Writer Looking For Info

[sjanssens]

I'm looking for links and technical information on firearms. Normally I wouldn't resort to a message board for this but I'm completely ignorant when it comes to firearms. It's hard to look up details for guns that you don't know exist.

The main character of this story is a modern day incarnation of Cupid who uses firearms instead of arrows. Naturally, he employs a wide variety of firearms in different situations. I'm looking for info on submachine guns and rates of fire, as well as information on handguns and sniper rifles. Hopefully this information will include notes on what use each gun was designed or is particularly suited/unsuited for. This story isn't about the guns. I'm mainly trying to avoid writing something that causes someone to say that gun can't do that, or that's a really bad choice of firearm for what he's using it for.

Thanks in advance.

[SouthernMoss]

Welcome to TFF, Sjanssens. Do the bullets from your modern-day Cupid's guns cause the same effect as Cupid's arrows did in the original version?

[sjanssens]

Yes. In the myths Cupid used golden arrows to inspire love and lead arrows to impede it. It's the same Cupid, he's just kept up with the times.

[CountryGunsmith]

Well, I'd imagine that if this modern-day Cupid lit up with, say, a Maremont M60 that would be a whooooooolllllle lot of lovin'!

[sjanssens]

oh, and in the story he's a young man as in the original version of the myths, not the Hallmark style cherub which came later.

[rosierita]

LOL! @ cgs!

[1952Sniper]

I couldn't see why Cupid would possibly need a submachine gun.

[inplanotx]

Just think of all the love he could dish out with a MG-42!!!!! LMAO!

By the way, welcome sjannsens!

[armedandsafe]

Welcome to THE Forum, sjanssens.

Well, he is going to need a small, easily concealed piece for everyday wander-about-town use. Two magazines, of course. One loaded with gold and one with lead. (What would copper bullets do? Create "Tarnished Love?" )

He will need a good long-range sniper rifle, for those times when he needs to reach out and touch someone from a distance.

Then he will need a REALLY big-bore, for those tough cases, where someone just REFUSES to recognise love.

If he were to ever use a machine gun, he will bring back the Sixties. Let's all hear it for free love!

Pops

[pickenup]

sjanssens,

There are too many to list, so.........

One place you might want to start looking for technical info is, on the manufacturers web sites. A couple of places to look and see what is available is the “GunBroker” and “Auction Arms” gun auction sites. Just type “sniper” or “machine gun” or whatever, into their search engine. This should at least get you started. Or a Google search for same.

You are right, it will give your story MUCH more credence if you know what you are talking about, when you mention a certain firearm. There are quite a few here that love to pick apart movies for guns doing things that we KNOW they can not do. Kudos to you for wanting to do the research.

[inplanotx]

Pickenup wrote:

There are quite a few here that love to pick apart movies for guns doing things that we KNOW they can not do.

Y'all mean to tell me that I can't light my cigar offn that propane powered Quad 50 that doesn't have a link belt and never runs outa ammo? Boy, what a let down.........

[Woodman]

Cupid would use Olympic Competition firearms..
Cupid would use special barrels that impart fantastic rates of spin upon the "love bullet (or projectile; or how about "love pill")

This pill would vaporive upon hitting the target; indeed, it is spinning so fast, it just barely can hold itself together. Love holds it together.

Read about the Sig 210; it's accuracy is legendary.
It sold for about $1200, was discontinued, and is now nearly double.

Read "Unintended Consequences" by John Ross for some excellent backround info into the "gun culture". You can skim the "soap opera - sex" parts, but the gun info is excellent.

Email me for any links you want.

[Woodman]

Buddy up with "varmint" hunters who can take out a squirrel at 1000 yards (that's over half a mile!) and start picking their brains, hang around them, pick up the lingo and get an intimate idea of what they are shooting, and all the factors going through their minds when preparing and executing such long shots.

You may have to do a bit of traveling, buy some ammo (and beer, and steaks ).

Three months, and you'll have most of the info you need.

[Nole]

what if cupid missed his target then that would mess up the whole continum. Man think of the reprocussions.(SP?)

[sjanssens]

Thanks for the responses.

1952sniper: I've written the scene that was to use the machine gun, and you're right it was gratuitous. That scene has been changed.

Pops: Good idea about the two magazines. I don't know if I would have thought of that. That's precisely the type of thing I'm looking for: details that are obvious to one familiar with guns but not a detail that's likely to come up in research.

pickenup: I went to those auction sites and they did give me a much better idea of what's out there. And while it does allow me to look up some information I'm afraid what I need is much more basic.

What would really help is a beginner's guide to firearms that covers amazingly basic things. such as:

I know what a revolver is, but is there a term for a handgun that uses magazines? Are there any tradeoffs between the two in things such as accuracy or range? Does wind and/or rain have much affect on a bullet at handgun ranges?

Is there a general range limit for a handgun? Obviously the range will differ by model, but is there a safe range that won't raise any eyebrows? I don't plan on having much long range use of a handgun, but I've written a scene where the range is about 50 yards (angled downwards). The story acknowledges that it's far, but doable. Is this ok or should it be increased or decreased?

This is the extent of my ignorance: It's my understanding that a revolver turns and then fires so that a revolver with only one round that's placed in line with the barrel will not fire as the round will be moved out of position. Is this, in fact, correct? A handgun that takes magazines (I really hope there's a term for that) stores a round in the chamber. Is that round loaded specially (say from the top or somehting) or is the magazine filled and inserted (is there a term for that?), the gun cocked, then the magazine removed and a new bullet added? How is the round in the chamber removed? (I'm assuming from the top).

Obviously in this story stopping power isn't an issue, how would that affect the choice of caliber? How does the caliber of a bullet affect its accuracy and range for a handgun.

None of the ranges in the story are likely to exceed one or two hundred yards. At that range is there much difference between choice rifle or sniper rifle? If so, what are the considerations knowing that stopping power is not a factor? Is there a range that someone would roll their eyes because it was too short for a rifle/sniper rifle?

And, of course, in all these things I'm looking for _practical_ values. I'm not sure how much stock I should put into the values I find on manufacture sites and other web sites. Are the numbers likely to be possible only under certain conditions or usable for real world conditions?

How badly did I mangle the terminology?


I don't expect anyone here to answer all these questions for me (although it would be nice . Before I write the second draft, I'll probably stop in a gun shop to verify things. I just feel bad about taking up their time so the more I know before hand, the better.


Cheers and thanks.

[offeror]

I see you know about as much about guns as the average American, so don't feel too bad.

You can call a gun that takes a magazine a "semi-auto" or a pistol. You can also decide what brand of semi-auto is being carried and refer to it by brand, as a "Glock" or whatever.

A semi-auto has a chamber behind the barrel which remains empty when the mag is loaded until you rack the slide. When you draw back the slide and let it fly forward, the first round of the mag is peeled off the top of the mag and loaded into the chamber. As each round is fired, in the blink of an eye that slide is forced back again, the empty shell is extracted from the chamber and flies out, and the next round is loaded into the chamber, all at once. When the last round is fired, of course, the slide goes back, the last empty casing is ejected, and the slide often locks back (open) to indicate the gun is empty.

Racking the slide only makes sense when the first round is loaded (or to clear a jam). If you don't fire the gun, racking the slide AGAIN ejects a full round and loads another full round. In fact, you can empty a semi-auto this way without firing it. Just keep racking the slide until all the rounds are gone from the mag and chamber.

When you take the mag out of a semi-auto, it may therefore still have a live round in the chamber. The slide must be racked to eject any round that is still in the gun, even after the mag has been removed.

A revolver can be fired two ways. If you cock the hammer back with your thumb, the round in line with the barrel WILL be struck. If you leave the hammer forward and pull the trigger, then what you said is true -- the cylinder will turn and the adjacent round will be moved into position and struck by the firing pin. By the way, a revolver has no safety lever to click on or off. Semi-autos, which often have lighter trigger pulls, have safety levers sometimes, but not always. Revolvers virtually never have safety levers.

A handgun is best used from close up to 50 yards or less for realism unless it is equipped with an extra-long barrel and maybe a shoulder stock. Even policemen, according to statistics, miss what they aim at 75% of the time with a handgun. A shotgun is out to 75 yards, a little more with a long barrel. A light carbine is out to 200-300 yards or a bit more. Standard rifles can hit out to 300-500 yards, give or take, so nothing you describe couldn't be handled by any rifle or carbine, really. A sniper rifle is for those Hollywood shots out to 1000. If you want a really long shot, check out the movie QUIGLEY DOWN UNDER and learn about rifles legendary for distance, or consider going to a modern heavy rifle like the .50 BMG caliber Barrett, which might be a very funny image for a long-range hit.

By the way, if you are looking for dramatic excuses for a bullet to be deflected, things like wind are not your major issues. A decent shooter will most often hit his intended target despite the wind at handgun distances, and a shot may well still hit its target in a good wind out to 100 to 200 yards with a rifle. Wind does have an effect and it is important to adjust -- if you're a sniper or in competition. But if, and I say if, you're looking for a clear and obvious reason for a bullet to miss, a pane of glass or some shrubbery is a far better reason for a bullet to miss its target even at close range. You may recall some video of snipers trying to shoot perpetrators holding hostages through the glass doors of a bank or supermarket, and missing even with scoped sniper rifles. Glass, including car windows, can have significant effects on a bullet's path as it passes through. And as I said, branches certainly can too -- even thin ones.

These are rules of thumb only. Opinions will differ as to the useful distance of each type, but if you want to minimize the groans I'd stay well within reasonable limits, even for carefully aimed shots, especially on handguns, which are traditionally overrated for distance by Hollywood.

I was wondering what substance you make the bullets out of if Cupid wants to grant somebody just a great one-night stand. Might need another magazine of those... color coded of course....

[armedandsafe]

Here are some answers. Some of them will elicit responses from others here as they tell me I am full of it.

Originally Posted by sjanssens

Thanks for the responses.

What would really help is a beginner's guide to firearms that covers amazingly basic things. such as:

I know what a revolver is, but is there a term for a handgun that uses magazines? Are there any tradeoffs between the two in things such as accuracy or range? Does wind and/or rain have much affect on a bullet at handgun ranges?
A handgun which uses magazines is generally referred to as a pistol. The range and accuracy comparison between the two mechanisms is very similar, assuming you are comparing the same cartridge in each. Wind can have an effect on a bullet, even at handgun ranges, but rain doesn't affect a bullet's flight significantly. The effect of wind on the point of impact will not be significant until you get out beyond 25 yards or so, or, unless you are operating in a hurricane.

Is there a general range limit for a handgun? Obviously the range will differ by model, but is there a safe range that won't raise any eyebrows? I don't plan on having much long range use of a handgun, but I've written a scene where the range is about 50 yards (angled downwards). The story acknowledges that it's far, but doable. Is this ok or should it be increased or decreased?
Fifty yards is within the effective range of any handgun, if the shooter is an expert marksman. With a .22, one would need a solid rest to brace against (never let the barrel of the piece rest on anything) but a .38 or .357 and above would make that a doable shot.

This is the extent of my ignorance: It's my understanding that a revolver turns and then fires so that a revolver with only one round that's placed in line with the barrel will not fire as the round will be moved out of position. Is this, in fact, correct? A handgun that takes magazines (I really hope there's a term for that) stores a round in the chamber. Is that round loaded specially (say from the top or somehting) or is the magazine filled and inserted (is there a term for that?), the gun cocked, then the magazine removed and a new bullet added? How is the round in the chamber removed? (I'm assuming from the top).
You have the basic idea of how a revolver works correct. The cylinder of the revolver is the chamber(s.)A magazine holds more than one cartridge and is inserted from the bottom of the pistol. The action is then worked (the slide is pulled back and then allowed to return to battery under its own power) to pick up a cartridge and insert it into the chamber. A snippet of the energy from the firing of the cartridge is used to force the slide back and pickup another cartridge.

Obviously in this story stopping power isn't an issue, how would that affect the choice of caliber? How does the caliber of a bullet affect its accuracy and range for a handgun.
In this case the caliber of the cartridge would primarily affect the distance at which it would be practical to take on a target. Caliber has no effect on accuracy, in general. The larger the caliber, the greater the effective range. (Now, that statement is going to raise so many howls of protest from this crowd, I'm going to put on my asbestos undies.) Accuracy is repeatability. Nothing else. Therefore, the accuracy of a gun is determined by how well the gun and ammunition is manufactured. A cheap, sloppy gun will not let the bullet leave the barrel the same way, one shot to the next. A gun manufactured to tight tolerances, with ammunition manufactured to tight tolerances, operated by an expert marksman, will be very accurate.

None of the ranges in the story are likely to exceed one or two hundred yards. At that range is there much difference between choice rifle or sniper rifle? If so, what are the considerations knowing that stopping power is not a factor? Is there a range that someone would roll their eyes because it was too short for a rifle/sniper rifle?
Short range is not a factor for a sniper rifle. There are some problems with parallax at shorter ranges, but these would have been already noted by the shooter and adjustments in sighting would take that into consideration. The primary problem might be that sniper rifles tend to be bigger, heavier, bulkier and MUCH more obvious and "attention getting" than a regular hunting rifle. Up to 200 yards, any decent hunting rifle would suffice. A scope (telescopic sight) is generally preferred for distances beyond 100 yards, but I have shot 1000 yard competition with peep sights. (I had eyes, in those days.)

And, of course, in all these things I'm looking for _practical_ values. I'm not sure how much stock I should put into the values I find on manufacture sites and other web sites. Are the numbers likely to be possible only under certain conditions or usable for real world conditions?
For "real world" conditions, wander about the hunting sites. They have to be realistic when relating to real world conditions such as weather, light and temperature.

How badly did I mangle the terminology?
You did surprisingly well. Good job.

I don't expect anyone here to answer all these questions for me (although it would be nice . Before I write the second draft, I'll probably stop in a gun shop to verify things. I just feel bad about taking up their time so the more I know before hand, the better.
The sales people in a small to medium gun shop (not a Wally or Kfart) love to educate someone who doesn't know about guns and IS WILLING TO ADMIT IT. We love it. We crave it. Go out and give someone a fix today. Pick a shop with a range attached and you will get an education and a chance to shoot.

Cheers and thanks.

[kingjoey]

How about a story where Cupid gets his guns banned then confiscated and is put out to pasture because of cloning and gay marriage Very up-to-date

[Woodman]

Here are some links to the internal workings, animated:

http://www.m1911.org/images/full_anim.gif
http://www.m1911.org/images/searanim2.gif
http://www.m1911.org/images/searanim.gif

The 50 yard shot? My .22LR Browning with a 5'5" barrel can make it.
Some guys on this forum could place all ten shots in the mag in a 2-4" group with it, standing freely.

The longer barrel gives you a longer "sight radius", that is, the distance between the front and rear sites.

This business about bullet spin? The barrel has helix grooves in it, to make a bullet spin. If a small, delicate bullet was spinning too fast when exiting the barrel, gravity might make to yank it apart in mid flight.

You'd get it if you read that book, "Unintended Consequences". I could probably find the few pages you'd have to read.

So the point it, love holds these bullets together. No one else can use them. If they try, the bullets vaporize immediately after leaving the barrel.

HOWEVER, if some mischievous person got a hold of some, they would work only if the barrel way pressed against the intended target, as they vaporize immediately upon leaving the barrel.

Just some pretty far-out there esoteric.

[Crpdeth]

Am I the only one that aint buying this?

[22WRF]

Originally Posted by Crpdeth

Am I the only one that aint buying this?

NOPE your not the only one

[glocknut]

Originally Posted by Crpdeth

Am I the only one that aint buying this?

I ain't buyin it either. Sound like a load of **** to me.......

It concerns me a little bit how eager most folks on this board are to "assist" a newbie asking for very strange assistance and/or answers....

mike
gn

[Remington597]

I am trying to get a sense for the thread originator's writing style based on his correspondence herein and also whether this "cupid" is metaphorically using firearms or is actually using them.
These things will become more evident as the thread progresses. I will continue to study it. As of this time, the thread originator's profile is empty , so there are no clues of significance yet.

[glocknut]

Originally Posted by Remington597

I am trying to get a sense for the thread originator's writing style based on his correspondence herein and also whether this "cupid" is metaphorically using firearms or is actually using them.
These things will become more evident as the thread progresses. I will continue to study it. As of this time, the thread originator's profile is empty , so there are no clues of significance yet.

i agree.....

[sjanssens]

Yowza! Thanks so much for all the info.

offerer: Excellent descriptions. I would have thought 'pistol' to be synonymous with 'handgun'. Would it be incorrect to call a revolver a pistol?

armedandsafe: Excellent suggestion about the range. Actually firing gun would probably make it easier to describe. Generally the things I write about aren't possible or practical to do so it didn't occur to me. I found this list (http://www.interlakesporting.org/ranges.htm) of ranges in my (close to your) area. (My dog came from Moses Lake.) Are you familiar with and could recommend any of them?

Kingjoey: Heh, maybe in a sequel.

Woodman: Great images and the perfect accompaniment to offerer's post. The way it works in my story is that the guns and bullets are normal it's when Cupid uses them they work differently. That is, Cupid could take your loaded pistol from your hands and shoot you with it and even though it's a normal gun and normal ammunition, it wouldn't act like such because he was the one using them. Although your bullets are unlikely to be made of gold. He'll proably get those from Vulcan. Of course it's still the first draft so everything is subject to change.

Crpdeth: I'm not selling anything so no purchase necessary

glocknut: I'm sure my questions do indeed sound strange to those here. All the sources of gun information that I've been able to find assume that the reader already has a rudimentary knowledge of guns. As should be obvious, I have none. The only gun I've ever fired was a .22 rifle 20 years ago in scouts.

Remington597: "whether this "cupid" is metaphorically using firearms or is actually using them."

That's a rather interesting question. I suppose the answer depends on whether one thinks the traditional cupid literally or metaphorically uses a bow. In a sense it's literal in that my character uses actual guns and actual ammunition but at the same time it's metaphorical in that there's no physical damage done to the target. I'm not certain I'm satisfied with that answer, I'll have to think about it some more. Thanks for the question.

As for a profile my website is www.scottj.net where you can read my amazingly lame bio (http://www.scottj.net/bio.asp)

I post raw and unedited snippets of the stories I'm working on while they're in first draft. There probably won't be any snippets from this story with guns in them because I deliberately avoid posting key moments and any time Cupid (Eros in the story) uses a gun is likely to be a key moment. The snippets are also chosen so that they don't give away the plot.


Cheers