Poll - Rock Island 1911s

[johnston3407]

I'm so glad to see this thread, and I will read every post. I have been handling the R.I.A. and the Springfield and they FEEL great but I want to hear from someone who has fired them, OFTEN. Keep it up, please.

[smallblock]

Buy American ,and spend some $. you get what you pay for. I can't believe a kimber fell apart....

[stash247]

Originally Posted by smallblock

Buy American ,and spend some $. you get what you pay for. I can't believe a kimber fell apart....

They could'a made ONE bad gun, but not many, considering the general opinion of them, on this board, and others.
Colt went thru a period when tolerance errors could be heard, not just measured, but have 'cleaned up their act' in the last seven to ten years, to put themselves pretty much in the place the were, in the '20's, for quality.
Price is not the dividing line.
While I'm not a great fan of Chinese industry, I will tell you that five or six of the Norinco 1911 pattern pistols found their way to Lackland AFB's gunshop, in the early '80's, where they were pretty rigorously examined, and tested.
The guy who ran the place, a .45 guy, Tom Kryzmr Pronounced like Kirshmer), said the metallurgy, heat treat, and dimension, were good as commercial Colt production; only the finish was lacking.
He's pretty well an authority, in the business for over thirty years, then, with exposure to stuff most of us only can dream about!
With the availability of high quality, CNC machinery, world wide, price is determined more by the cost of labor, than anything else! Quality, with a minimum of training on such equipment, is a relative constant.

[sorral]

I had concidered a Philipino made gun, but I talked to a local gunsmith and my shooting instructor ( a retired gun smith) and they advised me not to buy one. They say they have seen that the metal used is inferior and both had seen problems because of this. We shoot 100-400 rounds a week in practicing for IDPA and the longevity was the key.

[Kimber Man]

not a bad gun for the price you pay for it.

[boni]

Originally Posted by mtnboomer

While I've never handled or shot a RIA 1911, I do have a Shooter's Arms Manufacturing (SAM) 1911 - also made in the Phillipines.

actually, gun smiths here prefer to have the SAM 1911 rather than the rock island btw i'm from the Philippines. i own a armscor 1911 no modification i just had the barrel and the ramp throat it'll turn 2 years old this july and i have fired about 6000 rounds already and it didnt let me down. this is just my observation here in our place but i see a lot of para-ordnance owners bring their cracked slides to the gun smiths than armscor or SAM.

[boni]

btw 1911 spring field armory here costs about $2800 so really it cannot be compared to the rock island.

[1911Kid]

I beleive that for just a fun cheap plinking pistol a Rock Island is decent. However for a pistol that is to take constant abuse or carry I wouldn't even consider it.

You can't go wrong with a 1911
Kid

[LDBennett]

Here's my story on the Rock Island 1911.

http://www.thefirearmsforum.com/showthread.php?t=33913

There are several other of my posts on this gun on this site in the last couple of months.

The bottom line is that it is an adequate 1911. It can be made tremendously better with race internals (trigger, hammer, sear disconnector, recoil spring grip safety, grips, barrel bushing, group gripper, and a few more). If you want a project the RI is it. If you just want a 1911 and still have a fat wallet the RI is it. Mine shoots 25 shots into a 2 inch group at 50 feet off the bench except for the first shot flyers that shoot about two inches high. I think I got that fixed as well but haven't got to the range to prove it. The accuracy is due to a tight lockup from the match bushing and the Group Gripper recoil spring guide that force the barrel into the slide locking lugs with a sturdy spring. I have used the Group Gripper with a fitted match bushing before and it flat works reducing group size by a measured 30% plus.

The RI is made out of good material, apparently properly heat treated. While it is not an exact Mil Spec replica, the parts are compatible with each other. That means most of the race parts need to be fitted but do work well once fitted.

I'd put my finished RI against any "custom shop" versions in the $1000 price class for accuracy (once i get the first shot problem under control) and I certainly don't have even a $1000 in mine. I like Colts, S&W, Sig, etc. because they are made to such good standards and have those guns in my collection but it is refreshing to be able to take a bottom feeder 1911 and make it into a fine shooting gun. I indeed did make a silk purse out of a sow's ear! Well, almost.

LDBennett

[DamnYankee]

I own a RIA 1911 and have put several hundred rounds through it with NO problems of any kind. I have fired all kinds of ammo from the cheap aluminum case Blazer to some of the higher end stuff like Federal, hollow points to conical and even +P and have never had a jam. I am also not the best a cleaning between shooting sessions, might go 2 or 3 times to the range before I do a proper cleaning, and still no problems with the RIA. While it is not the best gun on the market it is certainly a long ways from being at the bottom. It's a very good value and I wouldn't hesitate to carry it. Anyone that tries to tell you that cost has a direct relation to quality is someone you shouldn't listen to.

[LDBennett]

The cost difference between the "better" 1911's and the RI is the method of manufacture and the cost of the labor to make the gun. The RI, at least in my inspections, appears to NOT be forged as are the "better" guns, but cast(???). I can tell you whatever process used makes for hard parts. I see no disadvantage to the RI frame or slide, no matter that it may not be forged. Truth be known some of the 'better" 1911's don't have forged frames either. As for the labor, it is Philippine labor and is certainly a lot cheaper than US labor union worker's rates. To me the rip off 1911's are not the RI's but the ones with established names that are either piece part made abroad or even completely made abroad, stamped with an established name, priced high, and sold as home brew guns.

The RI is value: The most gun for the least amount of money, that still does the job. Mine is perfect as a frame for my Marvel Precision Unit One 22LR conversion. But it turns out it shoots very well indeed (close to one inch group averages at 50 feet) as a 45ACP when subjected to some drop on or in parts like the Dwyer group Gripper, a fitted barrel bushing, and Bo-Mar sights. By choice not necessity I did replace all the trigger/hammer/safety parts with match parts to make the frame all it could be.

Choosing one 1911 over another with no price consideration is about the fit and finish. Ceratinly the "better" 1911's look better but the RI looks no worse than a WWII Colt version and it shoots well too.

LDBennett

[mo jenkins]

I have to agree with polish and a few others that RIA's may lack snob appeal but are actually pretty decent(at least the ones manufactured in the last couple of years). I don't know what has happened recently, but the quality took a step up and mine is a VERY good gun. I say this having owned numerous 1911A1's and variants over the past 30 years.

When I was younger(before I had kids), I wouldn't have lowered myself to shooting anything but a Colt revolver and was equally discerning in my choice of autos.

I was a closed-minded fool with far too much money...(now I'm a much wiser man with no money at all!)

Anyway, whether one would depend on an RIA as a primary carry weapon is a matter of personal choice. I am probably going to do a little work on mine and put another 2000 rds through it before I would consider it to be a battle-worthy weapon. Until it has a malf, I will have nothing but respect for mine.

My favorite 1911A1 is a Griffon Commander. Made on the OLD "Republic of South Africa." I picked it up early this spring excellent condition, $350 O.T.D. It is a very well made piece and as battle-worthy as any 1911 at any price.

I guess it all depends on personal taste and how much patience and shopping around you're willing to do... If you keep an open mind, you just might find something that will suit your purposes extremely well and cost less than the original item that you had wanted in the first place. Take a look at the Witness P 45's. Better yet, shoot a few hundered rounds through one and see what you think.

just my .02...

your buddy,
mo jenkins

[stash247]

Mo makes several excellent points, not the least of which, is starting with a gun of good material,and competent design.
The Griffon he speaks of is "all that", and he stole it, at present market prices, but one would have to know the market, and the goods, to make a deal like that, at a gunshow, or similar; good on you, Mo!
A friend of mine called me, middle of the afternoon, with a .45 question, having seen a gun in a pawnshop, three states away. A 'double action', 1911 pattern pistol, stamped "Detonics, Seattle, Wa" in Stainless Steel, and asked about price; it was offered at $300 and my response was short; "buy it" , and "I'd pay $350, and quickly, for the arm"; a day or two later, it turned up at my shop, with my friend, and I did! It was an 'ODI Viking Combat', bur roll marked with a 'stolen', according to Robbie Barkman, rollstamp, about the time of their move, from Seattle, to Arizona.
Never a Detonics gun, the pistol was and is a 'parts gun', out of the ODI operation, apparently roll marked with a Detonics stamp, to dodge the Federal Excise Tax of 11%, on production!
The Frame is investment cast, with all the millwork Louis Seecamp used to do, cast into the right side, and only, to my knowledge, was ODI licenced to do this! A 'Commander' Sized pistol, with not only the best in design, but 'accessories', as well, and in Stainless!
True enough, it is not what it claims to be, but, will roll a 5 gallon pail, at 200yds, until ammo runs out, for me, and others.
I ended up buying it, three states away, from a friend of a friend.
I'm a player, with no dog in the fight, but know the market, petty good.
Feller calls me and asks,"Do I want to buy a 1911, too cheap, but aparently functional, there is but one answer, and he already knew it, "Yes,you bet, add fuel onto the price, and I'l pay for all. Few I have bought had any serious 'issues', and, if one understands 'how they run', are not a real problem, to put 'right'.
I will offer that the really tiny guns offer many more challenges, due to their much reduced 'cycle time', a thing never considered in the original JMB design, but these, too, can be made to run at 100%, with some additional effort.
I own a lot of 1911's, and nearly all were, at some point, 'problem children', for a prior owner; none that I own are less than 100% reliable, today. Most of the 'problems' were operator, or magazine, related!
RIA guns, if fed with good mags, ought to conform to the model, like any other.

[patrol]

If the money is an issue a 1911 that is equiped with the same GI Milspec type parts is a Charles Daley 1911 and they are very good shooters and reliable for also under $500. Personally though Id go with a Milspec Springfield and pay the extra 100.

[patrol]

Originally Posted by hank_612

you can pick a up a springer gi for about 375. I think thats a lot better value.

Id like to know where you saw a Springfield Armory 1911 of any model for that price new or used. Maybe back in 1991 you could get one used for $375.

[drobs]

I'm up to around 1800 rds through my RIA. Not one issue or malfunction yet. I'd go so far as to say this Gun is AK47 reliable. I had an ambi-safety added (I'm lefty) and had the hammer spur trimmed a hair that removed all the hammer bite. It's my go to gun. No CCW here in IL but it went from my bedside gun to my truck gun.


Picked up a Kimber TLE that's at the Gunsmith having an ambi-safety added.

[torpedoman]

the 1911 brings out the weirdness in people. statements like" the ones i have examened did'nt look to good" "they are too cheap to be any good" the rock island i OWN and Shoot prefoms excelent feeds anything i put in the mag including semiwadcutter reloads. hp's every time and fires every time i pull the trigger and it hits were it aimed. accurate and reliable reliable to the point were its boring to shoot.20 years in the navy and on a lot of pistol teams shot many of uncles pistols and have owned a lot of custom 45's from a clark long slide, heavy slide on down so i know pistols.and the R.I. is as good as it gets.i dont want to impress people with how much i paid for a pistol that wont work reliably without a major costly fix or one i have to make excuses for at the range."it wasnt designed to feed hollow points" "they all jam" "it dont like this mag""it will be more accurate after the trigger is reworked"and on and on. if it feeds and fires every time and is accurate just what more do you want out of a pistol? just one mans opinion feel free to have your own.

[jacksonco]

Cost does not always equate to dependability. Besides there are a lot of people out there that are not able finacially to spend a lot of money on guns. Low cost guns make it possible for more Americans to participate in their 2ND Amendment rights. Yea sure, the RIA is a low cost gun but most people that have these guns praise them a lot for both their cost and reliability.

[stash247]

Torpedoeman, Jacksonco; Lemmee tell you like this.
I bred, and trained, Dobermans and Rottweilers, for years, for 'Interpersonal diplomacy' issues. These dogs would give their all, on command, for their handler, which is a good thing.
Then i discovered the Australian Cattle Dog, and my world turned upside down!

[Papa Capp]

the springfield gi is runnin about $489 at our local gun store. The xd 45 at about $550 or so.

2 or 3 hundred rounds through a gun is nuthin. we shoot that at one visit to the range sometimes. talk to someone who has put at least 5000 rounds or so through one. if a new gun can do that with no probs. then buy one.

i myself would save the extra and get something tried and true. i think it's worth it, if you just don't have the $ then anything is better than nuthin i guess.

just my opinion.

[45nut]

This is my target for my CHL in Texas. 20 rounds @ 3 yards, 20 rounds @ 5 yards and 10 rounds @ 7 yards. I shot it with my RIA 1911. I plan on carrying it as my primary weapon. I paid less than $350 for it brand new.



Please note that during the 3 and 5 yard excersise, my shots were going into the X and 10 rings. It opened up @ the 7 yard range slightly.

It may be true that, for the most part, you get what you pay for, but with the prices Kimber is asking, they need to provide some kind of .... er ..uhm gratification to go with the gun.

My RIA shoots better than my stainless Colt 1911 I sold to a buddy years ago.

[sonofsarge]

Originally Posted by drobs

I don't care for commander or smaller size 1911's. I experience is that they are harder to shoot and less reliable in general.

My Kimber Tactical Pro is more accurate than my full size Colt, and at least as accurate as my Sig GSR. Plus, it's easier to carry.

[stash247]

In re; little guns, being harder to shoot: I'm with Sonofsarge, on this one!
I think the reaction is to increased recoil (lighter weight) and the difference in cycle time, as the barrel gets shorter.
Both are distinct changes, in the 'nature' of the pistol, but only affect accuracy, if the problem is the shooter!
I have Detonics 3" guns that will shoot with any 5" Government, or Gold Cup, for that matter, that I have ever owned! A 3" Colt Officer's Model, that will do the same, and a Swenson "Bobcat", also a 3" gun, from the early '70's, that will outshoot any of them!
Understand, there are two types of shooters, where recoil is concerned, IMHO, the 'rocks', and the 'sponges'; the 'sponges' simply absorb recoil, suck it up, and roll with it, assuming it to be the normal consequence of firing a weapon; the 'rocks' resist the recoil, forcibly, and are often the subjects of 'discomfort' for their resistance to natural law!
If you are a 'rock' use the extra mass, and shoot better, witout a 'flinch' to mess it up. But a 'sponge' and any gun you raise, is more accurate, because the recoil becomes a 'non issue' Just my opinion, as a perpetual 'sponge'!
My favorite hunting rifle is a .375 H&H, which weighs in at 6#,7 oz!

[torpedoman]

Originally Posted by William81

What is your life worth Robo...save a bit longer and get a Kimber, Springfield Colt or S&W....If you do go with the Rock Island, sooner or later you will gravitate to a higher quailty 1911.

what part of it feeds and fires everything i put in it are you having trouble with. You dont find that level of preformance in many of the high dollar guns.I have some of the high end guns but i'll carry my rock island because it is more reliable than most of them and more accurate than any of them

[WILDCATT]

I have an AMT long slide.used it in compitition,gun shot better than me.never
failed and WILL feed empty cases from clip.got a AMT hardball and it works very well.built a FEDERAL ARMS gun and used it in comp.still got them all and just today took my long slide and shot it put all but one in the scoring rings.windy out there in the field.first I'v shot in seven yrs.had cateracts and coud not see sites.new eyes are great.I will shoot the USRA match this year.I'm 83yrs young.
my take on COLT is the RIA is better made as is the AMT.I had a gold cup it stunk.