What went wrong? (pictures inside)

[oneoldsap]

Originally Posted by The Joker

Not trying to start an argument but I never used a crimp die before and I never had any issues. Is there anything particular about a .357 mag that needs it?

Yes sir there is ! Revolver ammo has to be crimped so the bullets don't shuck forward during recoil . You need to learn a little more about what you're doing as that is basic knowledge for any reloader . But hey you're trying , and seeking the knowledge you need to safely reload ! Safety First , and foremost !

[The Joker]

Well thats the thing, I keep reading different things. Some people say you need to crimp every load other say just the bottle necked loads like most rifles.

I am also reading different things on here about my particular situation. 7 out of the 50 that I made arent right. So I am trying to figure out what is different about these 7. I also test fired my first 3 rounds and they shot and cycled just right from my rifle. These loads are for my lever action, not just a revolver.

[The Joker]

Not trying to here, I am reading each one of these post and trying to check and see whats going on.

[cycloneman]

I hope your not mis unerstanding something i said.

First of all your bullet seating die will give you a crimp.

Eariler someone had brought up a factory crimp die. A factory crimp die is something else and is a die all by itself. Not important in this application right now. There are different types of crimps. Stick with the one built into your die for now.

take it easy and slow. Again remember that you will have to push the lever harder once the bullet is seated all the way to produce the crimp. Start seating the bullet and adjusting the seating part of the die untill you get to the proper length. then push harder for the crimp. Your travel will be all gone from your lever and you will be "pushing the lever" and you will get a roll crimp.

Now you will screw up some cases untill you find the correct settings. I usually do this with unprimed cases.

[USMCSpeedy]

Originally Posted by The Joker

These loads are for my lever action, not just a revolver.

I don't have a lever gun (yet ) but from what I know of them, I would definitely want a crimp to keep the bullets from pushing in when they are loaded in the tube, especially with what the recoil could do to them.

[The Joker]

Originally Posted by cycloneman

I hope your not mis unerstanding something i said.

First of all your bullet seating die will give you a crimp.

Eariler someone had brought up a factory crimp die. A factory crimp die is something else and is a die all by itself. Not important in this application right now. There are different types of crimps. Stick with the one built into your die for now.

This is making me think I dont fully understand what a crimp was. I thought you needed a crimping die to set a crimp on the bullets.

So from what I understand from you I can make one using a regular seating die?

[The Joker]

I always thought the crimp on a bullet was the marks or lines signifying that it the bullet is seated tightly on the casings. Like I said before I never did that or used a crimping die in any of my loads.

So if I can just use my seat die, is there anywhere I can go to read or see more about crimping?

And to clearify some previous posts, the bullets are armscor 158 grain FMJs in a .357 diameter.

[cycloneman]

Originally Posted by The Joker

This is making me think I dont fully understand what a crimp was. I thought you needed a crimping die to set a crimp on the bullets.

So from what I understand from you I can make one using a regular seating die?

Your using lee dies right? I cant speak for all dies, the lee dies will give you a roll crimp. just follow my direction. Your simply not pushing the lever hard enough to crimp the case. That is one problem the other is the dept of the bullet.

Yes there is a factory crimp die. Lee makes it and it will only crimp your round. That is all it does. It gives you a different type of crimp. Dont worry about that for now. More important in rifle cartridges and we can go into that later.

[USMCSpeedy]

Here is the basics of crimping http://thefirearmsforum.com/showthread.php?t=76154. Most good reloading manuals will have a section on it as well.

[cycloneman]

tell you what you do. Take one of your screwed up rounds that the bullet is too deep. put it back into your press and work the lever all the way down till it bottoms out. Now push the lever hard. Like your gona smash the bullet in the die. Then pull it out you should see your crimp. Once you have achieved this all else will fall into place for you. Dont shoot that screwed up round now, pull the bullet or thow it away. If you dont get a crimp then your die is not screwed in far enough.

[cycloneman]

Joker

Watch this it is 55 seconds long

it is a help video from lee.

it is the 3rd one down on the left side called pistol bullet seating die adjustment. He goes thru the whole step in 55 seconds.

http://leeprecision.com/single-stati...djustment.html

[76Highboy]

Originally Posted by The Joker

Well thats the thing, I keep reading different things. Some people say you need to crimp every load other say just the bottle necked loads like most rifles.

I am also reading different things on here about my particular situation. 7 out of the 50 that I made arent right. So I am trying to figure out what is different about these 7. I also test fired my first 3 rounds and they shot and cycled just right from my rifle. These loads are for my lever action, not just a revolver.

Your doing just fine Joker.

[The Joker]

I got the private message 76highboy thank you very much.

Cycloneman, yes it is the lee carbide die and that video is actually very useful. Its a little different then how I normally do it but it seems to be a great way. I am going to try it right away and post my results.


USMCSpeedy, that is a good read thanks for posting it. I understand crimping better now

[The Joker]

Ok I think I am onto something.

I checked the the space of the mouth of the cases after the expander die and it was .388-.389 too big.
I even double checked with that page with all the videos and I am installing the expander die correctly, but how do I adjust it to give it a smaller expander?

Fooling around with it a little more I can confirm this was my issue from the beginning. I did say it was a little harder to press on the lever and thats because the case is to thick up near the head to go into the seating die.

[myfriendis410]

Originally Posted by cycloneman

Read my post before this one. Your seating is not set correctly. And your not throwing the lever fully. Once you seat and bottom out then you must push on the lever to achieve the crimp.

Nothing wrong with the crimp the die will give you. Dont worry about a factory crimp die for this application. That is more important for rifle rounds with a neck. Straight pistol cases are different.

Only if a: you are using a taper crimp die or b: all of your brass is trimmed to the same length. A roll crimp can easily buckle the case if it's set for a nominal length case and actually crimps a case that needs trimming. That can be the difference between an acceptable crimp and no crimp at all or, going the other way, a good crimp and a buckled case.

[howlnmad]

Originally Posted by The Joker

Ok I think I am onto something.

I checked the the space of the mouth of the cases after the expander die and it was .388-.389 too big.
I even double checked with that page with all the videos and I am installing the expander die correctly, but how do I adjust it to give it a smaller expander?

Start from the beginning. With the expander die out of the press, back the expander plug way out. Now screw the die into the press and adjust it according to the instructions. Now insert a piece of brass and run it into the die. Screw the expander plug down until you feel it touch the shell and then give it just a bit more of a turn. Lower the ram and look at the brass. Do you see a slight flare? If not, run the same piece back into the die and screw the expander plug in just a little more. Keep doing this until you have just enough flare to set a bullet it. No need to over do it, you'll only shorten the life of the brass. This is where you get bullet tension from. Get through this and then we'll discuss crimping.

[The Joker]

Taken from that website I do it exactly like in this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptFkv...layer_embedded

From what I am reading your telling me to do the same thing I am correct?

[ozo]

I too would start all over.....
all dies out.
My Lee .38 dies #90964 are a 4-die set.
The instructions that came with them
will walk you through step by step.
The Lee help videos are a great secondary source.

[howlnmad]

You're using Lee dies. Sorry, I was giving instructions for RCBS. The video you watched was not for setting up the expander die, it was the decapping/sizing die.

For the powder through/expanding die......

Raise the ram with no brass in the shell holder and screw the die into the press until it touches the shellholder, lower the ram and screw the die out 1 turn. Lightly tighten the lock ring. Now put a piece of brass in the shellholder and raise the ram. Lower the ram and check for flare. If there is none, hold the lock ring and screw the die body slightly in, if there is to much, unscrew the die body. When you get the amount of flare, tighten the lock ring.

[The Joker]

I am sorry this is the video I meant to post

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7yfQFlu9Wy0

[The Joker]

Still using newish cases the expander die is opening the mouth too wide. I havent had this issue when I loaded .38s

[howlnmad]

If your case moths are still flared to much you'll need to back the die body out a bit more.

[time2shoot]

Originally Posted by 76Highboy

If I am reading your O.P. right, this is what I am thinking. You set your expander die up to expand the brass, and all was fine there. But, upon running 50 rounds some of the brass was slightly longer then the rest of the batch. Therefore they were expanded a bit larger which enable you to "press the bullet in" with your finger. Then, when the cartridge was in the upward motion going into the seater die the bullet rubbed the side of the die and was easily seated deeper then the rest.

To find out if this is the case, measure the case of the C.O.L, and then measure the case of the shorter cartridge and you should see that the shorter cartridge will have a longer piece of brass then the one with the C.O.L.

That is what I am thinking.

Thats what I was thinking. case's where a little two long.

But with the name of Joker.... I'm going to take a stab at somthing.

UMM BUD YOUR SEATING THEM TOO DEEP.

Ok got that out of the way.

And if I never have before, let me say Welcome to the forum.

[time2shoot]

I'm not shure about howlin. But, Ozo Highboy and JLA, wooley and cyclone .do a lot of revolver loads, of many Cal. and bullet weights.

You cant go wrong listning to them. they have helped me with manny an ischue

[time2shoot]

I have a .357 the mother in law a .38. I have two sets of dies. ones set for me and one for .38 cal.
Ya it's cheeting but soes using the washers
You might want to do one of theese salutions when you get every thing up and going good.