Jukar Rifle in .45 Parts?

[ShawnDow]

Howdy all,
I just came across a Jukar Spain .45 cal Black Powder Rifle... It's a kit rifle... some what completed, And I was looking to do it up right.
First and foremost... I need a couple of (I hope) simple parts. Im looking for the brass barrels that hold the ram rod.. some how I don't think its suppose to span 18-24 inches unsupported!
Second, If I try to make this "1800's" (I know the rifles are 1960-1980's) correct.. I presume a rust "brown or plumb" barrel... not hot tanked blue?

I see that these have little value in the real world, but I always thought it would be fun to make (or re-make) one of these muzzle loaders. Am I going to drive myself into a money pit trying to find the couple of parts that I need?

Thanks for your input guys.
Shawn

[Buffalochip]

The barrels you describe are called "ferrules." Try Dixiegunworks.com. Barrel should be brown or plumb, as you describe. You may also be missing the underrib. If you have the lock, stock, and barrel, the missing parts shouldn't set you back too much.

[ShawnDow]

under rib??? is that like a muffler bearing? Im new to these muzzle loaders.. what is an under rib? I did notice 2 dove tail slots under the barrel and recesses cut into the fore stock (its a 2 piece stock) at the afore mentioned dove tails and nothing in the dove tail slots.
Ill check out the dixi gun works... thanks for the lead. Oh and I do have the Lock, stock, and barrel....
Thanks for the help guys,
Shawn

[Hawg]

Originally Posted by ShawnDow

under rib??? is that like a muffler bearing? Im new to these muzzle loaders.. what is an under rib? I did notice 2 dove tail slots under the barrel and recesses cut into the fore stock (its a 2 piece stock) at the afore mentioned dove tails and nothing in the dove tail slots.
Ill check out the dixi gun works... thanks for the lead. Oh and I do have the Lock, stock, and barrel....
Thanks for the help guys,
Shawn

An under rib is a squarish piece of metal running under the barrels down to the stock. It basically keeps the ramrod away from the barrels making it easier to access. Those recesses should be cut all the way thru and have brass plates over the holes for the barrel keys that hold the barrel to the stock. The dove tails should have the tenon the keys go through.

[ShawnDow]

Boy... I'm slow when it comes to these BP guns.. Ill take pictures of everything I have ... assembled and apart... then y'all can tell me whats missing... I think, I'm not the first guy to have played with this kit... and I'm sure stuff is missing... If I can make simple parts, I'll do so.. but if its structural or a primary (needs to be safe) part.. Ill order it.
Again, thanks for the input.
Shawn.

[ShawnDow]

Ok... I got some pics of the lock, stock, and barrel! Now I know a few of you are going to tell me that the main spring is off of the sear... I did this to get the hammer off to re "brown" it. I also cleaned the lock plate off. The insides are all gummy with saw dust and old dry oil... the hammer will only lock at the half cocked position, its that dirty. The Flitz cleaned off the "color case hardening" look.. oops!
Any way... the purpose of the pics is for you guys to tell me what this CVA Jukar rifle is missing... I know I don't have the Furrels (barrels) for the ram rod..I am going to turn some from solid brass on my lathe. I just need to know if there is something missing that holds them in place.. Or do I attach them straight to the stock?
Now.. the stock is still in its natural wood state.. How was the wood treated back in the day? Oiled, stained, waxed? What's the secret? I am also redoing the barrel... I steel wooled the critter off, cleaning the heavy rust off... and want to re-rust (blue) brown the barrel. How do I get the percussion cap "thinggy" out of the side of the barrel? I'd assume its threaded into the barrel. I just don't want to force it and bugger this project!

[Buffalochip]

OK--I'm 95% sure what you have is the CVA Kentucky Long Rifle in .45 cal. You're in luck--this one didn't have an under-rib but had the ferruls (aka thimbles) attached directly to the bottom of the forestock. I suppose, because they were cheaper to make, the stocks are in two pieces joined at a brass plate.

Google "CVA Kentucky Long Rifle kit" and you'll find all kinds of examples. One thing you will immediately notice is that your front sight is a$$ backwards. I think all that you are missing are some screws, the ferrules and rear sight. Not sure how the barrels attached. if that dovetail you show is on the bottom of the barrel, and was not meant for the rear sight, then there is a plate that attaches there through which a key or metal pin is used to hold the barrel. I'm not explaining that too well, but you'll figure it out.

[BillM]

Trying to remember---I think the barrel on those might have had a
tab on the bottom that got crossdrilled for a pin? No wedges or
anything fancy, these were a low budget affair. The one thing I
DO remember about mine---the wood was as hard as a rock!
Finish inletting and stock shaping/finishing took forever.

[ShawnDow]

Buffalochip.. I took the sights off! Ill try to remember to turn the front one around on re-assembly! And I do have the screws to re-assemble (less the screws for the ferrules)
Whats the best way (or product to use) to get an authentic rust "blue" brown? And would I do that with or without the sights in place?

BillM the wood is hard... but the previous person did all the prep work! I just need to clean and preserve it.. what to use though?.. linseed oil? stain it? Id like it to look a bit old and worn if possible... but well protected.
Now.. is there a way to straighten the ram rod? I have seen rope thrown on the ground that laid straighter than this thing!
Oh, and thanks for the input guys!
Shawn

[WHSmithIV]

Let us know when you fire it!

[Shooter45]

Lowe's sells hard wood dowel rods that would work but not sure that they have Hickory, which is what I recommend.

www.trackofthewolf.com will have everything you need including the ramrod.

[Hawg]

The two piece stock was made so the kit would fit a smaller box. I wouldn't use Lowes dowel for a ramrod. Get a hickory rod from Dixie or TOW. The barrel was held to the stock with cross pins. Laurel Mountain Forge makes a plum brown slow rust solution but it takes several applications over several days to do it.

[ShawnDow]

Question in regards to doing wood work on old muzzle loaders (actually a replica kit). How were the stocks on the old muzzle loaders prepared for their life of use? What did they do for "staining", sealing, and wood preservation?

If some one would be so kind as to enlighten me to the steps of "staining", sealing, and preserving the stock like they did back in the day and the types of "chemicals" used, Id be eternally grateful (that wont be too long according to the Mayan's).

Thanks,
Shawn

[GunnyGene]

Up until the early 1900's the usual finish was various natural oils. Linseed, walnut, tung, etc. , which required repeated and frequent applications. Natural oils don't provide much protection from the elements. High end woodwork was often "french polish", which is a technique involving shellac and olive or other oils. I'd suggest getting a copy of "Understanding Wood Finishing" by Bob Flexner.

[Shooter45]

After the final sanding, take a damp cloth and rub over the stock to raise the grain. Then rub with 000000 steel wool. Almost any stain will work but I've made my own using Walnut hulls for a Walnut stock. Track of the Wolf has about any stain you would want for muzzleloading firearms.
For preserving and sealing the wood use boiled Linseed oil and rub it on by hand. It takes a long time to get a good finish. Dip your finger into the container, smear it on and start rubbing.

I must have hand rubbed 30 coats on my last one but it sure looked nice when it was finished.

Or, you can cheat and use Birchwood Casey Tru-Oil.

[Buffalochip]

While in high school, I worked for the former curator of the Natural History Museum in Washington, DC. He taught me to use linseed oil--rub some on, wipe off the excess, let stand for 24 hours and repeat until the wood will no longer absorb the oil. Then seal with bees wax.

[Shooter45]

BC. that method lets the oil dry on top of the wood and would be OK for a museum piece.

The old way was to apply the oil, then start rubbing. It's not easy and it's time consuming but it will be there and protect the wood.

On my last build, I sat for hours rubbing oil into the stock.

[ShawnDow]

would you stain with color first, or does the boiled linseed oil or tung oil add the color? Im working the 70's CVA / Jukar B/P on a previous thread... (for my boss), and I'm (he) am after a so called "period correct" color and finish. I think he just needs to buy an antique and be happy with that.
But I enjoy doing this and learning so...

Would the Laurel Mountain Forge stain, sealing, and finish get me close enough to a period correct final finish? Or do I do it right, and fondle and rub the stock with linseed oil for days and weeks on end?

[Shooter45]

Check these out.

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/List/Item.aspx/392/1

[Buffalochip]

Originally Posted by Shooter45

BC. that method lets the oil dry on top of the wood and would be OK for a museum piece.

The old way was to apply the oil, then start rubbing. It's not easy and it's time consuming but it will be there and protect the wood.

On my last build, I sat for hours rubbing oil into the stock.

Actually, I left one step out. You take the linseed oil can, remove the cap and then stand it up in a pan with 2-3 inches of water and then warm it on the stove. Once the oil was hot to the touch, you slater it on the wood and the heated oil will open up the pours of the wood. Rub it in, wipe off the excess and then repeat.

[Shooter45]

I understand.

I've just always done it like the gunmakers 200 years ago.

Here's a picture of my Tn Mountain Rifle with a hand rubbed finish.

[ShawnDow]

were the stock that red back in the day? And will the grain pull the darker hews out? That looks nice. Hope I can replicate some thing like that.

[Shooter45]

It's actually brown but the sun was hitting the rifle and it was in the shade. The grain will show up darker when stained. The stain on my rifle is called Aquafortis and it's used on a lot of curly Maple stocks.

Have you decided what kind of kit you are buying ??

[ShawnDow]

If I took a close up picture of the stock in its natural state showing the grain.. can you tell me the type of wood? My boss is wanting a cherry stain... I put a small dab in the barrel channel.. kinda looks like blood! Id hate to think Ill have something looking like a stop sign!

[Shooter45]

That looks like Birch.

I had one of those guns a long time ago and as I recall, it had a Cherry finish. Remember, if you put the stain on too heavy, you can lighten it up by rubbing with steel wool.