a state government taking the side of the Fed? Last edited by Airborneguy; 02-17-2013 at 10:05 AM..

02-17-2013, 10:29 AM	#14
SARGE7402 V.I.P. Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Virginia Posts: 121	Re: folly of arming oneself to combat government Just remember the journey of a thousand miles starts with one step. So too will the resistance to an oppressive government.

02-17-2013, 11:08 AM	#15
aa1911 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Pacific Northwest Posts: 3,113	Re: folly of arming oneself to combat government did you see how much manpower was used to catch Dorner? Imagine if 100 other shooters were on the loose in the same area while they were trying to get him, it's no contest. "behind every blade of grass" 80 million gun owners are the strongest force in the world. All the drones, tanks and jet fighters are no match for a man fighting for his home. Or 80 million men. __________________ "Loud noises don't end gunfights.... well placed shots do."

02-17-2013, 11:32 AM	#16
Zhurh Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Upper Yukon, Alaska Posts: 1,813	Re: folly of arming oneself to combat government All through our history as a nation we have experienced grass roots vigilantism, civil disobedience, and opposition to the Fed Govt's power; probably no different this time around though I pray cooler minds prevail.

02-17-2013, 12:02 PM	#17
1LoneWolf75 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Humboldt KS Posts: 587	Re: folly of arming oneself to combat government I too hope cooler heads prevail.....but...... right now its a crap shoot. Also there are way too many people who as law abidin citizens will willingly go along with the turn ins and buy backs. In short we have to watch and see before we take any drastic action that may turn out unnecessary. I do think that we defiantly need to make ourselves heard at all levels though. __________________ They can have my guns when they pry them from my cold, dead hands!!! "Democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who are not." - Thomas Jefferson "I've seen the system fall apart from the rules and all our presidents lie"--"Soul Survive"- Asphalt Ballethttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6DgVrYWw00

02-17-2013, 04:21 PM	#18
Haligan Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: FEMA Region II Posts: 1,900	Re: folly of arming oneself to combat government http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyenRCJ_4Ww "Spartans, lay down your weapons ! ! !" "Hey G.I., stop fighting the statue of Liberty is Kaput" __________________ "He who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falshoods and errors." - Thomas Jefferson

02-17-2013, 04:49 PM	#19
WHSmithIV Advanced Senior Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: Moore, Idaho contributor Posts: 2,612	Re: folly of arming oneself to combat government Well, it's a fact that nobody in their right mind would believe that their small arsenal and their two hands would be able to do much against a platoon determined to take their weapons away. I certainly don't. At best, I could make it so that my death took out more than just one (maybe several) before I went down. There is no way that one armed person is going to stop tyranny. That takes many armed and organized people. Make no mistake here, people are organizing and reluctantly so. Nobody wants to see our country degenerate into a civil war that would have far more reaching international ramifications, other than just the internal civil war. One of those ramifications of which is opening the country up to potential invasions. What will happen really depends on whether or not obozo really has the fortitude to try to make the takeover. I don't think he does. I don't see it in him. I think that originally, that was his plan but that he has found that it is quite impossible to actually do. So, he is settling for destroying as much as he can before he's out. So, the best thing to do is get him out as fast as possible so damage control can be implemented. What I see is articles of impeachment being filed within the next 6 months. He may be out within the year. That will work ok. __________________ We are not sheeple, we will not fade quietly away. We will stand up for Freedom, for our rights, and, we will fight to protect the Constitution and our Freedom. We are the militia, we are the PEOPLE. Last edited by WHSmithIV; 02-17-2013 at 04:50 PM..

02-17-2013, 05:02 PM	#20
WHSmithIV Advanced Senior Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: Moore, Idaho contributor Posts: 2,612	Re: folly of arming oneself to combat government As an additional note, has anybody thought of what would happen in this country if civil war did erupt? Many of the first casualties would be muslims, somali refugees and that would be followed by illegal immigrants. In a full blown civil war you can very well know that anybody deemed a danger would be shot and that would include a lot of children. Do not underestimate the anger and fortitude when it comes to having a belief of righteousness. I would rather see our country solve our problems by use of intelligence than through bloodshed. One civil war is enough for any country. Will I stand up and defend the Constitution with my life if need be? Of course I will. I swore to do so long ago and the oath had no time limit on it. __________________ We are not sheeple, we will not fade quietly away. We will stand up for Freedom, for our rights, and, we will fight to protect the Constitution and our Freedom. We are the militia, we are the PEOPLE. Last edited by WHSmithIV; 02-17-2013 at 05:05 PM..

02-17-2013, 05:26 PM	#21
David13 V.I.P. Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 88	Re: folly of arming oneself to combat government 80 million gun owners. But how could they ever work in unison as one unit? CB radio? Ham radio? The internet? There is no communication. Word of mouth will hardly do much. Guess who is in charge of all the means of communication. Of those 80 million, probably almost all of them have jobs, houses, pensions, families, bank and savings accounts, atm cards, vehicles, cars, trucks, etc; do you really think they would abandon that and go into kill mode on a moments notice? How would they even get the notice? dc

02-17-2013, 08:19 PM	#24
Airborneguy V.I.P. Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Staten Island, NY Posts: 424	Re: folly of arming oneself to combat government Unfortunately, you definitely did not scare him. He believes every word he wrote with all his heart. These people are as committed as we are.