Rifle easier to find than .357

[Alpo]

Soft point basically just means it has exposed lead.

These three are "pointed soft points".



This would be a flat-nosed jacketed soft point (JSP), and is what most JSP revolver ammo bullets will look like.



These are all soft points, and as you can see some look very different from the others.



The 3rd from the right is a Round-Nose Soft Point. The second from the left is a Flat Nosed soft point pistol bullet. And notice that the far left, although there is jacket all the way to the end, since it has exposed lead, it also meets the definition of a soft point.


That's why I prefer this bullet in my lever guns.



It's called a Round Nose Flat Point. The RNFP was designed with tube magazines in mind. It has the rounded shape, to feed through the action easily, but has a large flat point, so the bullet nose is resting on the head of the cartridge in front of it, and not on the primer.

Oh, and we can't forget this. It is a RN SP for an M1 Carbine. Notice, lots of jacket and very little actual soft point exposed.

[soundguy]

supplier I get my 762x39 milsurp from ( face to face deal.. not tele / internet).. just told me the last pallate he bouught went up 1000$ over night.. and his bulk supplier stopepd selling to him by the pallate after that order.. by the case only now..

Originally Posted by Ruger_Fan

I don't think we are going to have another ammo shortage. Retailers love panic buying. In 2008 and 2009 we had 2 wars going on and George Bush gave the military plenty of funding on his way out. We have no reasons for an ammo shortage now. The only thing driving up ammo prices are people panic buying. Don't you all think retailers read our words? Don't you think unscrupulous vendors will support all these gloom and doom news letters circulating around the internet?

9mm combos are cheap and easy to get for starters. You can pick up a Hi Point carbine real cheap and your choice of handgun. Once you learn a little more about what suits you. That is when you spend big bucks and get a magnum handgun and an expensive rifle.

You might discover the 9mm is all you need or that a magnum handgun cartridge is not what you need in a rifle.

[Ruger_Fan]

Originally Posted by soundguy

supplier I get my 762x39 milsurp from ( face to face deal.. not tele / internet).. just told me the last pallate he bouught went up 1000$ over night.. and his bulk supplier stopepd selling to him by the pallate after that order.. by the case only now..

I just bought 120 rounds of brown bear 203 gr 7.62x54 ammo for less than .50 a round. Maybe the hole that all the milsurp ammo was in went dry. manufactured ammo sure isn't going up. I ordered a case of 357 ammo that did get back ordered until 12/10 for less than $19 a box Fiocchi. Most of the time I get ammo before the back order date. It's hard for me reload JSP ammo for that price. To start off with I am having a hard time finding JSP bullets. I can reload cast rounds similar to double tap ammo easier.

[soundguy]

i have some reloadable 762x39 brass and a box of projectiles on the shelf, plus die sets, just beacuse.. in case I need some handload rounds.. IE.. not commercial production run..e tc.. however for 99% of my x39 shooting.. I just can't touch buying the stuff steel cased disposable by the spam can or battlepack.

[JLA]

Originally Posted by Alpo

Normal jacketed bullets are made by taking a copper piece that looks like a handle-less cup, and putting lead in it. Then, under pressure, they shape the bullet.

If you want a soft-nosed bullet, you have the "mouth" of the cup up, so the lead is exposed at the top. You can just leave the lead exposed - soft point - or drill a hollow into the exposed lead - hollow point.

If you want a bullet that is not soft-nosed, you put the mouth of the cup down, so that the bottom of the cup becomes the nose of the bullet. You can shape it pointed, like a military rifle bullet, or shape it round, like a military pistol bullet. Either one is considered "Full Metal Jacket", since all the bullet you see, outside the cartridge case, is covered in the copper jacket.

Full Metal Jacket and Full Metal Case is the same thing.

Now, since you make a FMJ by turning the cup of lead upside down and making the bullet nose on the BOTTOM of the cup, the open mouth of the cup is the bullet base.

Fully encapsulated is, instead of filling a cup with lead and then shaping, they electroplate a lead slug with copper, and then shape it. The entire bullet is covered with copper - there is no lead exposed.

There are two reasons for that. One is that you use less copper, so it is cheaper. That is why Ranier came up with the process.

The second one is that, when you fire a gun, you obviously have burning powder pushing at the base of the bullet. With a FMJ, you have the base of the bullet being exposed lead. The burning powder vaporizes some of the lead, which gets into the air. Shooting indoors, with this vaporized lead in the air, means you are breathing the vaporized lead.

So say the people that think it's a great idea. They use lead in the making of primers, also, and they now have "Non-Toxic" primers that don't use lead, for the same reason. Firing them indoors means more lead in the air, and you breath the lead.

I don't believe the danger exists, but someone must, because the NT ammo was made to prevent it.

Alpo, your paint illustrations are epic!

[Alpo]

Thank you, thank you. No applause, please. Just throw money.

Confucius was the one that said a picture is worth a thousand words, right?

[JLA]

indeed it is.

[76Highboy]

Originally Posted by soundguy

hmm.. still something to think about.. might be alot easier ont he hand.. especially if some gun show cheap 44spl turned up.

I don't see many wheelguns chambered in it for sale very often..

thanks for the info. I suspected as much.. but wasn't 'for sure'

44 spl is a great defense round. Ire load a lot of 44 spl from time to time.

[aa1911]

Originally Posted by Ruger_Fan

How does an aluminum cleaning rod damage a steel rifle barrel. I can see a nylon bore snake wearing out a steel barrel. While it is best to clean a barrel from the chamber wearing out the barrel isn't the problem. Starting from the chamber does ensure that your gun is not loaded.

I have several semi-auto rifles that I have been cleaning from the muzzle with aluminum cleaning rods for over 35 years. None of them have suffered any damage to the rifling or muzzle crown.

What?

a bore snake will wear out your barrel moreso than an aluminum rod? I'm lost there.

And if you need to clean from the breach because you might accidentally have a round in the chamber, you need some serious education on firearms safety, just sayin'

that's how folks shoot themselves while 'cleaning' their guns. just doesn't make sense to me.

the M1A is a good example of clean only from the muzzle direction due to design, a 20g shotgun hull with the primer anvil/flashole drilled out makes a great bore guide FWIW at this point. plenty of cheap alternatives to the expensive cleaning gizmos offered.

and cleaning from the muzzle (although I certainly prefer the other way if I had the choice) is just fine, been cleaning some of my guns like that for many a moons and all shoot just as good as they did originally.

SHTF scenario, everyone's needs may be different and vary by 'disaster' or whatever cause.

But guns like the AR, M1A, AK have more advantages in more scenarios than pretty much anything else.

Firepower, range, accuracy and ammo choices not to mention commnality.

you could use a special purpose gun to snipe me at 1000m and say that's all you'll ever need but if I sneak up and smoke you at 100 with my 'innaccurate' AK, well, you lose.

or if you only think close range is all you need and find yourself in the open with a .22 LR pistol against a guy with a semi rifle... well, you lose...

there's a reason the miltary accross the globe use semi auto 'assault' rifles... they are most effective in 99% of scenarios.

so not to slight RunningOMT, but there is a 'best' league of firearms out there for everyone. But for certain, some will choose what they think makes best sense to them and fair enough.

the saying, 'beware of the man with only one gun, for he knows how to use it' is a fair statement also. If you can shoot the eye out of a hawk flying with your old XYZ bolt gun that you've reloaded a million times in a hurry, well, that's what you should use and keep.

[RunningOnMT]

Originally Posted by aa1911

And if you need to clean from the breach because you might accidentally have a round in the chamber, you need some serious education on firearms safety, just sayin'

that's how folks shoot themselves while 'cleaning' their guns. just doesn't make sense to me.

Did you mean clean from the muzzle? You do know what a breach is don't you?

[RunningOnMT]

Alpo...or maybe JLA because I know you test this stuff; how much does the bullet shape effect velocity? And secondly, do the wad cutters and flatter nosed bullets tend to tumble in shorter pistol calibers? They sure don't look very aerodynamic.

[JLA]

Bullet shape directly effects Ballsitic co-efficient which is the bullets ability to retain velocity. Bullet composition, weight, and length of bearing surface effect pressures generated with a particular powder charge which determines how much velocity is generated.. Once the bullet leaves the bore it begins to slow down. How fast that happens depends on its BC vallue. Of course this is all moot if your rifling pitch and velocity isnt sufficient enough to impart the required RPM for the bullet to be stable in flight.

Confused yet??

As to the Aluminum cleaning rod VS boresnake.. Boresnakes wont wear a bore.. at all. they are bronze bristles sewn into a nylon rope. An aluminum rod will wear a bore in that it is a softer metal and collects dirt and grit and acts as a lap. Most people wont notice any accuracy damage because most people do well to shoot minute of grapefruit at 100 yds. But take an aluminum rod to a heavy bench gun that is capable fo .150" groups at 100 yds and start cleaning it with an aluminum rod and it wont be long before the best itll do is .500"

I also advise against aluminum or steel rods. I use Bore snakes, Carbon fiber rods and Bore guides.

BTW, AA, that shotshell trick is fricken genious..

[RunningOnMT]

Have you ever chronographed the difference in velocities of various shaped bullets of the same grain wt...fired from the same gun?


As to aluminum damaging steel; a real good way to prove that aluminum will damage steel is to take a piece of high polished stainless steel and firmly run a piece of aluminum back and forth across the surface, then notice the scratches in the ss. Whenever there's friction between too different metals, there is deformation produced on both, though the softer metal may sustain more deformation.

[ozo]

"One thing of which you should be aware, the Hornady owner is a big Obama supporter. A lot of folks are boycotting them for this reason."---ROMT

This is his sister.....yes , a family run biz.....
and mostly her loser lib anti-gun husband........
Her brother, the CEO, has several statements
in rebuttal for his sisters views and his BIL's
lame stance and beliefs......

Google Margaret Hornady and her hubby David....
I can't seem to find the rebuttal and his stance on
the 2A from her brother, the CEO......but he AIN'T
happy with his sisters s**t !

He assures us that his ground is firm on the 2A...
despite the lameness of his sister and hubby.

I don't know what the actual truth is...between
his ears, but he says [CEO] that he stands NOT
with his sister.....nor does Hornady, the company.

[ozo]

Originally Posted by JLA

SHTF?? Sheesh..

Im a ninja.. I just need my sword.

And... a 2' ninja fishing rod.....
and a good black dog !!!

[ozo]

Originally Posted by Kristie

Yep, the Rossi is the one I ended up having to get. So not round nose and full metal jacket. Bummer, those seemed to be the ones that fed well. What a guessing game this all is! Thanks for the info, though.

When you go to the store to look at ammo
for your tubular magazine Rossi .357............
Simply, all you want to make sure of is that
the 'nose' of the projectile WILL NOT be pointed
in shape as to contact the primer on the round
in front of it, in the tubular magazine.
Easy.....open the box of ammo, take out two
rounds, and hold them in line to one another,
putting the nose of one against the primer of
another, and see if you think it would hit the
primer upon any impact or shock...in the magazine.
The .38 and the .357 are REVOLVER rounds, and in a
revolver cylinder, they never touch each other.....
but end to end in a tube mag.....upon recoil shock,
one projectile can ignite the primer in front of it.....
if that makes clear sense, if the projectile is pointed
enough to impact the primer it is resting against.
It is rare to ever happen.....but can.

[ozo]

Not a guessing game, just physics....
plain, simple.
For those of us that re-load, it is so
easy....we pick our components for the task
at hand.
Once you grasp what to look for......
it's a cake walk into town.

[ozo]

Kristie
You just keep going forward
on the path that you are on.......
You have done an incredible job so far......
And you keep asking and you keep telling.....
For someone that hasn't 'been one' [shooter]
for even a year yet......you are far ahead of
so many that I see on a regular basis.....that have been
on their path for far longer than you.
Kudos to you and your achievements so far.....
Now, the GP-100..........
you will be so happy........

[JLA]

Originally Posted by RunningOnMT

Have you ever chronographed the difference in velocities of various shaped bullets of the same grain wt...fired from the same gun?


As to aluminum damaging steel; a real good way to prove that aluminum will damage steel is to take a piece of high polished stainless steel and firmly run a piece of aluminum back and forth across the surface, then notice the scratches in the ss. Whenever there's friction between too different metals, there is deformation produced on both, though the softer metal may sustain more deformation.

cant say i have directly. Im sure I have and if I go thru my notes ill be able to put the 2 together but I have not compared them directly.

Generally the higher the pressure the higher the velocity. So lets talk .45s for a sec, a 230 gr bullet with a stubby nose profile and a long bearing surface will run at a higher velocity than a 230 gr bullet with a long round nose profile and a shorter bearing surface, powder charges being equal..

[RunningOnMT]

Originally Posted by ozo

"One thing of which you should be aware, the Hornady owner is a big Obama supporter. A lot of folks are boycotting them for this reason."---ROMT

This is his sister.....yes , a family run biz.....
and mostly her loser lib anti-gun husband........
Her brother, the CEO, has several statements
in rebuttal for his sisters views and his BIL's
lame stance and beliefs......

Google Margaret Hornady and her hubby David....
I can't seem to find the rebuttal and his stance on
the 2A from her brother, the CEO......but he AIN'T
happy with his sisters s**t !

He assures us that his ground is firm on the 2A...
despite the lameness of his sister and hubby.

I don't know what the actual truth is...between
his ears, but he says [CEO] that he stands NOT
with his sister.....nor does Hornady, the company.

That's great news ozo because I love Hornady ammo...quality stuff at a comparatively reasonable price.

[Kristie]

Originally Posted by ozo

Kristie
You just keep going forward
on the path that you are on.......
You have done an incredible job so far......
And you keep asking and you keep telling.....
For someone that hasn't 'been one' [shooter]
for even a year yet......you are far ahead of
so many that I see on a regular basis.....that have been
on their path for far longer than you.
Kudos to you and your achievements so far.....
Now, the GP-100..........
you will be so happy........

Wow, thanks - it doesn't feel like I know what I'm doing at all. Maybe I'm a faster learner than I realized. Guess I'm young enough to adapt, or something.

I might be rethinking the GP-100 after seeing how much the .357 kicks in the Rossi. I don't know now. I might consider a heavier-framed revolver. But the downside is it might be too heavy, then. Grrr, decisions decisions. Could be I just need to get used to the round a little more. We'll see.

[Alpo]

Well, that's two of us.

I was quite shocked to find out how much recoil the 92 has in 357. It's pretty close to a 94 in 30/30. It's a heavier bullet, and while it's not quite as fast, the gun is about a pound lighter. To put it plainly, that gun kicks.

Now, I got 92s in 32/20, 357, 38/40, 44/40, 44 magnum and 45 Colt. None of the others, and that includes the 44 magnum, kick as much as the 357. I mostly shoot 38s in mine, simply because it is more comfortable.

Don't get me wrong. It's not like touching off a 458 Win Mag, but it's not like shooting a 22, either.

But I had about decided, based on stuff others post, that I was the only one in the world with a 357 rifle that kicked.

[Kristie]

Originally Posted by Alpo

Well, that's two of us.

I was quite shocked to find out how much recoil the 92 has in 357. It's pretty close to a 94 in 30/30. It's a heavier bullet, and while it's not quite as fast, the gun is about a pound lighter. To put it plainly, that gun kicks.

Now, I got 92s in 32/20, 357, 38/40, 44/40, 44 magnum and 45 Colt. None of the others, and that includes the 44 magnum, kick as much as the 357. I mostly shoot 38s in mine, simply because it is more comfortable.

Don't get me wrong. It's not like touching off a 458 Win Mag, but it's not like shooting a 22, either.

But I had about decided, based on stuff others post, that I was the only one in the world with a 357 rifle that kicked.

Now that is very interesting! Here I thought I was just being a wimp or something. Or that maybe the rounds of 357 I was using had too many grains. So maybe I'm worrying about the revolver unnecessarily. Hmmmmm. I didn't think it was that uncomfortable, but I found myself hesitating longer to pull the trigger trying to get myself ready for the kick. It probably could've gotten uncomfortable, but I only tried 10 rounds. I'm sure I'll be shooting mostly 38s in it anyway.

[aa1911]

Originally Posted by RunningOnMT

Did you mean clean from the muzzle? You do know what a breach is don't you?

no, I meant breach; the chamber end, not from the muzzle.

He had said one of the reasons to clean from the chamber/breach end was that it ensured there wasn't a round in there versus cleaning from the muzzle or business end would not until you already had the cleaning device inside the bore.

It's just my opinion that if that's even a reason to clean from the chamber end, firearms safety needs some serious attention.

I hear stories all the time where someone was 'cleaning' their gun when it went off! Darwinism at it's finest...

[RunningOnMT]

Originally Posted by aa1911

no, I meant breach; the chamber end, not from the muzzle.

He had said one of the reasons to clean from the chamber/breach end was that it ensured there wasn't a round in there versus cleaning from the muzzle or business end would not until you already had the cleaning device inside the bore.

It's just my opinion that if that's even a reason to clean from the chamber end, firearms safety needs some serious attention.

I hear stories all the time where someone was 'cleaning' their gun when it went off! Darwinism at it's finest...

Gotcha. He was a nitwit.