key hole in the target - The Firearms Forum

358 winchester · 07-09-2004, 05:46 PM

Well I have now done something that I have heard about but never paid attention to. I have a load that is key holign at fifty yards. WHY?
Savage model 24 223 over 20 ga. (turkey gun). I tried some new "ON SALE"
ammo.
Olympic ammunntion 5.56 x 45 (223) ss 109 62grs
this is the only ammo I have ever had to key hole the target.
would one of you wizards please expline this to me?
is the bullet to heavy for this gun?
I do not know what the twist rate is but the 55grs shoot fine and so do the 52grs bullets.
Ron
bluegill@outdrs.net

mtnboomer · 07-09-2004, 07:11 PM

I would say that the rifling twist is too fast for the bullet weight. They are being overstablized (spun too fast) and it is causing them to wobble downrange. Stay with 55-gr and lighter.

Crpdeth · 07-09-2004, 09:45 PM

Ron:

All I can really tell you, is that I have been researching .223/5.56 ammo recently, and the Olympic SS109's (M193) (red and white box right?) are falling way low on the list...Most of the AR shooters actually prefer Wolf ammo over this stuff.

Unfortunatly, I personally have several hundred rounds of this crap too, I guess I'll use it when I feel the need to just go blasting.

Try some Lake City XM193, I bet your problem will go away.

~Crpdeth

mtnboomer · 07-10-2004, 12:29 AM

I overlooked the Olympic part of your post. I have heard many bad things about the Olympic .223 on other boards. They may even be out of balance, no one really seems to know.

knitepoet · 07-11-2004, 08:48 AM

358, If you check, I'm willing to bet your barrel has a 1:12" twist. The ss109 with it's steel core is longer than even standard 62gr 223 bullets. Most barrels made for the 109 ammo has a 1:9" twist. I used to keep a target I shot with a FNC (that had a 1:12" barrel) I used to own and ss109 ammo. decent group @ 50 and ALL were pretty keyholes.
Paul
edited to add: This chart is the reccomended twist rates for .224 barrels from Shilen's website http://www.shilen.com/calibers.htm
224 CF 8" For bullets heavier than 70 gr.
9" For bullets up to 70 gr.
12" For bullets up to 63 gr.
14" For bullets up to 55 gr.
15"* For bullets up to 55 gr. driven 4,100 fps or more
16"* For bullets up to 55 gr. driven 4,300 fps or more
(also edited for typos)

07-09-2004, 05:46 PM	#1
358 winchester TFF Admin Staff Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Pensacola Fl. area Posts: 7,335	key hole in the target Well I have now done something that I have heard about but never paid attention to. I have a load that is key holign at fifty yards. WHY? Savage model 24 223 over 20 ga. (turkey gun). I tried some new "ON SALE" ammo. Olympic ammunntion 5.56 x 45 (223) ss 109 62grs this is the only ammo I have ever had to key hole the target. would one of you wizards please expline this to me? is the bullet to heavy for this gun? I do not know what the twist rate is but the 55grs shoot fine and so do the 52grs bullets. Ron bluegill@outdrs.net __________________ Administrator & Owner RangeDay.com Proud, White, Heterosexual, Gun Owning, Southern American, Christian. Any question about where I stand? -->

07-09-2004, 07:11 PM	#2
mtnboomer Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Oklahoma by birth. America by the grace of God. Posts: 649	Re: key hole in the target I would say that the rifling twist is too fast for the bullet weight. They are being overstablized (spun too fast) and it is causing them to wobble downrange. Stay with 55-gr and lighter. __________________ The cost of freedom, is eternal vigilance. The cost of bondage, is your life. - mtnboomer Support the Second Amendment - Join the NRA! > http://www.nra.org < Oklahoma State - #1 - GO POKES!

07-09-2004, 09:45 PM	#3
Crpdeth Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Location: Location Contributor Posts: 8,247	Re: key hole in the target Ron: All I can really tell you, is that I have been researching .223/5.56 ammo recently, and the Olympic SS109's (M193) (red and white box right?) are falling way low on the list...Most of the AR shooters actually prefer Wolf ammo over this stuff. Unfortunatly, I personally have several hundred rounds of this crap too, I guess I'll use it when I feel the need to just go blasting. Try some Lake City XM193, I bet your problem will go away. ~Crpdeth __________________ Our greatest pretenses are built up not to hide the evil and the ugly in us, but our emptiness. The hardest thing to hide is something that is not there. ~Eric Hoffer Last edited by Crpdeth; 07-09-2004 at 09:48 PM..

07-10-2004, 12:29 AM	#4
mtnboomer Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Oklahoma by birth. America by the grace of God. Posts: 649	Re: key hole in the target I overlooked the Olympic part of your post. I have heard many bad things about the Olympic .223 on other boards. They may even be out of balance, no one really seems to know. __________________ The cost of freedom, is eternal vigilance. The cost of bondage, is your life. - mtnboomer Support the Second Amendment - Join the NRA! > http://www.nra.org < Oklahoma State - #1 - GO POKES!

07-11-2004, 08:48 AM	#5
knitepoet V.I.P. Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Alabama Posts: 70	Re: key hole in the target 358, If you check, I'm willing to bet your barrel has a 1:12" twist. The ss109 with it's steel core is longer than even standard 62gr 223 bullets. Most barrels made for the 109 ammo has a 1:9" twist. I used to keep a target I shot with a FNC (that had a 1:12" barrel) I used to own and ss109 ammo. decent group @ 50 and ALL were pretty keyholes. Paul edited to add: This chart is the reccomended twist rates for .224 barrels from Shilen's website http://www.shilen.com/calibers.htm 224 CF 8" For bullets heavier than 70 gr. 9" For bullets up to 70 gr. 12" For bullets up to 63 gr. 14" For bullets up to 55 gr. 15"* For bullets up to 55 gr. driven 4,100 fps or more 16"* For bullets up to 55 gr. driven 4,300 fps or more (also edited for typos) __________________ "Good shooting will make up for poor gear, but superior gear will not make up for poor shooting" - Jeff Cooper American Rimfire Group ARG Last edited by knitepoet; 07-11-2004 at 08:55 AM..