Since we kicked God out of schools

[Win73]

I wonder how many school shootings there were before we kicked God out of schools and most other public places compared to how many there have been since?

[BlackEagle]

No idea. They started limiting things like prayer in school in 1963 or so...

[GunnyGene]

Originally Posted by Win73

I wonder how many school shootings there were before we kicked God out of schools and most other public places compared to how many there have been since?

Which god? There are literally hundreds past and present. One that's been in the news of late is Allah. Are you comfortable with Allah in schools, since that's the preference of approx 1.3billion people? And another couple billion people are followers of the dozens of Hindu gods. And please try to avoid rants about the One and Only Christian version.

[johnnyehlers]

Originally Posted by GunnyGene

Which god? There are literally hundreds past and present. One that's been in the news of late is Allah. Are you comfortable with Allah in schools, since that's the preference of approx 1.3billion people? And another couple billion people are followers of the dozens of Hindu gods. And please try to avoid rants about the One and Only Christian version.

I think it's pretty obvious. The ONE we kicked out of the schools, the ONE I prayed to when I was in school, the ONE I still pray to whenever the need comes up where ever I might be standing at the time.

[GunnyGene]

Originally Posted by johnnyehlers

I think it's pretty obvious. The ONE we kicked out of the schools, the ONE I prayed to when I was in school, the ONE I still pray to whenever the need comes up where ever I might be standing at the time.

That's your belief and you are welcome to it. But it's not the belief of over 3-4 billion people on this planet. Are you equating belief in a Christian god to morality?

[johnnyehlers]

Originally Posted by Win73

I wonder how many school shootings there were before we kicked God out of schools and most other public places compared to how many there have been since?

I'm sorry, but when exactly was allah or budda or any of the others you refer to a part of our school system?

[WHSmithIV]

Johnny - what Gunny is saying is that Christians don't have any right to shove their religion down a non-Christians throat and that Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, Muslims or any members of any other religion have no right to shove their religion down a Christians throat. In any given classroom there can be children of other religions also. People of any religion are certainly free to send their kids to schools run by their respective religions - i.e. Lots of Catholics send their kids to Catholic schools. Public schools have a responsibility to teach each and every student regardless of their religion. The only way to deal with that is to leave the teaching of a child's religion to the parents and their respective church. It is NOT the job of the public school to teach your children Christianity - it is YOUR job and the job of your church if you are a Christian. Since when was every public school in our nation exclusively Christian? We have a lot of Jews in our country who go to public schools and they don't believe in Jesus.

[johnnyehlers]

Originally Posted by GunnyGene

That's your belief and you are welcome to it. But it's not the belief of over 3-4 billion people on this planet. Are you equating belief in a Christian god to morality?

I think the whole idea is we need to teach morals in school again, so do you have a problem with teaching the 10 commandments as a moral compass? If so what part? Do you believe that a different spirituality teaches a better way? (I don't believe in religion) If so which one? I'm just trying to understand where your coming from. I understand muslim extremist would rather have allah and the koran taught in our schools, but the point is the God that was taught in school to my Grandparents, my parents and I, has been removed, and while some are trying, I don't remember the God that was removed from the schools being officially replaced by any other.

[GunnyGene]

Originally Posted by WHSmithIV

Johnny - what Gunny is saying is that Christians don't have any right to shove their religion down a non-Christians throat and that Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, Muslims or any members of any other religion have no right to shove their religion down a Christians throat. In any given classroom there can be children of other religions also. People of any religion are certainly free to send their kids to schools run by their respective religions - i.e. Lots of Catholics send their kids to Catholic schools. Public schools have a responsibility to teach each and every student regardless of their religion. The only way to deal with that is to leave the teaching of a child's religion to the parents and their respective church. It is NOT the job of the public school to teach your children Christianity - it is YOUR job and the job of your church if you are a Christian. Since when was every public school in our nation exclusively Christian? We have a lot of Jews in our country who go to public schools and they don't believe in Jesus.

Exactly. Thank you for clarifying that. I would add that I've studied, and participated in, all of the major existing religions extant in the last 50 years. Without exception, they are all to one degree or another, exclusionary of competing belief systems. That is not to say that each and every religion has not had at least some positive influence on human behavior. They have all had positive and negative influences. We can look at history for many examples of both. Nor do I exclude atheism and so called pagan beliefs in the above.

I won't go further than this, since I have no interest in belittling or trying to change anyone's mind in regards to their beliefs, nor is there any possibility of changing my opinions on the subject.

[johnnyehlers]

Originally Posted by WHSmithIV

Johnny - what Gunny is saying is that Christians don't have any right to shove their religion down a non-Christians throat and that Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, Muslims or any members of any other religion have no right to shove their religion down a Christians throat. In any given classroom there can be children of other religions also. People of any religion are certainly free to send their kids to schools run by their respective religions - i.e. Lots of Catholics send their kids to Catholic schools. Public schools have a responsibility to teach each and every student regardless of their religion. The only way to deal with that is to leave the teaching of a child's religion to the parents and their respective church. It is NOT the job of the public school to teach your children Christianity - it is YOUR job and the job of your church if you are a Christian. Since when was every public school in our nation exclusively Christian? We have a lot of Jews in our country who go to public schools and they don't believe in Jesus.

OK, good enough, I guess I'm just old fashioned and believe our schools would be better run by the parents of the school district instead of a government bueracracy.

[GunnyGene]

Originally Posted by johnnyehlers

I think the whole idea is we need to teach morals in school again, so do you have a problem with teaching the 10 commandments as a moral compass? If so what part? Do you believe that a different spirituality teaches a better way? (I don't believe in religion) If so which one? I'm just trying to understand where your coming from. I understand muslim extremist would rather have allah and the koran taught in our schools, but the point is the God that was taught in school to my Grandparents, my parents and I, has been removed, and while some are trying, I don't remember the God that was removed from the schools being officially replaced by any other.

See my answer to WHSmithIV.

[johnnyehlers]

I grew up a Lutheran and went to Lutheran school, but as I said I don't believe in religion. I'm more spiritual now that I've been in A.A. for almost 2 yrs. than I've ever been before. A.A. suggest you turn your will & life over to your higher power, what ever or who ever that might be. As an example I might pick a door knob as my higher power, but if I work the program and it works for me, I begin to realize that it wasn't the door knob that helped me, and I realize that I have done something that I hadn't been able to do on my own, so I begin to realize that a higher power had to be involved. So I guess I do understand where your coming from, you got me to thinking from both sides of the fence, Thanks.

[WHSmithIV]

It's what discussions are for Johnny....

[BlackEagle]

Get back to the original question. In 1950 there was no question about Islam or other religions. Christianity was the only religion in question.

The founding fathers had no interaction with anything other than what the Bible says. When they referred to religion they were talking about the God of the Bible.

In recent years athiests have tried to kick God out of society. Now we are reaping the rewards of a society without any God or any of His standards of right and wrong...in family life, in schools, in government, in banking, in other areas of society, and even in churches.

When people kick God out of society, crime goes up.

[WHSmithIV]

Not so true BlackEagle - God is still very much around. I know several pastors, bishops and other religious people. Families still teach the Bible to their children. So do churches.

The founding fathers certainly did have interaction with religions other than the Bible - the Indians are a case in point right here in America. Later on immigrants from other religions also came here - most coastal cities by the 1880's especially in the west had a Chinatown even.

[johnnyehlers]

I guess I'm lucky to live in a small rural community. In my A.A. group we all believe our higher power is God, and speak freely, unless someone new comes in, then we go back to saying higher power. From what I understand about the schools in the area, God does come up in discussions, and the rule seems to be that the teacher can't bring the subject up or suggest one religion over another, but can help the kids discuss the subject reasonably and from both sides so they can make up their own minds. I'm proud of the fact that kids in my area want to talk about God, and since it's not feasible for everyone to home school (quite a few do) Government needs to be taken out of the equation and let the parents control what is taught. As for stepping on other peoples beliefs or hurting their feeling, I try not to, seems like just good common sense and good morals. I don't have a clue as to the answers in a large district where there is such a big mix of beliefs, but I do believe moral decay is the problem. Life is not fair, we can't always win and our feelings are going to get hurt from time to time, we can choose to wine and complain or we can learn and become stronger. I've learnt that I can't blame anyone but me for my failures I'm the one responsible, I will learn and try my best to do better. This is reminding me of election time, I think with the waste of so many innocent live, we all just want to vent a while. May our higher power (who ever yours is) Bless us, and give us the wisdom to change this world for the better.

[ampaterry]

The earliest public schools, started at the time of the writing of the constitution, were firmly steeped in God - the God of Christians and Jews. Religious writings were used for both reading and writing lessons, since textbooks were extremely rare.
The McGuffy Readers, first created in 1836, quickly became the most used textbook in the school system. They were firmly Christian in nature, and dominated the educational system from their introduction until the mid 20'th century, and continue to be used today in private and home-schooling, still selling 30,000 copies a year.

I would also be interested in finding out how many school shootings happened during this 100+ year period.

[Palmetto]

Originally Posted by johnnyehlers

OK, good enough, I guess I'm just old fashioned and believe our schools would be better run by the parents of the school district instead of a government bueracracy.

I think we Christians are long overdue in taking our kids out of the government schools. They get secular humanism shoved down their throats everyday and many parents just deal with it. It is a God-hostile environment, they aren't even neutral towards people's personal faiths.

I sent my daughter to a Christian school and she got a much better education without all the PC crap that goes with secular government schools today. I don't regret it for a second.

[Palmetto]

Originally Posted by ampaterry

The earliest public schools, started at the time of the writing of the constitution, were firmly steeped in God - the God of Christians and Jews. Religious writings were used for both reading and writing lessons, since textbooks were extremely rare.
The McGuffy Readers, first created in 1836, quickly became the most used textbook in the school system. They were firmly Christian in nature, and dominated the educational system from their introduction until the mid 20'th century, and continue to be used today in private and home-schooling, still selling 30,000 copies a year.

I would also be interested in finding out how many school shootings happened during this 100+ year period.

Our first act of the Continental Congress was to print bibles.

[Palmetto]

Originally Posted by WHSmithIV

Not so true BlackEagle - God is still very much around. I know several pastors, bishops and other religious people. Families still teach the Bible to their children. So do churches.

The founding fathers certainly did have interaction with religions other than the Bible - the Indians are a case in point right here in America. Later on immigrants from other religions also came here - most coastal cities by the 1880's especially in the west had a Chinatown even.

Thomas Jefferson and the founders were dealing with large Muslim pirate menace... The " to the Halls of Tripoly" in the US Marine song relates to this...

[45Auto]

Dear Win73,

It's impossible to kick God out of our schools.
God exists in the hearts and souls of people not buildings. As soon as a person enters that building God is with them.

The above concept is understood on a gut level by people with a close personal relationship with God. Your personal relationship with God is a quiet thing, to be shared by doing good things, love of your fellow man, and so forth.

Those seeking a political relationship with the church are uninterested in a deep personal relationship with god. The political people speak not of God's goodness but of division. Not the 'Good News' but the hollow "talking point."

You can rest assured that God is in every school, He is in jail cells, He is out walking the cold hills of Afganistan. That's why people say, "God be with you."

[mikld]

Originally Posted by GunnyGene

Which god? There are literally hundreds past and present. One that's been in the news of late is Allah. Are you comfortable with Allah in schools, since that's the preference of approx 1.3billion people? And another couple billion people are followers of the dozens of Hindu gods. And please try to avoid rants about the One and Only Christian version.

Just itchin' fer a fight/arguement, aren't ya. You know very well which God he's talking about; The God of Jacob, Abraham, and Isaac. The God whose laws and teachings this country ,USA, is founded on. Not a rant, just a reply. Did you know that the Arabs and Jews were originated by brothers, sons of Abraham? So, there is only one God...

[BangStick]

Long before this recent school shooting I had wondered just how many (or fewer) school shootings there were.

It got me thinking. In general, a school age kid without Christian education in this day & age is volnerable the enemys influencs. In other words is unarmed!

Agression (in regards to kids here), is a mask that is worn by people to hide fear & angziety. Fear is a very powerful emotion and if not kept in check, ...well... you all read the papers and watched the news.

Best way to overcome fear is education. ...and I don't mean writting & arithmatic either! Its getting good with God and learning the Bible and undersatanding it as best we can.

Its the responsibility of every parent to expose out children to Christianity so they have the proper tools and EDUCATION to make an INFORMED dessision to have a personel relationship with Christ once they are of proper mind or age.

Bottom line is, its not the life on earth that we should worry about, its the eternity once we pass from this life. The choices we make now will determin what happens to us afterwards.

Here's a hint...Choose Christ!!! wink wink!!!

***

In a nut shell, The price of sin is death so we are screwed from birth! God gave his son Jesus Christ to the world and whoever believes on him shall not parish, (you won't go to hell, lake of fire, pergatory...etc). You just have to set your pride aside and accept the fact that Christ sacrificed his own life for us (Just as a parent would for thier children) so that whoever believes on him will have eternal life.

But... there is a catch here.

A gift is only a gift "IF" it is accepted! If Gods gift to mankind (Christ) is not accepted and you do not accept Him into you life, you will not get to heaven in the end. It's only through Christ that we may enter heaven...there is no other way.

The biggest problem we as humans face is our own PRIDE!
Think about it this way, whats common with PRIDE & SIN???
The letter "I"!!!

Give that some thought don't let your pride stop you from learning Gods Truth.

[nightwalker]

Praise be to the one true God. He is real. I know it. That's all for me. Happy new year!

[BulletArc47]

Originally Posted by GunnyGene

That's your belief and you are welcome to it. But it's not the belief of over 3-4 billion people on this planet. Are you equating belief in a Christian god to morality?

Here, Here Gunny; I totally agree!

Now my humble opinion:

A child's faith should be taught at home;not schools, and lack of prayer, or God in schools is not the reason for these violent trends. It is my belief that many children lack, above all else: discipline, respect, and integrity. Those most basic foundations of ethics are not being taught by parents, or schools. Those values are not instilled during their youth, so when they reach their early adulthood they're wild and unset; this weak foundation will continue until they die.

There is a place for faith; just not in school, and I think an individuals faith should be respected, but not just Christianity; all of them.