Dillon vs. Lee

wlynn5
Member
Posts: 1
(7/20/02 12:30:48 pm)
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I can get a new Dillon 650 for about $600 set up the way I like. A complete change over to a new cal. will cost about $200.

I can get a Lee load Master for around $200.

This means I can get 3 Loadmasters in different cal. for the same cost and add a new complete Loadmaster for each new caliber for the same cost.

I know next to nothing about Lee but have owned a Dillon 550 before.

What would you do and why would you do it?

shooter22
*TFF Staff*
Posts: 1230
(7/20/02 3:23:27 pm)
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Buy a Hornady Auto Progressive Lock N Load! Caliber changes are not near as expensive, and about a hundred times faster. If you are truely interested, do a little research on the lock n load. Then if you have any questions let me know. I have two of them and woulkd not own another brand.


Oh, By the way, welcome to The Firearms Forum. We are pleased to have you here.


Edited by: shooter22 at: 7/20/02 4:30:06 pm

jeeper1
V.I.P. Member
Posts: 304
(7/20/02 3:30:42 pm)
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I have Lee turret presses because they were cheap when I bought them and because they could be changed to left-handed operation easily. But my next press is going to be a Dillon 650.
The Curio and Relic Firearms Forum
To err is human. But to really screw things up you just about have to have a computer.

shooter45 us
*TFF Chief Of Staff*
Posts: 1636
(7/20/02 6:14:20 pm)
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Dillon all the way. I just sold my Square Deal B and bought an RL 550. Price $275.00. NIB

I could have bought an RL 650 for $399.00. NIB

Still a few left. Want one ?????

Scooter
Member
Posts: 18
(7/21/02 12:30:53 pm)
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I just recently purchased a complete Lee set up. Turret press, scale, and all the other accessories including all the dies required to reload .45 and 9mm, all the primers, bullets and powder for just under $200. I've been exteremy happy with my choice.

It seems that Lee has a bad rap for some reason. Probably because of the percieved value of the low priced equipment. I've reloaded approximately 2,000 rounds in the last few months, and haven't had a failure, yet. I researched the heck out of Dillon, RCBS, Hornady, and the other maj0or brands before settling on the Lee equipment. Since I was interested in "trying it out" first, before investing major $$$ I went with the Lee, and have been VERY happy with my choice.

Would I buy Lee again? You bet.

Don't discount their service, either.

Scooter



wlynn5
Member
Posts: 2
(7/22/02 10:43:54 am)
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Shooter45 us, yes I want a RL 650 at that price. More info please.

shooter45 us
*TFF Chief Of Staff*
Posts: 1648
(7/24/02 6:15:40 pm)
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OK, send me an email.

shooter45_us@yahoo.com

Edited by: shooter45 us at: 7/25/02 5:22:59 am

hotload
Member
Posts: 18
(7/24/02 9:35:14 pm)
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I find it easier to reach Shooter at ,
shooter45_us@yahoo.com

The @ works alot better than a 2
Gotcha shooter

shooter45 us
*TFF Chief Of Staff*
Posts: 1650
(7/25/02 4:24:55 am)
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Thanks for the heads up Hotload. I must have been having a blond moment.

tuckerd1
*TFF Staff*
Posts: 1233
(7/25/02 12:05:42 pm)
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Just the CRS kicking in Sam!
"They that can give up essential Liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither Liberty nor safety." (...Benjamin Franklin, 1759)

rayra
V.I.P. Member
Posts: 347
(7/25/02 2:51:25 pm)
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wlynn5, wow those Dillon prices are outta whack.

that $200 / caliber must mean you are pricing / considering having a whole pre-set tool head, dies installed, it's own powder measure included ???

I load about 10 different rifle and pistol calibers on my 550B, but only have 4 tool heads and one powder measure.

The press already comes with both large and small primer feed tubes, and the corresponding primer feed bar, and the powder measure already comes with both rifle and pistol -sized transfer bars...

I primarily load .30-06 & .45acp, and keep those tool heads 'set'. The rest I install as needed.
It only takes ~10mins to complete an entire component transfer setup, even in case of going from .30-06 to 9mm (where you'd have to change tool heads, powder transfer, primer feed, baseplate, etc.)

The Caliber Conversion Kits (baseplate and brass 'buttons') are ~$32, but work with more than 1 caliber in some cases (30-06 & .45acp the same, .223 & 9mm same too).

If you do your reloading in large batches, and can handle the minor (and mostly necessary) re-setting of components, changing calibers can be as cheap as just another set of dies and a conversion kit (if it's needed).
$50-80, vs your $200 figure.
Can you spend $200+ on optional extras? Absolutely. But you don't have to.




Ammo Guy Paul
Member
Posts: 1
(8/6/02 10:58:44 am)
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I've commercially loaded using a Lee 1000 and Lee Loadmaster. I cut my teeth on a Dillion 550. To much work for me to change calibers and powder. For absolute simplicity I like the Lee 1000. Both Lee and Dillion have there strong and weak points. My PERSONAL decision is to buy Lee. Your results may vary. Be happy, reload.


Paul, The Ammo Guy 8-)



"Aim small, miss small."

warpig883
*TFF Staff*
Posts: 4267
(8/6/02 11:32:35 am)
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Re: DILLON vs LEE
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Welcome to TFF Ammo Guy Paul


Moskovskyya
V.I.P. Member
Posts: 151
(8/6/02 2:44:39 pm)
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(30-06 & .45acp the same, .223 & 9mm same too).

Ah rayra, 30-06 and .45 acp is correct, but if you're talking about 9mm Luger or 9x18 the correct shellplate is a #5 with #3 locator buttons, the .223 /5.56 uses #3 shell plate and #3 buttons. The .223 setup is exactly matched for .380, and I think 9x25 Dillon. It's close and will probably work, but incorrect nevertheless!

Remember precision!



WyomingSwede
*TFF Senior Staff*
Posts: 512
(8/6/02 7:23:19 pm)
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I still think Lee gives more bang for the buck. Gotta love those Dillon catalogs though. swede
Wyoming Swede

AntiqueDr
*TFF Senior Staff*
Posts: 2947
(8/7/02 9:20:36 am)
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Re: DILLON vs LEE
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Just set up a new Loadmaster for .30-06. We'll see how it runs...

It was a bit disconcerting to read the warning in the Lee manual about Federal primers, when I've got about 50,000 of the things.


We Buy Guns! 1 - 100, Antique or Modern!
www.apaxenterprises.com
Master Dealer for Kimber, Wilson Combat and Dan Wesson

jeeper1
V.I.P. Member
Posts: 328
(8/7/02 10:50:06 pm)
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What warning about federal primers? What does it say? Thats all I use I have more than 12,000 of them.
The Curio and Relic Firearms Forum
To err is human. But to really screw things up you just about have to have a computer.

AntiqueDr
*TFF Senior Staff*
Posts: 2953
(8/8/02 6:35:31 am)
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ezSupporter
Re: DILLON vs LEE
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Lee manual says to only use Federal primers if you have the (optional) explosion guard. CCI and Winchester primers are said to be OK.

Right now I am wrasslin' with the priming mechanism, and trying to figure out why the stupid powder measure is leaking BL-(C)2 everywhere.


We Buy Guns! 1 - 100, Antique or Modern!
www.apaxenterprises.com
Master Dealer for Kimber, Wilson Combat and Dan Wesson

[pakmcc]

After years of research I went with the dillon 550B, and I love it. it's a very verstial machine. I load about12 rifles cals. on it and about 15 pistol cal.
I load berdan brass rifle and boxer every thing else. 30-06 down to .380 pistol I have one tool head for each cal. (it speeds things up, don't you know)
I have a mix of lee dies and other lee stuff, but I try to stay with dillon.
And I use redding and RCBS dies also. Whos got the best price and avablely.
Pat

[LDBennett]

My 20 year old Dillon RL550B press has been used so much that I had to have Dillon rebuild it twice (for free!). I reload for 30 different calibers. I had a Lee Progressive and it actually broke every time I used it....pure junk! I also have Lee dies that have rusted over the years while the RCBS, Redding and Hornady dies, stored in exactly the same place have not rusted. I like the Lee factory Crimp Dies but they need to be serviced regularly as the metal is not hard enough to resist deformation. Lee's material selection is suspect in my mind.

It is hard to go wrong with a company like Dillon who changed the way all reloading equipment manufactures treat customer service. Dillon stuff has a life time warrantee that they regularly and enthusiastically support. But go for the RL550B press as it is the most versatile (It may be pistols only now but the history of shooters is that it soon turns into rifles and pistol, given enough time).

LDBennett

[Popgunner]

I love Lee equipment & they have stuff others don't like powder scoops & a super good load manual. Does Dillon have a load manual yet?

Lee has recently changed critical areas on their presses from aluminum to cast iron making them an even better value. I did wear out a Lee turret press where the ram wore on the aluminum.

Lee has lots of cast bullet equipment that I like working with. I just yesterday got a new Lee 6 cavity bullet mold that cast 100 bullets in about 5 minutes-no warm up time, just great bullets from the get go. The mold only cost me $38.

I'm kind of ant-progressive & I use a Rockchucker & a Lee turret press with the actuater removed. I like the feel better & the ammo I load is special purpose, not just large amounts. If I need large amounts I buy factory by the case.

[Contenderizer]

I have nothing against Dillon, but for value, you simply can't beat Lee. I started reloading in the late 60's and used Lee then. When I got back into it later in life I bought the Lee Anniversary Kit and found it quite satisfactory. Lee's new Breech Lock single stage press features quick-change die inserts so you never have to set your dies again ($69.00). And their top of the line turret press is only $129.00.

Lee also makes custom dies for me (such as K-Hornet) for less than the others charge for standard dies.

I look at it this way: Should I ever want to upgrade, my old Lee equipment was so reasonably priced that I can use the press for seating primers.

[LDBennett]

A craftsman's work can be done no better than the tools he uses. Lee stuff is cheap and not meant to last. Even Lee in his book admits, no brags about how he down graded the materials used for his products because other manufacturers of reloading equipment supposedly over build their reloading equipment. I'll take over built any day.

I've been through the exercise with Lee equipment where I set aside time to reload out of a busy schedule only to have the Lee equipment break half way into the session and have to cancel the rest of the reloading session or spend precious reloading time fixing the broken Lee stuff. No thanks. I'll stick with Dillon for presses, and Hornady, RCBS, Redding or Lyman for dies. I also like the Dillon vibrational case cleaner, and their digital powder scale. For case preperation tools I really like the powered RCBS equipment. It really takes the drudgery and time consumption out of case prepariation.

You can keep the Lee stuff. I had enough of it break, get damaged from poor materials choices or just be too simple to work well or last. There are a lot of turret and single stage presses out there and for me the Lee stuff is the absolute bottom of the list.

This is my opinion and yours may differ.

LDBennett

[Popgunner]

Lee's comment on the subject is that he normaly builds presses to three times the strength needed to do it's intended job. That's even better now that he's changed from aluminum to cast iron in critical places. He comments that he uses an old C/H press in his manufacture process because it's so riduculously over-built. Dillon is not in that category because their stuff does break/wear out. Dillon is happy & chearful about sending replacement parts but their stuff still breaks. If you're going to load huge amounts of ammo then why not get a pro machine? Dillon is still among the list of hobby machines. My neighbor by my shop is a custom re-loader (Center Street Brass Co) & he's tried to use Dillon in that setting & says it constantly broke. Lee works great for most hobby situations but yes it can be broken along with all the others.

[LDBennett]

My experience is with progressive presses, the only kind I have owned: Dillon and Lee. These are complicated devices with lots of do-dads attached to the basic frame that make them work progressively. While both the Lee and Dillon frames seem to be of similar quality it is the do-dads that broke all the time on the Lee. I am not exagerating but the Lee broke something EVERY time I used it. Not true with the Dillon. In twenty reloading session my Dillon RL550B MIGHT break something or NOT.

Another complaint with Lee is the materials they use for their ancilliary equipment like powder measures: lots of plastics. Also they use a steel for their dies that doesn't resist corrosion and, in the case of the high force designs like their Factory Crimp Die and their Collet Neck Sizer die, deform with normal use. This is not theoretical analysis of their faults but problems uncovered from me using them extensively.

The bottom line is Lee is inventive but fails in the materials choice they make. That's my opinion based on my experiences.

As for using a Professional press, I can not afford thousands of dollars for a professional one or can most others trying to save money by reloading. Of the "home" progressive presses out there, its hard to beat Dillon and easy to beat Lee. Also, in general, professional reloading machines don't use standard dies but proprietary dies made to work only in their machines that are expensive. In short, pro level machines are out of the question for me and most reloaders I know!

If its single stage or turret muti-stage presses, that's not a fair comparison to progressive presses. They have no do-dads to break. If asked which of those to buy, I have no experience with any of them and would be at a loss to suggest one over the other. They are simple enough that it would be hard to go wrong with any of them. But based on my general experiences with Lee products, Lee would most certainly not be my first choice no matter the money saved in its purchase. Again, that's my opinion based on my experiences and your experiences and opinons may differ.

LDBennett

[AngelDeville]

LEE has saved me a few dollars here and there, I use a few of the Lee bullet moulds, and I recently discovered the Lee case lenght gauges/cutters.

A $5 cutter and a $4 caliber gauge helps keep my cases uniform.

I'm looking at getting a progressive press, and the only choices I have there are a Dillon 550 or 650.

[thomas44]

The only negative experience I've had with Lee was an Auto-Disk powder measure mounted on my turret press. That thing was pure JUNK.Sometimes it would get powder jammed between the moving disk and the frame of the measure and jam up and I'd end up with squib loads. That is completely unacceptable and unsafe in my book ! Still have the press, but now I meter out my charges with a Redding measure. It causes me to add an extra step to my process, but that's better than the alternative.

[williamd]

Let's see... a Bentley Continental or a VW ... let's see .....

Look at the Hornady AP. I have 550, AP and Rockchucker. Use the AP 90%, the Rockchucker 10%, the Dillon 5%.

Switching betweeh calibres is a breeze ithe the AP's sytem. 4 shell plates and I can switch between 9, 380, 38/357, 40, 45, 222, 223, 7mm08, 06 with ease. Check MidwayUSA.

[torpedoman]

A timex tells you the time just like a rolex, lee equiptment loads bullets just like dillon. Waching a thing on olives one day they were packing olives suddenly the equiptment stopped and the bottles were changed to a much more expensive brand then it started up again filling the jars from the same bin containing the same olives, when the manager was asked about it his reply was "some people enjoy paying more for their olives." Simply a matter of taste .

[LDBennett]

torpedoman:

If the Timex quits working and the Rolex continues on then the Timex is wortheless. Lee fits that to a tee. My experience with Lee is that you often spend more time fixing the Lee stuff than using it. Where is the economy in that?

I will cite specific examples;

My Lee Progresssive Press broke every time I used it and did the same for the guy I sold it to. Others here have said the same thing.

Lee collet type dies, both the neck sizer and factory crimp die, are made of such wrong materials that eventually the metal deforms requiring all the burrs and deformed parts and pieces to be fixed or the die just thrown away.

Lee regular dies and Carbide dies have so little alloy metals in them and/or are not surface coated such that over time they can rust. None of my dies from other manufacutures has ever rusted when stored in the exact same environment.

Lee's plastic powder measurer is worthless.

Lee's trimming tool would be great if you only had one case to trim but when you have any quantity, say like a 100, it could take forever. It's design is unique and not very practical but it sure is cheap.

I do not intend to buy products from a guy who insists everyone else's stuff is too strong and too over built. Anyone that touts that his reloading equipment is barely strong enough will not be my source of reloading equipment.

Use Lee if you wish but your Times/Rolex comparison does not hold water if the Timex breaks all the time.

LDBennett

[Dirtypacman]

Dillon for me

[Little Rooster]

I bought a Lee when I started Cowboy shooting, cause I couldn't afford a Dillon. Then found a used Dillon 550 with everything I need cheap. I now use both and have no complaints with either. The Lee dies are usable in the Dillon toolheads. I loaded over the weekend .45 colts and used the Lee. It takes less room in my small house and is slower production wise. It's still fast enough to produce what I need. I guess ones budget should be considered when buying

[Terry_P]

I must be the only one on this forum that likes RCBS

Given the choice of Lee or Dillon I'd go with the Dillon. If the price is a major concern I'd go into the used market and get an overbuilt Dillon or RCBS.

[Bindernut]

Originally Posted by Terry_P

I must be the only one on this forum that likes RCBS

Given the choice of Lee or Dillon I'd go with the Dillon. If the price is a major concern I'd go into the used market and get an overbuilt Dillon or RCBS.

Yer not alone Terry, I like the green stuff too.
(Except when they rebrand/recolor and mark the price up...like the PACT digital scale they sell with their name on it for $50 more.)

[BigJakeJ1s]

Lee has not started making their progressive presses out of cast iron yet. Only some of their single stage and turret presses. Probably won't be long, but not yet.

There is a third choice: Hornady LNL AP.

See this comparison of all three.

Andy

[mikea5232]

Little info on me. I have a Lee Turret press I like. But i want to buy a progressive. I mainly reload .38 and 357 mag. i will eventually get into reloading other pistol calibers but as of now thats what i reload. what do you all recommend and why?
What is the difference between the dillon 550 and 650? what do you all think of the hornady AP progressive and the dillons? (The Differences between the two pros and cons?)

Thanks!

[LDBennett]

The 550B and 650B are obviously progressive presses.

The RL550B is the popular one mostly because of it price point.

The 650 has five stations instead four. I only have a couple of cartridges were I use more than three stations so the extra station of the 650 has no use for me.

The 650 automatically moves the table with the pull of the handle (auto indexing) and the RL550B has to have the table indexed (turned) by hand. I find that manual indexing an advantage because when a progressive press screws up it is harder to fix the screwup when the table moves with every stroke of the handle. Besides that, you develope a rhythm of motion as you feed the new case and add the bullet. Rotating the table first is just part of the manual intervention you have to do anyway and just part of the rhythm. Auto indexing offers no advantage to me.

I think the 650 is also taller allowing longer catridges than the RL550B but the RL550B will handle all the mag cartridges in the 2.5 and 2.8 inch case class. A review of their cartridge kits for the press will easily reveal the longest possible case that can be reloaded but few here will shoot cartridges any longer anyway.

People who own the Hornady Progressive Press say it has the features of the Dillon 650 near to the price of the RL550B. The difference in features between the Hornady and the RL550B offers nothing to me, just as I have no interest in a 650. They also claim it cost less to do caliber conversion but I don't think they compare apples to apples. You don't need a cartridge conversion kit for every cartridge because like cases (30/06, 243, 308, etc.) share case accessories (shell plates) while cartridges cases like 30/06, 308, 300 Savage, 30-30 share the same powder funnels. I made up a chart of my caliber conversion parts and mix parts to get to a different cartridge. The required parts for each cartridge is in the instruction manual. Each of my cartridges is set up on the interchangeable head of the press (except the powder measure) so that changes in caliber take minimal time. They are set up once and do not have to be adjusted after that or for subsequent reloading sessions. (see note below)

The Dillon powder measure for both the 550 and 650 are the same. It is a sliding bar measure instead of the rotary drum used by Hornady. The claim is that the Dillon is not consistent but that has not been my findings. I use mostly spherical (ball) powders or the short cut Hornady powders and my Dillon powder measure does well with them. It does have probelms with old fashioned Dupont type long grain powders but Hodgdon offers equivalents of most of them and they short cut them. As an aside too much emphasis is placed on super accurate powder measurement. It has been proven by others that a few tenths difference in powder quantity between two cases is swamped out by the many other varibles in reloading and super accurate measurement of powder is a waste of time. I saw this highlighted in a recent advanced reloading video. But the Dillon measure accuracy is easily within a few tenths anyway.

The final "feature" shared by the 650 and the 550 is the Dillon guarantee program unmatched by anyone. Their servce is excellent and their presses are pretty much trouble free. They update them for free over time and rebuild them piece by piece as they wear out or completely if they deem it required. They are not lying about lifetime no BS guarantees. I have used their serveices more than once over the 20 years I have owned my RL550B press and their service is beyond normal expectation. My press gets heavy usage and has been completely rebuilt by them two times for free to like new specs. There was no wimpering by them...just "send that press in and we will be glad to rebuild it for free".

Both Hornady and RCBS have over the last 20 years had several progressive press designs that they have abandoned leaving the owners of such presses hanging out to dry. Hornady did that to me on a shotgun press and felt none of my pain in refusing to update my Hornady previous model that gave constant problems (that's why they dumped the design). Dillon keeps making the RL550B better at their own expense. The latest Hornady is here today (and a good competitor for Dillon) but what about tommorrow? History say Dillon will continue to evolve and update while Hornady will adandone a design for the next best one.

NOTE:

Dillon 550's and 650's have a toolhead (holds the dies) that I permanently install the dies in for the cartridge of choice. The head uses the sizer and seater dies from any common source and a Dillon powder die that is universal. The powder measure is moved from cartridge to cartridge and you only need one measure. The powder measure accomodates three different powder bar sizess: small for pistols, large for rifle, and magnum for magnum cartridges but the large and small come with the press. The universal powder die holds powder funnels for the caliber of choice, not necessarily the exact cartridge, but like 30 caliber or 35 caliber or 8mm. The powder funnels can be purchased seperate or as part of a cartridge conversion kit. The primer seating system attaches to the press and is universal. It comes with a small and large primer bar which accomodates pistol and rifle primers. The cases are held in the press with a shell plate and four buttons that is cartridge specific but are often shared by a cartridge family (like 308, 243, 30-06 family). Mixing and matching per the chart in the instruction manual allows shell holders, buttons and powder funnels to serve many different cartridges that you reload and are drop-in press parts that do not need adjustments. The shell holders and buttons can also be purchased seperately or as part of a cartridge conversion kit. Changing cartridges takes but a few minutes and few adjustments the way I do it. I reload for over 30 different cartridges, both pistol and rifle from 22 Hornet to 45-70 including 7mm Mag. Dillon flat works for me.

LDBennett

[Crazylegs]

Well, opinions vary widely. I'm definitely a Lee Load Master fan. I used to have a Dillon 550, actually two, but not at the same time. The first 550 I had ran like a gem, absolutely flawless (this was in the late '80s). The one I purchased about 5 years ago gave me nothing but primer feed problems.
Dillon would throw parts at it (to their credit) and it would run well for 100 rounds then start the same old thing (flipped/upside down primers). On my last phone call to Dillon, I was very cordial, as was the Dillon tech, and after reviewing everything we had done, his comment was to send it in or I would have to "just figure it out". I got off the phone and immediately put it up for sale. It got to the point to where I dreaded re-loading. I absolutely loathed (understatement) that machine. I couldn't get through 100 rounds without having to tear the primer system apart. I sold it in 5 minutes at a good price and stated the real reason I was selling it. The Darn thing had become my Moriarty. I then purchased a Lee Load Master after watching all the videos on YouTube feeling confident that I could get it humming. The press came in and I was impressed with the fit and finish (it does feel lighter and not as robust as the 550). It took me a day to set it up. I took my time and experimented quite a bit. I initially had a primer feed problem that was easy to fix by consulting the YouTube videos. I've since loaded around 2,000 rounds on my new LM. The primer feed has been faultless as has been the case feeder, I absolutely love this press and only paid $215 for it (including dies). I'm not writing this to trash Dillon. I still believe their presses are fine indeed. I had just reached a point where I couldn,t deal with it anymore. The LM never ceases to amaze me. I actually look forward to re-loading. The key to faultless operation with the LM is setting it up. Lees instructions are pretty lacking but there's a small group of folks who have produced videos for every aspect of the Load Master (and quite a few for the turret presses also). Is it as heavy and robust as the Dillons? No, nor does it need to be. When I think of the Dillon, I think of the manufacturing term "Non Value Added", and it comes with a pretty hefty price tag. Dillons are good presses but so are Lee's at a much reduced cost. I've just had the exact opposite experience that some folks here have had. I really llike my Lee and I haven't looked back, not for a second.
Crazylegs

[WyrTwister]

AntiqueDr
*TFF Senior Staff*
Posts: 2953
(8/8/02 6:35:31 am)
Reply | Edit | Del
ezSupporter
Re: DILLON vs LEE
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Lee manual says to only use Federal primers if you have the (optional) explosion guard. CCI and Winchester primers are said to be OK.

Right now I am wrasslin' with the priming mechanism, and trying to figure out why the stupid powder measure is leaking BL-(C)2 everywhere.


We Buy Guns! 1 - 100, Antique or Modern!
www.apaxenterprises.com
Master Dealer for Kimber, Wilson Combat and Dan Wesson[/QUOTE]


I use a Lee disk powder measure almost exclusively . Unfortunately , it leaks ball powder . Tighten the screws as tite as possible , until the disk will not slide , then back it off untill it will slide . That is the best I have come up with . :-(

My Lee Perfect Powder Measure is not practical at all with ball powder . Such is life .....

God bless
Wyr

[Waldog]

I have posted this before but, the subject always comes up. LD made some fine points with the excellent Dillon system. He is very knowledgable about Dillon and his opinions should be given credence.

In support of the Hornady Lock-n-Load, I'll share my experience with both Dillon and the LNL. I should add that I currently OWN BOTH. You are not going to find many people that have actually loaded on BOTH DILLON AND HORNADY. I have loaded on the Dillon SDB, 550, 650, 1050 and the Hornady LNL. Here is my perspective:

Consider the Hornady Lock and Load Progressive. It’s cheaper than the Dillon and has several features that, IMHO are better than Dillon.

The Dillon has been on the market a long time and have great customer service, as a result, Dillon users are very dedicated to their blue presses. Dillon presses are EXCEPTIONAL and do an exceptional job in reloading. The competition to the Dillon is the Hornady Lock and Load Auto Progressive. Because most of the Dillon users are so satisfied, when you ask the question “Which is better?”, you get swamped with comments like, "The Hornady L-n-L is Junk!" If you asked if they have ever loaded on the L-n-L and 99.9% said no. When I did find someone that had experience with both presses, most liked the L-n-L and many had sold their Dillon's and bought the L-n-L. However, there have been those that sold their red presses and bought blue. You just have to decide what you like best. Some times it’s just the color, red or blue!!

IMHO the Dillon has one major shortcoming and, most Dillon owners will agree if they are honest. The Dillon powder measure is sorely lacking in ease of use and adjustability. It meters ball type powder very well but flake type powder less so. And, extruded stick type powder is VERY troublesome and not all that accurate. To be fair, extruded powder is difficult in all powder measures. But, the L-n-L powder measure handles all types of powder MUCH better than the Dillon. Also, it is a pain to swap out the Dillon powder measure to another die plate. As a result, many owners have several powder measures on separate die plates for changing calibers. This significantly drives UP the COST. I have never heard of a LNL owner that has more than one powder measure. There is no need. It is easy to adjust. Many LNL owners, myself included, own several "Powder Dies" that are pre-adjusted to load a specific case. (Note: Powder measure fits into the Powder Die.) Each LNL powder die costs about $20. A Dillon powder measure costs $75.

Also, IMHO, the Dillon de-priming system is less reliable than the LNL. With the Dillon system, spent primers drop through the bottom of the shell plate into a small cup. It is an “open” system and is easy to empty. However, the press gets dirty with carbon. Whenever carbon/dust/dirt or “primer dust” fouls the primer seating station this causes "flipped" or "skipped" primers. The DILLON de-priming system works well provided it is kept CLEAN. The Hornady L-N-L spent primers are dropped completely through the press into a plastic tube and into the trash or bottle or whatever you want to use. It is a “closed” system. You never get carbon in and around the bottom of the shell plate. The point is the dirt off the spent primers does not foul the workings of the press. I have never had a “flipped” primer. Although I have had “missed” primers that I feel were operator error (ME!) and not the fault of the primer system. (I forgot to seat the primer!) In all fairness, the LNL primer seating station will also not work properly if the primer slide is fouled with dirt or powder.

If you want a powder check system you need a press with at least five stations. The Dillon Square Deal and 550 has 4 die stations. The L-N-L has 5 stations. The Dillon 650 has 5 stations, but costs significantly more. And, the Dillon 1050 in an industrial machine and has about 7 or eight.

How the presses indexes is an issue for some people. In reading the web about "KABOOMS" (Blowing up a gun!!), many of the kabooms I have read about were directly traced back to a manually indexing press. This is not the fault of the press but, operator error. However, with a manually indexing press, If you get distracted while reloading, you can easily double charge a pistol case. (A double charge will depend on the powder you are using and the charge weight.) IMHO, a double charge is less of a problem with auto-indexing presses. The Hornady L-N-L, Dillon 650 and, Dillon Square Deal auto index. The MOST POPULAR Dillon press, the 550 is a manually indexing press. I should add that the non-indexing feature of the 550 DOES make it easier to use a single stage press if you need that function. You can also use the LNL as a single stage press but, it is more of a nuisance to do so. Some people prefer manual, some people prefer auto. I prefer auto.

In addition, the LNL auto indexing is significantly smoother than the Dillon 650. The LNL indexes 1/2 step while the ram is going up and 1/2 step when the ram goes down. The 650 indexes a full step and can cause pistol cases to spill SMALL AMOUNTS or powder with the indexing "bump". IMHO, the LNL is dramatically better. Of course, the amount of powder "bumped" from a case is dependent on the powder charge, operator and speed of reloading. As I stated above, you get primer problems with a dirty press. "Bumped" powder fouls BOTH Dillon and LNL.

Next, the L-N-L uses a really slick bushing system for mounting loading dies to the press. It makes changing calibers and SNAP. After a die is adjusted for whatever you are loading you can remove the die from the press with an 1/8 turn and insert a different die. Each die has it's own bushing. The Dillon uses a die plate. The Dillon die plate costs more than L-N-L bushings. Another neat feature with the Hornady is that you can buy a bushing conversion setup and use the same bushings on your RCBS, Lyman or other single stage press and the L-N-L!

Additionally, the L-N-L seems to be built like a tank! The ram is about 2"+ in diameter and the basic press is similar in construction to the RCBS Rockchucker. I would say that a side-by-side comparison to the either the Dillon 550 OR 650, the L-N-L is at least as sturdily built. And, in some areas I think the L-N-L is better built. i.e., The massive ram, powder measure, and primer system. The head/top of the press is solid except for where the dies are inserted. The Dillon has a large cutout that is needed for their die plates. By just looking, it would seem the L-N-L would be stronger. But, of course, that may not be the case.
There is one piece that can get damaged on the L-N-L. There is a coil spring that holds the cases in the shell holder that can get crushed if you improperly change shell holders. That's the bad news. The good news is that they are only about $2-3 for three and they won't get crushed if you change shell plates correctly. The other good news is that this spring is the primary reason that while loading you can easily remove a case at any station. With the Dillon you have to remove pins in order to take a shell out of a shell plate.

Another item to think about. For NON-CASE FEEDER users; all Dillon's (Except 1050) require you to use BOTH hands to load brass and bullets:

1) Right hand inserts an empty case on the right side of the press.
2) Left hand then sets the bullet on the case mouth.
Right hand then activates the operating handle.
Release operating handle and insert another case with the right hand and so forth. (Right, left, right, right, left, right,right)


With the LNL you insert both an empty case AND bullet with the left hand. Your right hand never leaves the operating lever. Loading cases and bullets with the left hand is very natural to me. Others may really dislike this feature and prefer the right/left/right/right operation of Dillon. A case feeder eliminates this operation and both Dillon and LNL only load bullets on the left side of the press.

You can load anything on both the Dillon and L-N-L from .25 ACP to 500 N.E. Realistically, I would say that people with progressive loaders mostly load pistol ammo 99% of the time. After using the L-N-L for while I feel confident that my Grandkids will be using when I'm gone.

In summary, the Hornady L-N-L has all the features of the Dillon 650 but is much cheaper. However, the Dillon automatic case feeder is about $50 cheaper that the Hornady. Changing calipers on the LNL is faster and cheaper. The powder measure on the L-N-L is VASTLY SUPERIOR TO THE DILLON, at least in my opinion. I bought the L-N-L and am very satisfied. A shooting buddy of mine is a long time, dedicated Dillon user. He has three! After giving me a ration of "stuff" about my choice, he came over and used my L-N-L and sheepishly said, "That's a very nice setup!!"

[LDBennett]

waldog:

That was a fair assessment of the Dillon RL550B and the Hornady L-n-L. Here's my counter:

I do not find huge amounts of spent primer residue in my primer system. I clean it after every use which amounts to about a day at a time. The "flips" of primers occurs when I reload new brass and do not lube the inside of the case throat. The sizing die grabs the bare metal and suddenly releases and shakes the press causing the primer in the punch to flip. If I detect new brass is too hard to get the die out of then I use the dry moly lube from NECO and no more flips.

There is nothing wrong with ball powders and I use them and short cut extruded powders almost exclusively. For virtually any extruded powder there is a Hodgdon or Winchester equivalent burning rate powder that works well. For those few cases where I just have to have an extruded powder I use the Dillon powder measure adapter and use the very good Redding BR2 powder measure manually.

To remove a case on the Dillon RL550B you only have to remove ONE pin.

I have two functioning hands and can do one thing with one hand while doing something else with the other. I add a new case with the right hand while I load a bullet on the top of the just powdered case. I have done this so often I can do it in my sleep.

I DO NOT allow distractions in my reloading room... ever. If there is a something that makes me stop I double check where the press is in its processes when I restart.

I PREFER manual advancing of the table for a couple of reasons. The first is that it allows single stage and turret press operation of this progressive Dillon RL550B. I reload a lot of rifle cartridges (mostly!!) and sometimes have to size before I trim. The single stage feature allow me to do that easily. Auto indexing only gets in the way for ME. The second is that sometimes progressive presses get screwed up. It happens on all progressives and really is the fault of what you are reloading not the press. Auto indexing tables exasperate the cleanup of the press mess, in my experience (LEE progressive and Dillon Square Deal auto indexing presses), as the table will go backwards and forwards. Not so with auto indexing presses I have used.

I see no need for powder level checking devices. I pay attention to everything the press is doing and have not had a problem with a charge levels in the 20+ years of using my Dillon RL550B. Again, I allow no distraction while reloading.

While it MAY BE more expensive to handle multiple calibers with the Dillon, I prefer the way Dillon does it. The die plates in my press are set up for each of the 30+ cartridges I reload for, one for each caliber. I have ONE powder measure that I drop onto the caliber specific pre-setup powder die with the caliber specific powder funnel dropped in, tighten up two screws, snap the protection linkage device onto the the press and I am ready to reload. I do have to set the powder bar which I do with a scale, of course, and I may have to change to one of the two different volume powder bars but planning minimizes that. That takes one screw.

The Dillon service is out of this world. I got a taste of Hornady's service several years ago with their shotgun press and I was not impressed. As with the cartridge press, Hornady has gone through several version trying to get to a reliable version. I got caught between model changes and Hornady would not help me out at all. Dillon took back a Square Deal press I used for over a year for full value and applied it to a new RL550B, just to keep me happy. That's service. In fact Dillon service changed the industry. Up to their entrance into the reloading field no one had good service but most do now.

I have no use for a cartridge case feeder. I don't do that much volume loading of pistol cartridges and they are WAY too expensive.

We all get opinions and get to choose. While I have not used a Hornady L-n-L press or the Dillon 650 (they have auto indexing that I don't care for!), their features are wrong for ME. They may work for some but not me. So you choose whatever press you want but just be aware of the long and successful history of the Dillon RL550B and the many very happy users. If there is something better then people generally gravitate towards it and and from their last love and I am not really seeing that happen (??). Dillon is doing fine, thank you.

LDBennett

[JLA]

(sigh)