Poll - Rock Island 1911s

[kansas45]

I bought my first RIA about 6 months ago. A 45 GI. I was very impressed with it & built it into a Tactical. Picked up a slightly used High Standard 1911 a few months later (also made by Armscore) & found it to be every bit as good as the RIA. Since then, I have added a RIA 1911 in 38 Super & a real RIA Tactical. Thinkin' I'll get a RIA Compact next. I have not found anything wrong with any of these pistols.

[Chuck B]

I had a SAM 1911 and it was a pretty good gun. The slide went back to battery after emptying the mag...with the stock, Wilson, or McCormick. There were a couple of other little annoyances. It shot everything I put in it without any problems and was accurate. I'm much happier with my (used) springfield mil-spec. I can only afford one at a time. Everyone's experiences are different. Buy and trade until you're happy. My 1911 is my primary personal and family defense tool...and I think it's important to have confidence in your firearm. So buy and trade until you're happy and confident.

Regards,

Chuck B

[bmac1911]

My requirements for a 1911 are a little different than most that I’ve read here – but I was stoked to see an RIA topic. I shoot bullsye, so while reliability is important, I’m more concerned with accuracy. That is to say; I only shoot two types of rounds (SWC+Hardball) so all it has to do is shoot those, let’s face it – you can get any gun to shoot any one or two types of ammo. 1911’s though, can be finicky if you try to get too versatile in your ammo choices…at least, in my miniscule opinion

I bought my RIA used and it had the quintessential “rattle” of a service 1911 – which we should all know is normal and integral to the original design. In my head I always associate rattle with a lack of accuracy, which I know isn’t completely true, but is often the difference between a 9” group and a 2” group. The first test-fire in a 50yd tunnel on a Ransom resulted in the worst 10 shot group being over 13” and the best, just between 9 and 10. Good for the 1911 design’s intent, but not so hot for bullseye (understatement?). So I went to work on it…

- Tightened the slide to frame fit; smooth as butter but not a single budge up, down or side to side.
- Fit a new barrel + bushing; barrel is a ‘new’ old Colt NM that I scavenged and the bushing is just a run-o-the mill ‘generic’ oversized bushing (i.e. I’m a cheap bastard, I don’t buy those high dollar parts, though often they are worth it and less work)
- Polished all of the bearing surfaces of the internal parts (to include the inside of the mainspring housing) and re-cut the hammer/sear to the correct angles.
- Re-fit a large steel trigger (I like those for some reason), again, scavenged but un-used and a flat mainspring housing.
- Installed a Bo-Mar rear sight and a hand-cut (from stock steel) front sight (again, I'm cheap - it was cheaper to make a front sight than buy one, LOL)

Apart from the sights, barrel, bushing, trigger and mainspring housing, the rest of the parts are original as I bought it. Finally, on the kitchen stove, in a steel pot, I re-parkerized it. Though, it won’t stay that way, I use the park as an under-layer for the Teflon oven bake coatings.

Okay, so how does it shoot? Suffice it to say – it will out shoot me for years. At the tunnel again, the worst ten shot group was roughly 3 “ and the best was under 2. But I am afraid…

When I was peening the frame and squeezing the slide, the metal felt a lot softer than some of the other 1911’s that I’ve done. So, my fear is that – over time – the RIA won’t hold the work I’ve put into it. But only time will tell, I guess 

[Shooter45]

Thanks for the report. I had a chance to do the same work on an RIA 1911 but declined due to the metal softness. Customer settled on a Norinco. Much better choice in my opinion.

While the RIA can be a reliable carry pistol with a little work, I just don't think it's suitable for bullseye competition. Keep us posted on how the pistol performs. We may end up changing our mind.

[bmac1911]

LOL - yea, I could tell you that the gun works great, but I can't shoot! LOL. The running joke is that "[insert my name :P] builds them better than he shoots". So I have a couple of USAF National Pistol contacts and I'm thinking of pawning the gun off on one of them to see how it "really" does in human hands (i.e. no rest). But yea - the metal is sketchy at best; but I figure, what could it hurt to give it a whirl

[Shooter45]

Now I have owned a couple of USAF National Match pistols built by Ken Hallock and can tell you they drive tacks. Ken retired a couple of years ago. It's a darn shame, I wanted one more.

Or, maybe I could just buy a glock. I have heard they are very accurate.

[torpedoman]

Two subjects that really bring out the snobs in shooting are scopes and 1911's They always reply if you can afford it it aint any good.My rock island is as accurate as any i'v ever owned (except a clark long slide heavy slide,I can afford an expensive pistol,) it has never failed to feed or fire. please fell free to spend as much as you want on a pistol just don't knock one that costs less and functions just as good. If you dont own one and havent shot one you can't honestly comment on it.

[LDBennett]

My RI is accurate but its had a bit of work done on it. Last week I took it to the range. I fired 21 shots off an impromtu rest at 50 feet. 17 shots were inside of 2 inches and the combined 21 shots were within 3 inches. My shaky old hands and aged eyes most certainly explain the size of the group but in my hands and compared to all the other semi-autos I have (8 centerfires that I regularly shoot), this gun is accurate.

It has a fit bushing, group gripper, barrel is re-crowned, all new match trigger system parts, and a Bomar sight rib. This was a project gun originally bought for just the frame (can't buy a frame in California...have to buy a complete gun to get a frame) to use with my Marvel Precison 22LR Conversion Unit One. The frame works excellent in that configuration as well.

In doing the customizing, all the after market internal parts fit well except the safety which took a bunch of work to get to work correctly. I think the parts are made to work with each other but they may be dimensionally a bit different from a perfect 1911 clone. But I made it work! We'll have to see if the gun is durable enough over time. I am certainly happy with it!

LDBennett

[mustang7513]

I have a friend with an FFL who bought and sold 35 of them for $325 each. They are basic and functional though not overly accurate out of the box. Most will need some fine tuning. If you don't have a lot of $ then these are a good place to start for a reliable fun shooter. I did not buy one as I wanted something for IPSC shooting and would have to put too much $ into one to get it ready. Ended up with the Taurus PT1911. Great 1911 for around $500+ and holds true to the 1911 design.

Best bang for the buck right now is the Springfield XD in .45 cal. Not a 1911 like you are talking about but loosely based on the 1911 design. Great and accurate out of the box and I still see them every day for around $500-$550 depending on the model.

[RonC1]

If the poll were limited to those who actually own RIA 1911s, I wonder if the numbers would change.

I am a casual shooter; I don't make a living shooting. I have an RIA. It goes bang when I pull the trigger. It has a decent trigger pull. It looks like a mil-spec 45 and most, if not all, its parts are interchangeable with the govt model. I use GI magazines interchangeably with more expensive ones. All work fine.

Until I can figure out what I would get for the extra hundreds of dollars, I won't spring for the big buck guns. I have heard a lot more complaints about Kimber than I have heard about RIA.

As far as I am concerned, a comment like "it looks like junk" from a non-owner says more about the speaker than the gun.

[LDBennett]

RonC1:

I would add that most internal parts are interchangeable with real Government parts except, in my case, the safety. I spent a lot of time modifying the RI safety (failed) and an after market one (suceeded) to mate with a set of common 1911 "match" internals. The RI safety worked fine with the RI internals, just not with the aftermarket stuff.

The end result of the following was an accurate, excellent shooting 1911 clone: match barrel bushing fitted, Group Gripper, Match sear/hammer/springs, bump style grip safety (no mods to frame), short plastic light trigger, Bomar sights on a Bomar bullseye rib, and slim grips. The stock magazine is excellent so I got two more.

LDBennett

[Shooter45]

The RIA seems to be getting better than the first examples that were imported. I feel the Charles Daly 1911's ( a little more expensive) are better quality but the first ones imported were junk also.

Norinco 1911's are still the best imports when you can find them. Most custom shops will work on them and not so with RIA or Daly.

[stash247]

Ron, gotta agree; them that have used them are a much sounder source of 'qualified' information, than those who have looked at, or read about them!
And, Shooter, a bit of 'inside dope' about the once sub $300 (NIB) Norinco; several were tested, when they were not yet banned from Import, at the Gun Shop at Lackland AFB, here,in San Antonio, Tx; Tommy K said the metallurgy, fit, and function (The finish lacked a bit) was as good or better than what the Air Force was using, from Colt.
For years, I have been fascinated with 'Knock offs', like the 'Pistol Helwan' (Beretta M-1951), the Taurus PT-91/92 ( The double stack Beretta), and many others, which will often not just 'trade parts', but actually out perform the 'parent arm'!
In the case of the Taurus, I like the 'sear engaging' safety, as Beretta did it originally, much better than the 'Hammer drop' design, on the M-9; the triggers seem to be better, as well.
And who, but a fool, could fault the 'knock offs' marketed today, by Baer, Clark, Brown, and others?
"Made in Japan" once was an analogy for the word "Junk", but ask a Toyota Tundra owner why he bought that truck: there must be a reason why he paid full sticker price, instead of buying from one of the domestic 'Big Three' late in the model year, for close to half the money!
Years ago, as Smith and Wesson, Iver Johnson, Colt, and others were getting out of the Bicycle business, and into Firearms, in a serious way, they paid their skilled help well, and trained them right; then came unions, and dues, and demands, that have just about priced domestic products out of the market; the Philapine economy is some different than ours, and it may well be that the cost of the labor, that our unions seek to extract, today, is the 'difference', in the product price.
I read a bit, and NEVER have I read one must be a 'rocket scientist' to fit and assemble a firearm, or to operate the CNC machinery used to produce those parts. I suspect RIA is paying an above average wage, in exchange for a smlilar product!
Ron, I have handled a couple, but never shot a RIA pistol, but based on the almost total lack of 'rattle', feel like they, and the Daly pistol, might just 'COOK', with little to no help!
Opinions are like a**holes, every body has one, but I am inclined to take those from somebody who has 'been there, done that', especially if he's wearing the 'T-Shirt' with a little more weight than somebody who 'read about it'!

[LDBennett]

Somewhere on this site someone offered the opinion, after doing some work on a RIA 1911, that the frame metal may be inferior to other 1911's.

Reviewing a recent ad for the RI I discovered that the frames are 4140, the common steel alloy used in most all guns.

I now believe, with the use of 4140 steel and CNC machining, that the RI 1911 may be as nice a base for a custom 1911 as any of the aftermarket frames out there. Anyone think otherwise, base on fact and experience?

LDBennett

[Shooter45]

LD,

Bill Wilson will do custom work on a Norinco 1911 but won't touch a RIA pistol. Take that for what it's worth.

On the other hand, I've done work on several Charles Daly 1911's with good results. The Daly's got better as the first ones had some problems just like the early RIA's. Perhaps they are correcting their product as they are selling more. They are not as well built as Norinco but they may be getting there.

[LDBennett]

Shooter45:

I dropped misc. after market match quality internals into my RIA including the sear, the grip safety, the disconnetor, a trigger, a tirgger/sear spring, and a hammer with no problems. All fit well and worked together well, except the safety required modifcation to work correctly (??).

I'd bet the RIAs' are not a Kimber or ParaOrdinance or a Colt or any number of other frames on the market but it obviously can be made to work. Mine does and well. I can also understand Wilson's position too as he sells a premium product and putting his work into a "bottom feeder" frame has to look bad for him. The Norico's have been around a long time and have proven they are good enough. The RIA's have not been available for that long yet and are cheap. Some day I suspect they will be as accepted as the Norinco's.

Besides, I can't afford Bill Wilson working on my gun anyway no matter who made my gun. I do my own work and for my purposes it is just fine. My gun probably won't shoot as well as a Wilson but with my mods it shoots better than I can shoot.

It is interesting that Wilson won't work on them, though.

LDBennett

[Shooter45]

LD,

You have to remember that at the time Norinco was considered cheap also. I bought one new in box for $260 out the door. I'd like to have several more at that price so the RIA is not far off. The finish on the Norinco was terrible and if you could get past that things were fine.

I'm starting to think RIA may have the same game plan as their quality seems to be improving as production increases. Let's hope so.

Face it. Their pistols are already better than the first Auto Ordnance 1911. Those had problems and very sharp edges on the slide. But, look at them now. I have built a couple with great results. Even Essex frames and slides have come a long way from their early days. The pin holes even match up.

We must remember not to tell the world when RIA quality goes WAY up. We don't want to raise the price.

[stash247]

I'll put my trust in Tommy K; when the Norinco's were the bottom of the list, he looked, tested, and said they were as good or better than Colt.
I have no dog in this fight, so bear that in mind.
It does not matter, by whom, or where, the steel was made; it does matter, as to alloy, and heat treat.
Bill Wilson would be betting his business, on one bad frame, even if the rest were excellent, give him the room!
I know of no reason that a 4140 frame could not be adequately 'heat treated' in the Phillapine Islands, or BFE, for that matter, so it boils down to 'quality control', whatever that means, at the producer's plant.

[kpd168]

Just purchased a RIA 1911 Govt Model. I have read many of these threads on this and other 1911 forums before making the decision to purchase my RIA. I would first like to say I did not purchase the RIA due to "I cant afford a REAL 1911". Mine was one more of curiosity and positive comments that I have heard over the last few months. Upon receiving the weapon, I noted the quality of the workmanship. The RIA had a very good parkerized finish, tight fit (no rattle), smooth slide operation, and a surprising 4 pound SMOOTH trigger pull. I immediately field stripped, checked, and cleaned. I have had only one opportunity to take the weapon to the range. I used 230 grain, FMJ, factory ammunition as recommended by the manufacturer. I loaded my 8 round factory *Novak* magazine and began shooting off hand at 10 yards. My first 8 rounds fell into the target with a 2 - 3 inch group. I continued firing until I had expired 150 total rounds. I only had two misfeeds, these were my fault. All rounds fell within a 3 to 5 inch group. The 2 inch group was made by squeezing the trigger in a very deliberate manner. One shot at a time. The up-to 5 inch group was made by shooting in a constant trigger pull with very little recover time. Now some might ask, Why at 10 yards? The reason is actually simple. I am planning to use this weapon as an off duty firearm. I dont need to "drive tacks", just be able to hit a 17" square in a reliable manner, if you know what I mean. Defense ! I am not currently carrying the weapon for a couple of reasons. I would like to fire at least 500 to 750 rounds or so before making the statement the weapon is completely reliable. Secondly, I want to test a couple hundred rounds of "Duty Competent" ammunition to check for feeding. As a 18 year law enforcement veteran, I wanted to share this post with this forum because I feel the weapon needs a fair evaluation by a "grunt". My initial evaluation of the weapon: Above average. Would like to hear others experiences with weapon.

[bigfunkytown]

I have a RIA, and a Taurus PT1911. I don't see the difference. I'm more accurate with my Glock 30, but its just something about a 1911. I've looked at the kimber and only see a firearm that I wouldn't want scratched up. My first .45 was a Lama XII. It looked like a 1911 a bit, but its guts weren't anything like one. By trade I an a Parole officer. I go a lot of places solo. I need something that goes bang every time, and if it comes down to it ... will make a nice club.......

[Little Rooster]

Originally Posted by drobs

$375 is less than dealer cost.

thank You

[kpd168]

I purchased a Rock Island 1911 a few months ago. After putting the gun through its paces I finally have an opinion. Good to Very Good! I only found one particular issue with the weapon, the factory magazine. I found the weapon would jam when loaded in its full capacity. It would jam just about every time on the eighth round. It would simply misfeed. I tried another Novak mag from Ivan but still had the same problem. I purchased a Kimpro magazine and the gun cycles perfectly. Not one single misfeed or jam since. I have been hard on the weapon, shooting rounds in singles and in rapid fire, with no problems since the Kimpro mag. I also found the weapon to be quite acurate. I shoot one inch groups out to 15 yards and 3 inch at 25 yards. I dont particularly like the govt sights, awful small, but it is working for me and I dont plan to change a thing. Love the gun and would highly recommend the weapon to anyone out there. PS A friend of mine bought a Springfield and my RIA will out shoot and perform the weapon.

[teb92]

Purchased an RIA 1911A1, last week. I have been to the range with it twice now....not too shabby! Nice tight fit and had no feeding/extracting problems. I thought the accuracy was very acceptable, considering the G.I. sights. They are a little off, but the groupings were reasonably tight.
Considering the $$$, I have no problem recommending them to someone looking for a basic home defense weapon. I live in Illinois and have heard enough stories of people "losing their gun" after using it to defend their homes. I don't want anyone taking any of my guns, especially a Kimber, Wilson etc!!!
Sorry for the rant If you purchase one; find the ammo it likes and slap a pair of crimson trace grips on it ( I don't think the cost of dovetailing Trijicon, Mepro etc. could be justified on these guns)

Tommy

[HAMMERBITE]

This is my first post on this forum.Just my 2 cents is that the RIA I own is a fine machine that has over 4,000 rds through it the only problems are cheap mags and/or ammo.The CS Reps at Advanced Tactical have proven themselves to me as well as the gun itself.I am probably going to purchase one of their Cz-75 clones based on this gun and thier service.

Hammerbite

[delta13soultaker]

I have a Springfield 1911 5" GI .45 that I bought just to have for a solid 1911 to sling .45 acp. The simple pure 1911 feel of it was the biggest appeal. I walked out the door with it for just over $600.

Yesterday a stainless Springfield 1911 5" GI caught my eye at a shop just down the street. The sticker price is $630....I was plotting pretty hard on buying it because I'd like a stainless version of my other Springer...nice contrast I think.

But laying on the same shelf is a RIA Officer model. Plain black, smooth grips...pretty sure a 3" barrel. Price is $420. I recognized it that second as a nice piece to pull duty as a car gun/alternate carry gun. (I wouldn't lose sleep if one of my cars were stolen/wrecked/robbed with a $400 pistol inside etc etc.)


Anyways, I decided to think on it a little while. Stainless GI Springer to go along with my parkerized GI Springer......or that little RIA Officer.

A couple questions for some of the 1911 ol' timers....

Government size mags (7 or 8 rd) will work in an Officer model as spare mags right? Want to verify that before I look like a dummy at the shop.

And....any advice or info on problems particular to the Officer model not normally encountered with a Government size 1911. I've seen in threads where people indicated about probs but never said exactly what. (I'm gonna guess the 3" barrel/short slide has some feeding gremlins.)