Winchester Model 90

OHshooter · 03-03-2004, 09:11 AM

I have a Winchester 22LR SN 742XXX, that is marked Model 90. Is this the same as the 1890?

I would rate it's condition somewhere between fair and good depending on whether I was buying or selling

At some point in it's past the stock split behind the tang and it was repaired (?) with some sort of glue or epoxy but it is failing again.

I don't think I'm dealing with a super collectable rifle here so I may look around for a replacement stock.

inplanotx · 03-03-2004, 09:29 AM

First off, OHshooter, welcome to TFF. Glad to have you with us.

Need more info on the rifle. Is it slide action? Blue or case hardened, barrel length, exposed hammer? Please let us know.

Marlin · 03-03-2004, 09:34 AM

Glad to see you at TFF, OHshooter. We hope you enjoy it here and will become a frequent poster, not just a visitor.

We are a diverse group and enjoy a camaraderie unsurpassed anywhere on the Web. Our collective knowledge is some of the finest you will find anywhere and is unsurpassed.

Please pull up a stump and make yourself at home. We are dedicated to the preservation of the United States Constitution and those who gave their all to see it through from the beginning to the present. We hope it will be one of your favorite places. Finally, we would like you to feel that this is just as much your home as it is ours.

OHshooter · 03-03-2004, 11:54 AM

DUH yeah that would probably help.

It is a take down, slide/pump action 22LR with a 24" octagonal barrel, Marble tang sight, exposed hammer, origianlly blued although the action has faded to a sort of brown (NOT case hardened). Patten dates of June 26, 1880, Dec 6, 1892, Nov 27, 1906 May 30, 1911

I'm pretty sure that it is a 1890 but it is marked "Model 90" and I am not sure how they were marked.

Thanks

inplanotx · 03-03-2004, 01:00 PM

Well, according to my book, the end of production on the 1890 was 1932 with serial number 734454. However, a cleanup of the production run continued for 8+ years with some 14 or 15,000 guns being made. A total of 849,000 were made. Case hardened receiver was stopped in 1901.

Blued receiver

98% (very rare) - $875
90% $600
80% 550
70% 495
60% 450
50% 395
40% 360
30% 320
20% 280
10% 235

You need to find the proof marks on the barrel to see if the barrel was changed at some time.

My book is a little old so maybe someone can check the later edition. Just sent for my new copy.

CountryGunsmith · 03-03-2004, 07:22 PM

It is a very late Model 1890, made in 1930. The barrel is almost certainly original.

You mention a Marble's tang sight. These were available fitted at the factory on special order although by 1930 there was not much of that being done. Most likely added by the purchaser. The style of front sight would go a long way to telling us that.

Per your description, the gun is NOT in collectable condition. It is worthy of a careful, professional restoration - not for value purposes but just to make a wonderful old gun right again.

OHshooter · 03-03-2004, 07:57 PM

The front sight is a blade sight with the sides of it scalloped so that the top of the blade forms a sort of a long bead, if that makes any sense. It is sort of like a Marble's contour sight but there is no bead on it and it doesn't look like there ever was one.

The rear sight is a folding leaf.

It looks like everything is original to the rifle with as you say, the possible exception of the tang sight.

wundudnee · 03-03-2004, 08:08 PM

OHshooter,

Welcome, 1890, 90, any old Winchester rimfire, you are talking my interest. Winchester introduced the 1890 in 1890 with the black powder loaded WRF cartridge. all 1890s and 90s were caliber specific, ie. short, long, long rifle or WRF only 29 years later in 1919 they shortened the designation to model 90.
Very similar to them calling the early 1894s model 94s later.
The 1890 and model 90 are the same rifle. They didn't offer the .22LR chambering until 1919 so it would be naturally a model 90. The .22 LR is the hardest one to find in any condition, so any LR in only decent shape is very desirable. If the tang sight on your's is a Lyman WS-1, it is worth $125.00-$175.00 by itself. The sight is marked under the base. It is well worth putting a good stock on it. I wouldn't try to refinish the rifle, I would put nice wood on it, clean it up carefully and use it and grin a lot.

I have a whole handful of 1890-90s and don't have a .22 LR.

Hey wundudnee you big dummy, the man stated it was a Marbles tang sight. Oh yeah, well it's still a high dollar piece of equipment.

Smokin Guns · 03-03-2004, 08:35 PM

Welcome to TFF OHshooter! Same as WDN is sayin', y'all gotta keeper...

Xracer · 03-04-2004, 10:32 AM

Hi OHshooter......welcome to TFF!

Wundudnee....I thought that the .22 WRF was a smokeless powder round designed especially for the 1890...and that the 1890 was introduced in that caliber so that current .22 LR cartridges (which were mostly blackpowder) couldn't be used, since blackpowder residue would gum up the works.

And that the same was true for the .22 Winchester Automatic and the M1903.

wundudnee · 03-04-2004, 01:29 PM

The first Winchester Rimfire cartridges were loaded with 7 grains of black powder and a 45 grain flat nose bullet. You are right in that they had a lot of trouble with the action gumming up, and that the WRF was developed for the 1890. The cartridges at that time were primed with chlorate fulminate which was very corrosive and black powder. It was stated that you could hardly get through a full box of 50 without a bullet sticking in the barrel or the action fouling. This is why early model 1890s usually are found with very poor bores.

Winchester introduced smokeless powder in 1895. They had ejection problems with the long rifle cartridges of the time. The crimps wouldn't hold the bullet if you tried to eject it without firing it. It would leave the bullet in the chamber. That is why they held off until 1919 chambering for long rifle.

The 1903 Winchester automatic was smokeless.

I really don't know anything about these things, but I've got some really good reference books.

Ned Schwings "Winchester Slide Action Rifles"
Volume 1: Model 1890 & Model 1906

Page 90

Smokin Guns · 03-04-2004, 06:07 PM

Quote:

I really don't know anything about these things

Scott, I'm a'thinkin when it comes ta these shooters...I'm guuna ask you...

OHshooter · 03-17-2004, 08:47 AM

I got a replacement stock from Brownells.

Any ideas where I can get a front magazine ring? Half of this one is missing, looks like it was broken off long ago.

Numrich (e-gunparts) list them but doesn't have any in stock.

03-03-2004, 09:11 AM	#1
OHshooter Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 36	Winchester Model 90 I have a Winchester 22LR SN 742XXX, that is marked Model 90. Is this the same as the 1890? I would rate it's condition somewhere between fair and good depending on whether I was buying or selling At some point in it's past the stock split behind the tang and it was repaired (?) with some sort of glue or epoxy but it is failing again. I don't think I'm dealing with a super collectable rifle here so I may look around for a replacement stock. --> Last edited by OHshooter; 03-03-2004 at 09:12 AM..

03-03-2004, 09:29 AM	#2
inplanotx Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 8,897	First off, OHshooter, welcome to TFF. Glad to have you with us. Need more info on the rifle. Is it slide action? Blue or case hardened, barrel length, exposed hammer? Please let us know. Attached Images __________________

03-03-2004, 09:34 AM	#3
Marlin TFF Admin Staff Chief Counselor Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: At SouthernMoss' side forever! Contributor Posts: 13,853	Glad to see you at TFF, OHshooter. We hope you enjoy it here and will become a frequent poster, not just a visitor. We are a diverse group and enjoy a camaraderie unsurpassed anywhere on the Web. Our collective knowledge is some of the finest you will find anywhere and is unsurpassed. Please pull up a stump and make yourself at home. We are dedicated to the preservation of the United States Constitution and those who gave their all to see it through from the beginning to the present. We hope it will be one of your favorite places. Finally, we would like you to feel that this is just as much your home as it is ours. Attached Images __________________ *The flag represents a living country and is itself considered a living thing.* *The only criminal class native to the United States is Congress.*

03-03-2004, 01:00 PM	#5
inplanotx Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 8,897	Well, according to my book, the end of production on the 1890 was 1932 with serial number 734454. However, a cleanup of the production run continued for 8+ years with some 14 or 15,000 guns being made. A total of 849,000 were made. Case hardened receiver was stopped in 1901. Blued receiver 98% (very rare) - $875 90% $600 80% 550 70% 495 60% 450 50% 395 40% 360 30% 320 20% 280 10% 235 You need to find the proof marks on the barrel to see if the barrel was changed at some time. My book is a little old so maybe someone can check the later edition. Just sent for my new copy. Attached Images __________________ Last edited by inplanotx; 03-03-2004 at 01:02 PM..

03-03-2004, 07:22 PM	#6
CountryGunsmith Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Deep Piney Woods of East Texas Posts: 5,116	It is a very late Model 1890, made in 1930. The barrel is almost certainly original. You mention a Marble's tang sight. These were available fitted at the factory on special order although by 1930 there was not much of that being done. Most likely added by the purchaser. The style of front sight would go a long way to telling us that. Per your description, the gun is NOT in collectable condition. It is worthy of a careful, professional restoration - not for value purposes but just to make a wonderful old gun right again. __________________ The autonomic nervous system provides for involuntary muscle function - the work of breathing, digestion, and so forth. On some folks, that's a pure waste of ingenuity.

03-03-2004, 11:54 AM	#4
OHshooter Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 36	DUH yeah that would probably help. It is a take down, slide/pump action 22LR with a 24" octagonal barrel, Marble tang sight, exposed hammer, origianlly blued although the action has faded to a sort of brown (NOT case hardened). Patten dates of June 26, 1880, Dec 6, 1892, Nov 27, 1906 May 30, 1911 I'm pretty sure that it is a 1890 but it is marked "Model 90" and I am not sure how they were marked. Thanks

03-03-2004, 07:57 PM	#7
OHshooter Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 36	The front sight is a blade sight with the sides of it scalloped so that the top of the blade forms a sort of a long bead, if that makes any sense. It is sort of like a Marble's contour sight but there is no bead on it and it doesn't look like there ever was one. The rear sight is a folding leaf. It looks like everything is original to the rifle with as you say, the possible exception of the tang sight.

03-03-2004, 08:08 PM	#8
wundudnee V.I.P. Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Perry, Kansas USA Posts: 315	OHshooter, Welcome, 1890, 90, any old Winchester rimfire, you are talking my interest. Winchester introduced the 1890 in 1890 with the black powder loaded WRF cartridge. all 1890s and 90s were caliber specific, ie. short, long, long rifle or WRF only 29 years later in 1919 they shortened the designation to model 90. Very similar to them calling the early 1894s model 94s later. The 1890 and model 90 are the same rifle. They didn't offer the .22LR chambering until 1919 so it would be naturally a model 90. The .22 LR is the hardest one to find in any condition, so any LR in only decent shape is very desirable. If the tang sight on your's is a Lyman WS-1, it is worth $125.00-$175.00 by itself. The sight is marked under the base. It is well worth putting a good stock on it. I wouldn't try to refinish the rifle, I would put nice wood on it, clean it up carefully and use it and grin a lot. I have a whole handful of 1890-90s and don't have a .22 LR. Hey wundudnee you big dummy, the man stated it was a Marbles tang sight. Oh yeah, well it's still a high dollar piece of equipment. Attached Images Last edited by wundudnee; 03-03-2004 at 08:22 PM..

03-03-2004, 08:35 PM	#9
Smokin Guns Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: "Gun Culture Members Clubhouse"... Posts: 4,463	Welcome to TFF OHshooter! Same as WDN is sayin', y'all gotta keeper... __________________

03-04-2004, 10:32 AM	#10
Xracer TFF Admin Staff Mediator Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Minn-eeee-sota, ya, sure, you bet! Posts: 9,144	Hi OHshooter......welcome to TFF! Wundudnee....I thought that the .22 WRF was a smokeless powder round designed especially for the 1890...and that the 1890 was introduced in that caliber so that current .22 LR cartridges (which were mostly blackpowder) couldn't be used, since blackpowder residue would gum up the works. And that the same was true for the .22 Winchester Automatic and the M1903.

03-04-2004, 01:29 PM	#11
wundudnee V.I.P. Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Perry, Kansas USA Posts: 315	Xracer The first Winchester Rimfire cartridges were loaded with 7 grains of black powder and a 45 grain flat nose bullet. You are right in that they had a lot of trouble with the action gumming up, and that the WRF was developed for the 1890. The cartridges at that time were primed with chlorate fulminate which was very corrosive and black powder. It was stated that you could hardly get through a full box of 50 without a bullet sticking in the barrel or the action fouling. This is why early model 1890s usually are found with very poor bores. Winchester introduced smokeless powder in 1895. They had ejection problems with the long rifle cartridges of the time. The crimps wouldn't hold the bullet if you tried to eject it without firing it. It would leave the bullet in the chamber. That is why they held off until 1919 chambering for long rifle. The 1903 Winchester automatic was smokeless. I really don't know anything about these things, but I've got some really good reference books. Ned Schwings "Winchester Slide Action Rifles" Volume 1: Model 1890 & Model 1906 Page 90

03-17-2004, 08:47 AM	#13
OHshooter Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 36	I got a replacement stock from Brownells. Any ideas where I can get a front magazine ring? Half of this one is missing, looks like it was broken off long ago. Numrich (e-gunparts) list them but doesn't have any in stock.