old shotgun ??? - The Firearms Forum

wv hillbilly · 12-05-2012, 07:54 AM

a guy brought this in my shop yesterday and wanted som information on it.
i looked through every book i had and found nothing
i would apreciate any information you can give

Alpo · 12-05-2012, 08:30 AM

You couldn't find anything in your books about L. C. Smith?

http://www.lcsmith.org/

wv hillbilly · 12-05-2012, 08:49 AM

last time i went to school that first letter was eye or roman numeral one. this is a L

Jim K · 12-05-2012, 02:49 PM

Well, it is an L and L.C. Smith shotguns are well known and documented.

Note that the barrels are Damascus ("twist") and IMHO should be admired and not fired, and certainly not fired with smokeless powder loads. Some experts claim that well-made Damascus barrels (and L.C. Smith barrels are of high quality) can be safely fired with even modern Magnum loads. Others, some with missing fingers, would disagree.

Jim

whirley · 12-05-2012, 03:47 PM

There should be additional markings on the bottom of the barrels or on the flats of the receiver. I believe that part is called the water table??? I'm not sure about that designation. L.C. Smith made quality shotguns. Some barrels were finished to look like damascus barrels, but were marked "fluid steel"A nice looking wall hanger in my opinion with todays smokeless powders.

wv hillbilly · 12-05-2012, 04:21 PM

these markings were found when you remove the barrel from the reciever
DM4R2983
LY13.86
C? maybe T 5.86
in that order

lead · 12-05-2012, 06:59 PM

I don't know about this one. I was looking at others on ********* and the type of the letters is different then on your gun.
Is there any kind of crown mark on the bottom of the barrels? Belguim made many copies of popular guns. I wish I still had mine but I had to let it go a few years ago and never have been able to get another.

RJay · 12-05-2012, 07:14 PM

I zoomed up several pictures of LC Smith shotguns, then yours, back and forth, I think it is a broken L and it is a L.C. Smith. The engraving and contours pretty much match.

Have to admit my first thoughts were Belgium, but I'm now convinced it it a "Elsie".

wv hillbilly · 12-05-2012, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lead

I don't know about this one. I was looking at others on ********* and the type of the letters is different then on your gun.
Is there any kind of crown mark on the bottom of the barrels? Belguim made many copies of popular guns. I wish I still had mine but I had to let it go a few years ago and never have been able to get another.

the only markings is what i already posted.
i went over that thing with a magnifying glass, as you can see in the first picture
anyone have a rough value. the fore arm is cracked along with the stock.
personally i would rate the gun at about 40-50%

Anchor Clanker · 12-06-2012, 01:47 AM

None of those numbers match serial numbers given in my reference. Are you sure you have read them and posted them correctly? Hammerless damascus barrel shotguns were made in two groups from 1884 to 1886 and 1886 to 1890. We caution shooter to be careful about shooting old damascus barreled shotguns for several reasons.We can't see the gun to determine its condition, the barrels may have rust pits almost all the way through the barrel walls. These old guns were used hard and received little maintenance and care. There are cheap made guns out there that were unsafe to shoot using almost any ammunition. Usually these are inexpensive poorly made Belgian made guns made back in the early 20th century often referred to a Just Another Belgian Clunker (JABC). Damascus barreled guns were not designed or made for modern ammunition loaded with high pressure smokeless powder, steel shot or slugs. Given the American propensity for wanting more powerful ammunition somewhere, sometime, some damn fool is going to stuff a 3 inch magnum in one of these old guns (it can be done), cock the hammers and pull the trigger. If when various pieces take off for parts unknown and if he is still standing, has the normal number of fingers and eyes, we don't want him coming back to us and say "You didn't tell me that wasn't safe!"

wv hillbilly · 12-06-2012, 05:55 AM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

None of those numbers match serial numbers given in my reference

that was my point when i posted a picture of the gun.
i looked through all the LC SMITH information i had and came to the same conclusion you did

Buffalochip · 12-06-2012, 12:21 PM

Looking at the engraving--not very well executed, I suspect it has a heritage similar to my W. Richards...JABC.

12-05-2012, 07:54 AM	#1
wv hillbilly Advanced Senior Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: mountains of wv. Posts: 2,016	old shotgun ??? a guy brought this in my shop yesterday and wanted som information on it. i looked through every book i had and found nothing i would apreciate any information you can give -->

12-05-2012, 08:30 AM	#2
Alpo Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: NW Florida Posts: 8,650	Re: old shotgun ??? You couldn't find anything in your books about L. C. Smith? http://www.lcsmith.org/ __________________ Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy, and taste good with catsup - George of Lod, Year of Our Lord 297 I always take precautions. Beware the Evil Bullet Fairies.

12-05-2012, 08:49 AM	#3
wv hillbilly Advanced Senior Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: mountains of wv. Posts: 2,016	Re: old shotgun ??? last time i went to school that first letter was eye or roman numeral one. this is a L

12-05-2012, 02:49 PM	#4
Jim K Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 6,408	Re: old shotgun ??? Well, it is an L and L.C. Smith shotguns are well known and documented. Note that the barrels are Damascus ("twist") and IMHO should be admired and not fired, and certainly not fired with smokeless powder loads. Some experts claim that well-made Damascus barrels (and L.C. Smith barrels are of high quality) can be safely fired with even modern Magnum loads. Others, some with missing fingers, would disagree. Jim

12-05-2012, 03:47 PM	#5
whirley V.I.P. Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Contributor Posts: 457	Re: old shotgun ??? There should be additional markings on the bottom of the barrels or on the flats of the receiver. I believe that part is called the water table??? I'm not sure about that designation. L.C. Smith made quality shotguns. Some barrels were finished to look like damascus barrels, but were marked "fluid steel"A nice looking wall hanger in my opinion with todays smokeless powders.

12-05-2012, 04:21 PM	#6
wv hillbilly Advanced Senior Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: mountains of wv. Posts: 2,016	Re: old shotgun ??? these markings were found when you remove the barrel from the reciever DM4R2983 LY13.86 C? maybe T 5.86 in that order

12-05-2012, 06:59 PM	#7
lead Advanced Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Missouri Posts: 1,522	Re: old shotgun ??? I don't know about this one. I was looking at others on ********* and the type of the letters is different then on your gun. Is there any kind of crown mark on the bottom of the barrels? Belguim made many copies of popular guns. I wish I still had mine but I had to let it go a few years ago and never have been able to get another. __________________ The best things in life, are not things.

12-05-2012, 07:14 PM	#8
RJay Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arizona Posts: 3,485	Re: old shotgun ??? I zoomed up several pictures of LC Smith shotguns, then yours, back and forth, I think it is a broken L and it is a L.C. Smith. The engraving and contours pretty much match. Have to admit my first thoughts were Belgium, but I'm now convinced it it a "Elsie". __________________ RonJames

12-06-2012, 01:47 AM	#10
Anchor Clanker V.I.P. Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Vacaville,California Posts: 196	Re: old shotgun ??? None of those numbers match serial numbers given in my reference. Are you sure you have read them and posted them correctly? Hammerless damascus barrel shotguns were made in two groups from 1884 to 1886 and 1886 to 1890. We caution shooter to be careful about shooting old damascus barreled shotguns for several reasons.We can't see the gun to determine its condition, the barrels may have rust pits almost all the way through the barrel walls. These old guns were used hard and received little maintenance and care. There are cheap made guns out there that were unsafe to shoot using almost any ammunition. Usually these are inexpensive poorly made Belgian made guns made back in the early 20th century often referred to a Just Another Belgian Clunker (JABC). Damascus barreled guns were not designed or made for modern ammunition loaded with high pressure smokeless powder, steel shot or slugs. Given the American propensity for wanting more powerful ammunition somewhere, sometime, some damn fool is going to stuff a 3 inch magnum in one of these old guns (it can be done), cock the hammers and pull the trigger. If when various pieces take off for parts unknown and if he is still standing, has the normal number of fingers and eyes, we don't want him coming back to us and say "You didn't tell me that wasn't safe!"

12-06-2012, 05:55 AM	#11
wv hillbilly Advanced Senior Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: mountains of wv. Posts: 2,016	Re: old shotgun ??? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- None of those numbers match serial numbers given in my reference that was my point when i posted a picture of the gun. i looked through all the LC SMITH information i had and came to the same conclusion you did

12-06-2012, 12:21 PM	#12
Buffalochip Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 754	Re: old shotgun ??? Looking at the engraving--not very well executed, I suspect it has a heritage similar to my W. Richards...JABC.