Your Reason(s) for Disliking Anti-Gunners? - Page 3 - The Firearms Forum

howlnmad · 12-11-2012, 06:42 PM

Because of their ignorance and refusal to even look at facts.

firefighter1635 · 12-11-2012, 07:28 PM

Deleted, i'll stay away too.

sub-moa · 12-12-2012, 12:34 AM

The only thing good about a left side is to steady my right while I aim.

B27 · 12-12-2012, 03:05 AM

I don't like them because they will get me killed.

AnomDeGuerre · 12-12-2012, 08:53 AM

whether you agree with gun control or not, here is an interesting lesson in recent history. something to think about...

in 1929, the soviet union established gun control. from 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

------------------------------

in 1911, turkey established gun control. from 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

------------------------------

germany established gun control in 1938 on top of existing weimar republic gun control laws (ironically passed to control nazis...) and from 1939 to 1945, a total of 13 million jews and others who were unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.

------------------------------

china established gun control in 1935. from 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

------------------------------

guatemala established gun control in 1964. from 1964 to 1981, 100,000 mayan indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

------------------------------

uganda established gun control in 1970. from 1971 to 1979, 300,000 christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

------------------------------

cambodia established gun control in 1956. from 1975 to 1977, one million 'educated' people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

-----------------------------

defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th century because of gun control: 56 million.

------------------------------
so it might be said that guns don't kill people, gun control does!

it has now been over 12 months since gun owners in australia were forced by new law to surrender 640,381 personal firearms to be destroyed by their own government, a program costing australia taxpayers more than $500 million dollars.

the first year results are now in: australia-wide, homicides are up 3.2 percent australia-wide, assaults are up 8.6 percent. australia-wide, armed robberies are up 44 percent (yes, 44 percent)!

in the state of victoria alone, homicides with firearms are now up 300 percent. note that while the law-abiding citizens turned them in, the criminals did not, and criminals still possess their guns! while figures over the previous 25 years showed a steady decrease in armed robbery with firearms, this has changed drastically upward in the past 12 months, since criminals now are guaranteed that their prey is unarmed.

there has also been a dramatic increase in break-ins and assaults of the ELDERLY. australian politicians are at a loss to explain how public safety has decreased, after such monumental effort and expense was expended in successfully ridding australian society of guns. the australian experience and the other historical facts above prove it.

you won't see this data on the american evening news or hear our president, governors or other politicians or even bob costas disseminating this information.

guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes, gun-control laws affect only the law-abiding citizens. the next time someone talks in favor of gun control, please remind them of this history lesson.

with guns, we are 'citizens'. without them, we are 'subjects'. we here in america have the second amendment (thank god, whatever god you believe in) "the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed" gun control, for our safety and the safety of the children, is the cry of those that would forfeit our god (whatever god you believe in) given right to self defense! remember the 56 million who died for lack of guns to defend themselves.

i don't know who to give credit to for this history lesson... if i did, i would.

tcox4freedom · 12-12-2012, 09:11 AM

^^^I think I like this guy.^^^

sub-moa · 12-13-2012, 12:14 AM

Sure liked the message.

12-13-2012, 02:20 AM

There's nothing like a little post hoc, ergo propter hoc fallacious cause and effect "analysis" to "prove" a point to those who are already primed to take it at face value.

AnomDeGuerre · 12-13-2012, 03:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nosreme

There's nothing like a little post hoc, ergo propter hoc fallacious cause and effect "analysis" to "prove" a point to those who are already primed to take it at face value.

LOL! seeing as how "proof" really only applies to mathematics and liquor... one could argue causality all day long...

edited to add: that being said... no "cause and effect" was stated by me, just facts. if you want to dispute any of the facts i posted, please present your case... cogently. until then, i'll dismiss your comment as pretentious.

"Laws control the lesser man... Right conduct controls the greater one. " -- Mark Twain

sub-moa · 12-13-2012, 06:28 AM

You can't argue logic or make sense with those who have neither. All we can hope to do are sway a few with facts and irrefutable statistics.

always_learning · 12-13-2012, 08:05 AM

I fear irrational people, regardless of their beliefs, more than any man with a gun. An irrational mind is a destructive weapon.

If an irrational person has a gun that makes him slightly more dangerous.

Double D · 12-13-2012, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nosreme

There's nothing like a little post hoc, ergo propter hoc fallacious cause and effect "analysis" to "prove" a point to those who are already primed to take it at face value.

Always an empty quiver...

sub-moa · 12-13-2012, 08:34 AM

My experience tells me most here on TFF don't take ANYTHING @ face value. We will supply proof in the form of a link to a reputable source or viable statics from a reliable source. In any case most here are to smart to spew unsubstantiated information or statistics, else we would appear to be liberals.

always_learning · 12-13-2012, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sub-moa

In any case most here are to smart to spew unsubstantiated information or statistics, else we would appear to be liberals.

Blanket statements regarding any segment of society (liberals) would be an example of your point?

sub-moa · 12-13-2012, 10:23 AM

Not a blanket statement-Since you are here you can easily find examples of misleading statements, incorrect statistics and outright lies forced on Americans every day by Liberals and their media. If you don't agree your in the wrong forum.

always_learning · 12-13-2012, 01:06 PM

It's a ride on a Merry-Go-Round of deceit by not only Liberals but anyone with something to gain. I hear it from the other side too and both sides are full of it past their eye brows.

Sadly, I believe it's become a big children's game of Red State-Blue State Who Do You Hate?

Damn few ordinary people know politicians personally, yet after listening to Fox News or MSNBC or whatever talking head is the flavor of the day they feel like they know what is truly going on. Just choose up a side and go for it. Hey, I heard this on the radio ... Gosh, it must be true then ... duh!

Personally, not a one of them has built a mountain that I'm prepared to hang a shingle on and die for. Sell-out artists, the lot of them.

Citizen, I grew up in The United States of America .. which is ever increasingly becoming the Polarized States of Corporate America.

... and like you, I'll keep my guns Thank You very much!

TerryJ · 12-13-2012, 02:52 PM

The problem isn't gun control, the problem is a breakdown of our social fabric, when no-one is allowed to fail then everyone suffers. So it's not guns that kill, it goes much deeper than that and it is something that people do not want to address, as a country as a whole we have had a major breakdown in our values and our morals all pushed by a socialist agenda and they refuse to even look at the problem. When we have a couple of generations raised with the concept of no responsibility for their action, because we can blame something else, this is what you get. So it wasn't the actions of the person that did the killing, it was the fracken gun that killed him. Just how out of touch is this!!!!!

always_learning · 12-13-2012, 04:05 PM

Hello Terry,

Another example of Special Interest ... The Trial Lawyers. It's a HUGE Industry, like medicine.

Blame it on everyone else and no one is held accountable. Works for Wall Street thieves too!

Prizefighter · 12-13-2012, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nosreme

There's nothing like a little post hoc, ergo propter hoc fallacious cause and effect "analysis" to "prove" a point to those who are already primed to take it at face value.

You mean like this?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Costas

If Jovan Belcher didn’t possess a gun, he and Kasandra Perkins would both be alive today.

Perhaps gun control doesn't cause mass subjugation and extermination. Just like gasoline alone doesn't start a fire. But it sure makes it easier to burn.

12-13-2012, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by always_learning

Hello Terry,

Another example of Special Interest ... The Trial Lawyers. It's a HUGE Industry, like medicine...

I'm a lawyer and agree. But just as it takes two to tango, it takes a both greedy client and an overreaching lawyer enamored of the contingency fee system working together to make this insanity happen.

WHSmithIV · 12-13-2012, 08:54 PM

one reason and one reason only - they are idiots. Nothing else needs be said.

jedwil · 12-13-2012, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WHSmithIV

one reason and one reason only - they are idiots. Nothing else needs be said.

Yes....Idiots............

Redhand · 12-14-2012, 08:48 AM

And this is all I'm going to say about that" If I'm ever a victim of a crazy person who chooses to kill innocent people and then they off themselves because they are too wimpy to face the consequences,spare me the candles,flowers and teddy bears. I want all of my spent cartridges that I fired to protect myself and my loved ones piled up as a memorial to me( a victim-less hero).

always_learning · 12-14-2012, 12:17 PM

Another tragedy. What in hell is this world coming to? Children.

Dear God, my heart aches for those people. Please have mercy on them.

What is the answer to stop all of this?

firefighter1635 · 12-14-2012, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by always_learning

Another tragedy. What in hell is this world coming to? Children.

Dear God, my heart aches for those people. Please have mercy on them.

What is the answer to stop all of this?

I don't think there is an answer. You can't stop someone that has no criminal history, no mental health history and want's to get firearms to go on mass shooting sprees.

12-11-2012, 06:42 PM	#51
howlnmad Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Harriman, Tn Contributor Posts: 2,565	Re: Your Reason(s) for Disliking Anti-Gunners? Because of their ignorance and refusal to even look at facts. __________________ Last edited by howlnmad; 12-11-2012 at 06:57 PM..

12-11-2012, 07:28 PM	#52
firefighter1635 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: US of A Contributor Posts: 1,837	Re: Your Reason(s) for Disliking Anti-Gunners? Deleted, i'll stay away too. __________________ "The strongest reason for people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." - Thomas Jefferson "The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms." - Samuel Adams Last edited by firefighter1635; 12-11-2012 at 07:32 PM..

12-12-2012, 12:34 AM	#53
sub-moa V.I.P. Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Kentucky Posts: 395	Re: Your Reason(s) for Disliking Anti-Gunners? The only thing good about a left side is to steady my right while I aim. __________________ "America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln

12-12-2012, 03:05 AM	#54
B27 V.I.P. Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 415	Re: Your Reason(s) for Disliking Anti-Gunners? I don't like them because they will get me killed. __________________ "Do not stand beside the road and argue with a fool...lest others in passing take you also for a fool."

12-12-2012, 08:53 AM	#55
AnomDeGuerre Former Guest Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 43	Re: Your Reason(s) for Disliking Anti-Gunners? whether you agree with gun control or not, here is an interesting lesson in recent history. something to think about... in 1929, the soviet union established gun control. from 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated. ------------------------------ in 1911, turkey established gun control. from 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated. ------------------------------ germany established gun control in 1938 on top of existing weimar republic gun control laws (ironically passed to control nazis...) and from 1939 to 1945, a total of 13 million jews and others who were unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated. ------------------------------ china established gun control in 1935. from 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated. ------------------------------ guatemala established gun control in 1964. from 1964 to 1981, 100,000 mayan indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated. ------------------------------ uganda established gun control in 1970. from 1971 to 1979, 300,000 christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated. ------------------------------ cambodia established gun control in 1956. from 1975 to 1977, one million 'educated' people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated. ----------------------------- defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th century because of gun control: 56 million. ------------------------------ so it might be said that guns don't kill people, gun control does! it has now been over 12 months since gun owners in australia were forced by new law to surrender 640,381 personal firearms to be destroyed by their own government, a program costing australia taxpayers more than $500 million dollars. the first year results are now in: australia-wide, homicides are up 3.2 percent australia-wide, assaults are up 8.6 percent. australia-wide, armed robberies are up 44 percent (yes, 44 percent)! in the state of victoria alone, homicides with firearms are now up 300 percent. note that while the law-abiding citizens turned them in, the criminals did not, and criminals still possess their guns! while figures over the previous 25 years showed a steady decrease in armed robbery with firearms, this has changed drastically upward in the past 12 months, since criminals now are guaranteed that their prey is unarmed. there has also been a dramatic increase in break-ins and assaults of the ELDERLY. australian politicians are at a loss to explain how public safety has decreased, after such monumental effort and expense was expended in successfully ridding australian society of guns. the australian experience and the other historical facts above prove it. you won't see this data on the american evening news or hear our president, governors or other politicians or even bob costas disseminating this information. guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes, gun-control laws affect only the law-abiding citizens. the next time someone talks in favor of gun control, please remind them of this history lesson. with guns, we are 'citizens'. without them, we are 'subjects'. we here in america have the second amendment (thank god, whatever god you believe in) "the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed" gun control, for our safety and the safety of the children, is the cry of those that would forfeit our god (whatever god you believe in) given right to self defense! remember the 56 million who died for lack of guns to defend themselves. i don't know who to give credit to for this history lesson... if i did, i would.

12-12-2012, 09:11 AM	#56
tcox4freedom Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: South Carolina USA Posts: 938	Re: Your Reason(s) for Disliking Anti-Gunners? ^^^I think I like this guy.^^^

12-13-2012, 12:14 AM	#57
sub-moa V.I.P. Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Kentucky Posts: 395	Re: Your Reason(s) for Disliking Anti-Gunners? Sure liked the message. __________________ "America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln

12-13-2012, 02:20 AM	#58
nosreme Adnanced Senior Member Posts: n/a	Re: Your Reason(s) for Disliking Anti-Gunners? There's nothing like a little post hoc, ergo propter hoc fallacious cause and effect "analysis" to "prove" a point to those who are already primed to take it at face value.

12-13-2012, 06:28 AM	#60
sub-moa V.I.P. Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Kentucky Posts: 395	Re: Your Reason(s) for Disliking Anti-Gunners? You can't argue logic or make sense with those who have neither. All we can hope to do are sway a few with facts and irrefutable statistics. __________________ "America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln

12-13-2012, 08:05 AM	#61
always_learning Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: The Wolverine State Posts: 28	Re: Your Reason(s) for Disliking Anti-Gunners? I fear irrational people, regardless of their beliefs, more than any man with a gun. An irrational mind is a destructive weapon. If an irrational person has a gun that makes him slightly more dangerous.

12-13-2012, 08:34 AM	#63
sub-moa V.I.P. Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Kentucky Posts: 395	Re: Your Reason(s) for Disliking Anti-Gunners? My experience tells me most here on TFF don't take ANYTHING @ face value. We will supply proof in the form of a link to a reputable source or viable statics from a reliable source. In any case most here are to smart to spew unsubstantiated information or statistics, else we would appear to be liberals. __________________ "America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln

12-13-2012, 10:23 AM	#65
sub-moa V.I.P. Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Kentucky Posts: 395	Re: Your Reason(s) for Disliking Anti-Gunners? Not a blanket statement-Since you are here you can easily find examples of misleading statements, incorrect statistics and outright lies forced on Americans every day by Liberals and their media. If you don't agree your in the wrong forum. __________________ "America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln

12-13-2012, 01:06 PM	#66
always_learning Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: The Wolverine State Posts: 28	Re: Your Reason(s) for Disliking Anti-Gunners? It's a ride on a Merry-Go-Round of deceit by not only Liberals but anyone with something to gain. I hear it from the other side too and both sides are full of it past their eye brows. Sadly, I believe it's become a big children's game of Red State-Blue State Who Do You Hate? Damn few ordinary people know politicians personally, yet after listening to Fox News or MSNBC or whatever talking head is the flavor of the day they feel like they know what is truly going on. Just choose up a side and go for it. Hey, I heard this on the radio ... Gosh, it must be true then ... duh! Personally, not a one of them has built a mountain that I'm prepared to hang a shingle on and die for. Sell-out artists, the lot of them. Citizen, I grew up in The United States of America .. which is ever increasingly becoming the Polarized States of Corporate America. ... and like you, I'll keep my guns Thank You very much!

12-13-2012, 02:52 PM	#67
TerryJ Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 7	Re: Your Reason(s) for Disliking Anti-Gunners? The problem isn't gun control, the problem is a breakdown of our social fabric, when no-one is allowed to fail then everyone suffers. So it's not guns that kill, it goes much deeper than that and it is something that people do not want to address, as a country as a whole we have had a major breakdown in our values and our morals all pushed by a socialist agenda and they refuse to even look at the problem. When we have a couple of generations raised with the concept of no responsibility for their action, because we can blame something else, this is what you get. So it wasn't the actions of the person that did the killing, it was the fracken gun that killed him. Just how out of touch is this!!!!! __________________ Terry Vietnam Veteran 68-70 9th ID. Member of MOPH (Military order of the Purple Heart) The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.~~Thomas Jefferson

12-13-2012, 04:05 PM	#68
always_learning Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: The Wolverine State Posts: 28	Re: Your Reason(s) for Disliking Anti-Gunners? Hello Terry, Another example of Special Interest ... The Trial Lawyers. It's a HUGE Industry, like medicine. Blame it on everyone else and no one is held accountable. Works for Wall Street thieves too! __________________ The Freedom of Speech May Be Taken Away, and, Dumb and Silent, We May Be Led Like Sheep To the Slaughter ~ George Washington

12-13-2012, 08:54 PM	#71
WHSmithIV Advanced Senior Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: Moore, Idaho contributor Posts: 2,605	Re: Your Reason(s) for Disliking Anti-Gunners? one reason and one reason only - they are idiots. Nothing else needs be said.

12-14-2012, 08:48 AM	#73
Redhand Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 605	Re: Your Reason(s) for Disliking Anti-Gunners? And this is all I'm going to say about that" If I'm ever a victim of a crazy person who chooses to kill innocent people and then they off themselves because they are too wimpy to face the consequences,spare me the candles,flowers and teddy bears. I want all of my spent cartridges that I fired to protect myself and my loved ones piled up as a memorial to me( a victim-less hero). __________________ LAMH DERG EIRIN ABU

12-14-2012, 12:17 PM	#74
always_learning Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: The Wolverine State Posts: 28	Re: Your Reason(s) for Disliking Anti-Gunners? Another tragedy. What in hell is this world coming to? Children. Dear God, my heart aches for those people. Please have mercy on them. What is the answer to stop all of this? __________________ The Freedom of Speech May Be Taken Away, and, Dumb and Silent, We May Be Led Like Sheep To the Slaughter ~ George Washington Last edited by always_learning; 12-14-2012 at 01:29 PM.. Reason: Dumbfounded and disbelief