Glocknut take NOTE - The Firearms Forum

Marlin · 04-10-2004, 10:08 AM

Interesting article from today's WorldNetDaily, taken from the Omaha World-Herald....
~~~~~~~~~

Ex-officer sues over malfunctioning gun

BY TODD COOPER
WORLD-HERALD STAFF WRITER

Moments after being shot during a botched bank heist, Omaha Police Officer Jeffrey Holland trained his gun at a robber and found himself experiencing the kind of horror typically reserved for Hollywood endings.

He pulled the trigger - and nothing happened.

In the mad scramble that ensued, Holland frantically failed to get his gun to fire. He used one robber as a shield while he tackled the other. He bit. He punched. He kicked. And he was shot twice more.

All, Holland said, because his Glock handgun wouldn't fire after being hit by a bullet during the March 2000 robbery attempt at the Great Western Bank, 4718 L St.

For that, Holland filed a federal lawsuit last week against Glock, the gun manufacturing giant, saying he wouldn't have been shot the second and third times and wouldn't have been severely injured if his gun hadn't malfunctioned.

The lawsuit, in which Holland asks for general damages for pain, suffering and medical bills, will center on the question: Should handguns be bulletproof?

The lawsuit contends that Glock billed its handgun as "virtually indestructible, stronger than steel and (able to) withstand torturous abuse and still function."

Holland relied on those guarantees when he purchased the Glock to replace his Smith & Wesson police sidearm, his attorney, Matthew Miller, wrote in the lawsuit.

Miller contends that Holland's gun was only "nicked" - damage that shouldn't have disabled it.

An attorney for Glock didn't return repeated calls seeking comment. Glock is one of the best-selling handguns in the nation and is often the standard gun for law enforcement agencies, including Omaha police.

Dan Brado, a weapons expert with the Omaha Police Department's crime laboratory, said no gun is indestructible. Any gun can be disabled if hit in the right place, he said.

Holland, now an instructor at Missouri Western State College in St. Joseph, has testified about his scramble to apprehend the robbers without his gun - an effort that earned him national officer of the year honors.

After being ordered to hand over his gun and handcuff himself, Holland whipped one of the robbers with handcuffs and struck him in the sternum. The officer drew his gun and was kneeling over the robber when he spotted a second robber entering the bank.

Holland, who was working security at the bank, pointed his gun at the second robber. The two fired simultaneously, and bullets hit Holland's gun and his chest, under his heart.

Holland tried to fire again, but nothing came out. So he picked up the first robber and used him as a shield until he could get close enough to tackle the second robber.

The officer and the two robbers ended up in a pile, with one of the robbers screaming at the other one: "Kill him! Just kill him!"

Holland overpowered the two and took control.

"I reached down, grabbed the Glock and put it to the second party's head and pulled the trigger," Holland has said. "Nothing happened."

One of the men escaped but was arrested later. Both are serving lengthy prison sentences.

©2004 Omaha World-Herald

inplanotx · 04-10-2004, 10:12 AM

Glad I don't own one! Nice read, Marlin! Let's see what Glock comes up with!

glocknut · 04-10-2004, 10:46 AM

I'll bet you just could'nt wait to post that story.....

The accusations made by that scum sucking lawyer are'nt worth responding to......

It just goes to show that cops are people too. They can blame whoever for whatever and find a lawyer to file a frivilious lawsuit just as easy as the next guy.....

Marlin, you've pretty much sealed to deal on me EVER buying a 1911. I'm just spitefull enough to skip the whole 1911 thing over all the "serious type" of ribbing on Glocks. I was leaning towards a sig p220, and that just tipped me over the edge.....
The out of the box 220 is a whole lot more gun than I'll ever get out of a $900 springfield 1911......

mike

glocknut · 04-10-2004, 10:56 AM

PS

you scared the **** outta me with that thread title.....

Thought I was in trouble again..

mike

Marlin · 04-10-2004, 11:07 AM

No trouble, sorry.

Just a long rusty needle poking a little fun. Delighted you're here and posting.

If you were in trouble the public wouldn't know about it......................

inplanotx · 04-10-2004, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Marlin, you've pretty much sealed to deal on me EVER buying a 1911

Sorry to hear that. Means you'll never get the feel of a real gun!

gpostal · 04-10-2004, 12:32 PM

Well said plano

Cut off your nose to spite your face glocknut ,teach us all a real lesson ,spend 900.00 on six hi-point .45’s every time one jams you can draw another

but you are probably correct in your lawsuit analysis ,I am sure a well placed bullet could disable any weapon

glocknut · 04-10-2004, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by gpostal
Well said plano

Cut off your nose to spite your face glocknut ,teach us all a real lesson ,spend 900.00 on six hi-point .45’s every time one jams you can draw another

What does high point have to do with anything.....
I said....Sig

I've said this before, and I'll say it again. I've owned a 1911 compact and have shot several full size 1911's....
They just don't "turn my crank" so to speak.....
I hate single action triggers...

mike

Remington597 · 04-10-2004, 04:39 PM

The key questions are this:

1. How well maintained was the firearm?
2. How often did the officer clean said firearm?
3. Was the firearm properly cleaned?
4. Was he using the correct ammunition?
5. Was the firearm customized with unathorized accessories of any kind that are incompatible with Glock authorized parts?

These questions seem moronic to us, since we are firearms enthusiasts and this is second nature to us. , but you would be surprised how many law enforcement officers don't even know how to take apart their gun, much less clean it regularly.

gpostal · 04-10-2004, 04:47 PM

Did you forget you wrote this

Quote:

Marlin, you've pretty much sealed to deal on me EVER buying a 1911. I'm just spitefull enough to skip the whole 1911 thing over all the "serious type" of ribbing on Glocks.

I was making a joke ,if your going to be spiteful ,heck why stop at a sig ,go all out ,really show us {lol}

JohnnyRobotic · 04-10-2004, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Marlin

Holland said, because his Glock handgun wouldn't fire after being hit by a bullet

Am i the ONLY one who saw this . . .

Guns are made to fire bullets, not take hits from them

i don't think it's glocks fault, it's the cops fault for not shooting first and asking questions later

If anything he should be thanking glock, for that gun blocked one more bullet from hiting him, maybe fataly !

ungrateful bastages !

like me saying someone blew up my car and because of that i had to walk home and stepped on a rusty nail, now i'm gonna sue ford because the car they built couldn't take an rpg hit

Remington597 · 04-10-2004, 06:03 PM

An excellent point Glocknut.!! Very well said!

Txquadhunter · 04-10-2004, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Remington597
The key questions are this:

1. How well maintained was the firearm?
2. How often did the officer clean said firearm?
3. Was the firearm properly cleaned?
4. Was he using the correct ammunition?
5. Was the firearm customized with unathorized accessories of any kind that are incompatible with Glock authorized parts?

These questions seem moronic to us, since we are firearms enthusiasts and this is second nature to us. , but you would be surprised how many law enforcement officers don't even know how to take apart their gun, much less clean it regularly.

Every officer I know cleans there sidearms more then there underware. Keeps them in tip top shape using ammo they know there firearm can handle smoothly. Because it can mean life or death to them in a split second. Even a few who don't know how to really break one down, but you can bet the bank they have the firearm to a good smith for complete cleaning and check over for any part that looks out of whack.

even if i wasn't a firearms enthusiast only using a firearm in the line of duty that my life depended on it'd not only be gone thru by me, buut a trusted smith too. Like the post if my firearm was hit in a shoot out, it'd head right to a smith ASAP w/out a bother of me checking it until it came back for a piece of mind test firings. Steel would be my choice. plastic best left to water guns. Glock best thing to fix wobbling tables since coasters.

Remington597 · 04-10-2004, 06:22 PM

Did the officer have a backup pistol, like a Kel Tec 32? ,etc.
If I was on duty, I would not go on patrol without a backup pistol.
Not in todays world.

Marlin · 04-10-2004, 08:03 PM

When I was on the street about a hundred years ago, I carried a S&W Model 15, Combat Masterpiece as my service weapon and a model 36 in an ankle holster for back-up.

At a later date, I started carrying a Browning Hi-Power 9mm for my service weapon but still the .38 stubby on the ankle. You can rest assured that both were cleaned daily, especially the 36 to prevent damage from sweat on the legs.

Nole · 04-12-2004, 02:55 PM

Marlin you beat me to the question of where was is secondary weapon? If i was a cop i would have 2 just makes since to me. But this man must be comemded for his act fo bravery taking 2 perps down without a gun. Thats a man with a will to survive.

04-10-2004, 10:08 AM	#1
Marlin TFF Admin Staff Chief Counselor Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: At SouthernMoss' side forever! Contributor Posts: 13,853	Glocknut take NOTE Interesting article from today's WorldNetDaily, taken from the Omaha World-Herald.... ~~~~~~~~~ Ex-officer sues over malfunctioning gun BY TODD COOPER WORLD-HERALD STAFF WRITER Moments after being shot during a botched bank heist, Omaha Police Officer Jeffrey Holland trained his gun at a robber and found himself experiencing the kind of horror typically reserved for Hollywood endings. He pulled the trigger - and nothing happened. In the mad scramble that ensued, Holland frantically failed to get his gun to fire. He used one robber as a shield while he tackled the other. He bit. He punched. He kicked. And he was shot twice more. All, Holland said, because his Glock handgun wouldn't fire after being hit by a bullet during the March 2000 robbery attempt at the Great Western Bank, 4718 L St. For that, Holland filed a federal lawsuit last week against Glock, the gun manufacturing giant, saying he wouldn't have been shot the second and third times and wouldn't have been severely injured if his gun hadn't malfunctioned. The lawsuit, in which Holland asks for general damages for pain, suffering and medical bills, will center on the question: Should handguns be bulletproof? The lawsuit contends that Glock billed its handgun as "virtually indestructible, stronger than steel and (able to) withstand torturous abuse and still function." Holland relied on those guarantees when he purchased the Glock to replace his Smith & Wesson police sidearm, his attorney, Matthew Miller, wrote in the lawsuit. Miller contends that Holland's gun was only "nicked" - damage that shouldn't have disabled it. An attorney for Glock didn't return repeated calls seeking comment. Glock is one of the best-selling handguns in the nation and is often the standard gun for law enforcement agencies, including Omaha police. Dan Brado, a weapons expert with the Omaha Police Department's crime laboratory, said no gun is indestructible. Any gun can be disabled if hit in the right place, he said. Holland, now an instructor at Missouri Western State College in St. Joseph, has testified about his scramble to apprehend the robbers without his gun - an effort that earned him national officer of the year honors. After being ordered to hand over his gun and handcuff himself, Holland whipped one of the robbers with handcuffs and struck him in the sternum. The officer drew his gun and was kneeling over the robber when he spotted a second robber entering the bank. Holland, who was working security at the bank, pointed his gun at the second robber. The two fired simultaneously, and bullets hit Holland's gun and his chest, under his heart. Holland tried to fire again, but nothing came out. So he picked up the first robber and used him as a shield until he could get close enough to tackle the second robber. The officer and the two robbers ended up in a pile, with one of the robbers screaming at the other one: "Kill him! Just kill him!" Holland overpowered the two and took control. "I reached down, grabbed the Glock and put it to the second party's head and pulled the trigger," Holland has said. "Nothing happened." One of the men escaped but was arrested later. Both are serving lengthy prison sentences. ©2004 Omaha World-Herald __________________ *The flag represents a living country and is itself considered a living thing.* *The only criminal class native to the United States is Congress.* -->

04-10-2004, 10:12 AM	#2
inplanotx Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 8,897	Glad I don't own one! Nice read, Marlin! Let's see what Glock comes up with! __________________

04-10-2004, 11:07 AM	#5
Marlin TFF Admin Staff Chief Counselor Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: At SouthernMoss' side forever! Contributor Posts: 13,853	No trouble, sorry. Just a long rusty needle poking a little fun. Delighted you're here and posting. If you were in trouble the public wouldn't know about it...................... __________________ *The flag represents a living country and is itself considered a living thing.* *The only criminal class native to the United States is Congress.*

04-10-2004, 06:22 PM	#14
Remington597 Former Guest Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 3,201	Did the officer have a backup pistol, like a Kel Tec 32? ,etc. If I was on duty, I would not go on patrol without a backup pistol. Not in todays world. Last edited by Remington597; 04-10-2004 at 06:24 PM..

04-10-2004, 08:03 PM	#15
Marlin TFF Admin Staff Chief Counselor Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: At SouthernMoss' side forever! Contributor Posts: 13,853	When I was on the street about a hundred years ago, I carried a S&W Model 15, Combat Masterpiece as my service weapon and a model 36 in an ankle holster for back-up. At a later date, I started carrying a Browning Hi-Power 9mm for my service weapon but still the .38 stubby on the ankle. You can rest assured that both were cleaned daily, especially the 36 to prevent damage from sweat on the legs. __________________ *The flag represents a living country and is itself considered a living thing.* *The only criminal class native to the United States is Congress.*

04-10-2004, 10:46 AM	#3
glocknut Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: THE FORUM MASCOTT... Posts: 12,482	I'll bet you just could'nt wait to post that story..... The accusations made by that scum sucking lawyer are'nt worth responding to...... It just goes to show that cops are people too. They can blame whoever for whatever and find a lawyer to file a frivilious lawsuit just as easy as the next guy..... Marlin, you've pretty much sealed to deal on me EVER buying a 1911. I'm just spitefull enough to skip the whole 1911 thing over all the "serious type" of ribbing on Glocks. I was leaning towards a sig p220, and that just tipped me over the edge..... The out of the box 220 is a whole lot more gun than I'll ever get out of a $900 springfield 1911...... mike

04-10-2004, 10:56 AM	#4
glocknut Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: THE FORUM MASCOTT... Posts: 12,482	PS you scared the **** outta me with that thread title..... Thought I was in trouble again.. mike

04-10-2004, 12:32 PM	#7
gpostal Former Guest Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 4,552	Well said plano Cut off your nose to spite your face glocknut ,teach us all a real lesson ,spend 900.00 on six hi-point .45’s every time one jams you can draw another but you are probably correct in your lawsuit analysis ,I am sure a well placed bullet could disable any weapon

04-10-2004, 04:39 PM	#9
Remington597 Former Guest Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 3,201	The key questions are this: 1. How well maintained was the firearm? 2. How often did the officer clean said firearm? 3. Was the firearm properly cleaned? 4. Was he using the correct ammunition? 5. Was the firearm customized with unathorized accessories of any kind that are incompatible with Glock authorized parts? These questions seem moronic to us, since we are firearms enthusiasts and this is second nature to us. , but you would be surprised how many law enforcement officers don't even know how to take apart their gun, much less clean it regularly.

04-10-2004, 06:03 PM	#12
Remington597 Former Guest Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 3,201	An excellent point Glocknut.!! Very well said!

04-12-2004, 02:55 PM	#16
Nole V.I.P. Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Toronto, ON- Canada Posts: 224	Marlin you beat me to the question of where was is secondary weapon? If i was a cop i would have 2 just makes since to me. But this man must be comemded for his act fo bravery taking 2 perps down without a gun. Thats a man with a will to survive.