AAA: Government Mandated 15% Ethanol Blend Damages Engines

[montezumaz]

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/..._says_aaa.html

The AAA says the Environmental Protection Agency and gasoline retailers should halt the sale of E15, a new ethanol blend that could damage millions of vehicles and void car warranties. AAA, which issued its warning today, says just 12 million of more than 240 million cars, trucks and SUVs now in use have manufacturers' approval for E15. Flex-fuel vehicles, 2012 and newer General Motors vehicles, 2013 Fords and 2001 and later model Porsches are the exceptions, according to AAA, the nation's largest motorist group, with 53.5 million members. "It is clear that millions of Americans are unfamiliar with E15, which means there is a strong possibility that many may improperly fill up using this gasoline and damage their vehicle," AAA President and CEO Robert Darbelnet tells USA TODAY. "Bringing E15 to the market without adequate safeguards does not responsibly meet the needs of consumers."
Gasoline blended with 10% ethanol has become standard at most of the nation's 160,000 gas stations, spurred by federal laws and standards designed to use more renewable energy sources and lessen the nation's dependence on foreign oil. Pushed by ethanol producers, the EPA approved the use of E15 ... a 15% ethanol-gasoline blend ... in June over objections from automakers and the oil industry. It's been available at a handful of outlets in Kansas, Iowa and Nebraska since July. EPA stickers affixed to gas station pumps say E15 is safe for use in virtually all vehicles 2001 and newer. (USA TODAY made repeated requests for EPA comment.) But AAA ... in an unusual warning for a travel organization ... says the sale and use of E15 should be stopped until there is more-extensive testing, better pump labels to safeguard consumers and more consumer education about potential hazards. - Rick Moran

[btown]

I have observed over the years , that most of the time when the government tries to solve a problem, the problem gets bigger.

[GunnyGene]

You're going to see more and more of this "save the planet" bs. Especially after the "Sustainability" conference in Dubai this month. EPA is a huge supporter of that agenda, and biofuels are a large part of it. Oil is evil, corn is good.

EPA Sustainability : http://www.epa.gov/sustainability/

Under the Energy Independence and Security Act (EISA) of 2007, the RFS program was expanded in several key ways:

EISA expanded the RFS program to include diesel, in addition to gasoline;
EISA increased the volume of renewable fuel required to be blended into transportation fuel from 9 billion gallons in 2008 to 36 billion gallons by 2022;
EISA established new categories of renewable fuel, and set separate volume requirements for each one.
EISA required EPA to apply lifecycle greenhouse gas performance threshold standards to ensure that each category of renewable fuel emits fewer greenhouse gases than the petroleum fuel it replaces.

Dubai Conference: http://unfccc.int/meetings/doha_nov_...eting/6815.php

[BlackEagle]

Hydrocarbon Processing institute, a professional organisation, search results of their website. The consensus is that 15% ethanol is bad for engines.

http://www.hydrocarbonprocessing.com...ywords=ethanol

...The article emphasising this report. Find a way to ignore the Thiopaq website. Don't know where it comes from but it's a real pain.

http://www.hydrocarbonprocessing.com...nol&PageMove=1

[aa1911]

ethanol is the devil!

supposed to only have up to 10% at most places, an independent study by someone on the east coast found that some stations were selling gas with as high as 27% !!!!

that crap kills engines (unless you have a flex-fuel of course) and drastically reduces power and fuel economy.

My 5vz engine in the late 90's was rated at 19/23mpgs, later in early 2000's, exact same motor and controls/emissons, etc... was 17/21. hmmmm.... it was because of the increase in ethanol me thinks.

now methanol on the other hand, very good for engines! I bought a 55 gallon drum of the stuff to feed my Toyotas, it ups the mpg's incredibly well not to mention develops tons more power. also cleans the engine vs. ethanol gumming up everything.

death to ethanol, it should all be used for drinking, not feeding our engines.

[time2shoot]

ethanol is an oxadizer. Most engine parts, like the heads and some blocks, are aluminum.
oxadiser and aluminum, bad idea.

[BlackEagle]

There are other consequences. See item 3 in this newsletter:
http://news.newsmax.com/?Z6Cv.YSaYzH...vnnJ1RXletJIAZ

[Twicepop]

This shouldn't come as any surprise, every time those blithering idiots decree something it turns into sh**. The only motivation these B.I.s have is the kick back money they receive for mandating that ethanol is to be blended with gasoline. Then out comes the argument that "it reduces our dependence on foreign oil", drilling for our own oil does the same thing, plus it better for the enviroment, and you're not burning a source of food with a government mandated and highly subsidized comodity.

[cpttango30]

I dunno I get 30 to 31 mpg no matter where I get gas. My car has 140k+ on it doesn't burn or leak oil. Doesn't smoke and will run to 100mph as fast as you can mash the peddle to the floor.

[Gun Geezer]

My gut reaction is that politicians have invested heavily in ethanol stock and don't know or care what it's effect will be on cars. As my doctor said when I asked him what he thought about Obamacare. He said that he didn't know all the facts yet, but if the government had any hand in it, it wouldn't work!

[medalguy]

My new Expedition is a flex-fuel car, but I don't run any of that 15% ethanol stuff, and don't see any reason why I should. From all I've read, it has less energy per gallon, so it takes more of it to get the same power out of my truck. So the lower price is a joke because when you figure that you're using more of a less expensive product, the real cost is about the same. And considering the problems that ethanol causes, where's the advantage?

Oh, I forgot, ethanol makes the tree huggers get a warm and fuzzy feeling inside. Well go swallow a chipmunk then. It'll give you the same feelling.

[al45lc]

It's about money, and the corn growers have a very powerful lobby along with the greenies.
It's been hokum from the start, even at 10%.

[aa1911]

Originally Posted by medalguy

My new Expedition is a flex-fuel car, but I don't run any of that 15% ethanol stuff, and don't see any reason why I should. From all I've read, it has less energy per gallon, so it takes more of it to get the same power out of my truck. So the lower price is a joke because when you figure that you're using more of a less expensive product, the real cost is about the same. And considering the problems that ethanol causes, where's the advantage?

Oh, I forgot, ethanol makes the tree huggers get a warm and fuzzy feeling inside. Well go swallow a chipmunk then. It'll give you the same feelling.

Ha! Gonna have to steal that line and use it, freakin' hilarious!!

I'm not worried about saving the planet, it's already screwed. I think it's hilarious that all the crunchies up here are recycling gum wrappers and crap but in the south they still use styrofoam everywhere and have little to no recycling many places. Why don't the seattle crunchies fly down the Georgia or somewhere in the south and make an actual difference?

Or the idiots that drive their smart cars or electric cars with a bumper sticker "save the planet" or whatever. What the hell do you think happened to the gas guzzler you got rid of? it didn't just go away, someone is still driving it! and you're driving a car still, you're not saving the planet.

Whatever makes 'em feel good I guess...

[GunnyGene]

Originally Posted by aa1911

Ha! Gonna have to steal that line and use it, freakin' hilarious!!

I'm not worried about saving the planet, it's already screwed. I think it's hilarious that all the crunchies up here are recycling gum wrappers and crap but in the south they still use styrofoam everywhere and have little to no recycling many places. Why don't the seattle crunchies fly down the Georgia or somewhere in the south and make an actual difference?

Or the idiots that drive their smart cars or electric cars with a bumper sticker "save the planet" or whatever. What the hell do you think happened to the gas guzzler you got rid of? it didn't just go away, someone is still driving it! and you're driving a car still, you're not saving the planet.

Whatever makes 'em feel good I guess...

The planet has gotten along just fine for the past 4.5 billion years. What they are worried about is their own pathetic life, and feeding their ego. They ignore the facts of strip mining and enormous toxic lakes of radioactive sludge that is required to produce those "environmentally friendly" cars and windmills. They are card carrying members of the culture of hypocrisy.

[marlin795]

Originally Posted by time2shoot

ethanol is an oxadizer. Most engine parts, like the heads and some blocks, are aluminum.
oxadiser and aluminum, bad idea.

I have an aluminum V6 in my pickup. I moved from Cali to Oregon for 4 months this year and used their gas, I'm now losing water in the block, have ticking rockers, and lost my 22MPG's to 17. Could 4 months of using it have messed up my engine that quick?

[aa1911]

Originally Posted by marlin795

I have an aluminum V6 in my pickup. I moved from Cali to Oregon for 4 months this year and used their gas, I'm now losing water in the block, have ticking rockers, and lost my 22MPG's to 17. Could 4 months of using it have messed up my engine that quick?

no, not from ethanol in 4 months. What flavor of truck?

If you're getting coolant in there, headgasket is probably failing; is your oil looking like milkshake?

[Sig Willy]

My car is a 2003 Ford Taurus and it has a flex engine so I'm covered but not my weedeater and my lawnmower.

[the morning light]

At first I thought it was a good idea until my MPG went down and I found out it was hard on small engines. I read a while back that a flex fuel car using 85% ethonal gets about 40% less MPG....Not good!

[GunnyGene]

Originally Posted by the morning light

At first I thought it was a good idea until my MPG went down and I found out it was hard on small engines. I read a while back that a flex fuel car using 85% ethonal gets about 40% less MPG....Not good!

Another issue has to do with storage. Many people, myself included, have gas cans they fill up for future use in their vehicles, mowers, etc. especially when the price drops or is expected to rise. Ethanol tends to absorb moisture and gas cans 'breathe', so if you don't use it fairly quickly, it will become water contaminated much faster than gasoline. This is a particular problem in high humidity parts of the country. Sta-bil has a new product out that is specifically formulated for ethanol fuels, but that also adds additional, and unnecessary, cost to our overall fuel bill. http://www.goldeagle.com/brands/stabil/

[zachp]

I work for a Cat dealer and we are going to start seeing some serious effects of this bs soon. They have put a law into effect that mandates that they use some many millions of gallons of ethanol in diesel. This is going to cause all sorts of problems that they dont even know about yet. Gelling in the fuel tanks in the winter, plugging fuel filters and all sorts of crap. On the plus side that does allow me to sell more parts!

[zachp]

Originally Posted by GunnyGene

Another issue has to do with storage. Many people, myself included, have gas cans they fill up for future use in their vehicles, mowers, etc. especially when the price drops or is expected to rise. Ethanol tends to absorb moisture and gas cans 'breathe', so if you don't use it fairly quickly, it will become water contaminated much faster than gasoline. This is a particular problem in high humidity parts of the country. Sta-bil has a new product out that is specifically formulated for ethanol fuels, but that also adds additional, and unnecessary, cost to our overall fuel bill. http://www.goldeagle.com/brands/stabil/

I was having terrible trouble with this and it gumming up the engines. Had a small engine shop tell me to start using high test gas to run in the mower to stop it. It has worked and I am also now a firm believer in Sta-bil, I have gas that has been in the garage for a couple months and still runs like good gas.

[marlin795]

Originally Posted by aa1911

no, not from ethanol in 4 months. What flavor of truck?

If you're getting coolant in there, headgasket is probably failing; is your oil looking like milkshake?

90 Ford Ranger 2.9L V6. No that's what I thought too. But oil is fin. I think it's just going straight out the tailpipe. I just replaced my head gasket's and valve covers. I do know my radiator has a small crack but not big enough at the rate water disappears.

[tango1niner]

Blame Chuck Schumer and Diane Feinstein

[aa1911]

Originally Posted by marlin795

90 Ford Ranger 2.9L V6. No that's what I thought too. But oil is fin. I think it's just going straight out the tailpipe. I just replaced my head gasket's and valve covers. I do know my radiator has a small crack but not big enough at the rate water disappears.

ah, gotcha. a buddy of mine has the same motor in his, messed with 'em a little bit. At least it's a fairly simple engine to work on, seen some engine bays that I wouldn't dare touch anything, too crowded!

Try O2 sensor (pre-cat), something that drastic of a change is from something not working right, not fuel. O2 sensors are frequently ignored, they're really only good for about 75k miles or so. I picked up almost 4mpg's on my old 4runner just by replacing the sensor!

looks like about a $45 part for your truck.

[aa1911]

oh, and stick with Denso for sensor brand, avoid bosch and the other cheapies