military trivia ..... - The Firearms Forum

Jay · 01-17-2005, 07:56 PM

Until my father told me, I never where the term "the whole nine yards" originated. It may be old hat for some, but I thought the answer was pretty neat.

Returning pilots were often asked by their armorers how much ammo needed to be replaced in their aircraft. The .50 cal belts in many fighter aircraft just happened to be 27 feet long........the response many times was "the whole nine yards".

jamesed · 02-04-2005, 02:27 AM

A couple of items of Trivia.

1. What was the frist foreign country or part of a foreign country occupied by US Forces in World War Two?

2. What ship did the english battle fleet mistake for the KMS Bismarck when it began its attack on the Bismarck on 24 May 1941? The battleshp HMS Prince of Wales and the crusers HMS Norfolk and HMS Suffolk each fired a couple of broad sides at the vessel.

3. Where and when was the first infantry battle between american forces and German Forces in the World War Two time frame?

1 On April 10, 1940, Franklin D. Roosevelt declared a protectorate over the Danish coloy of Greenland and ordered US Land, Sea and Air Forces to repell any invaders in Greenland.

2 The USCGS Modoc. The Modoc was spotted by the Bismarck some hours earlier but didn't open fire on the cutter. Such could not be said of the English.

3 On September 12 1941 the USCGS Northland sent a 12 man landing party ashore at Franz Joseph Fjord on the east cost of Greenland for an assualt on a German Weather station. The attack captured 3 men and a code book. The germans were taken ito custody and interned for he duration of the war in the United states.

Remember all this shooting and fighting took place before the attack on Pearl Harbor.

SouthernMoss · 02-04-2005, 09:49 PM

Jay, I never knew that either. Thanks for the enlightenment!

Jamesed, thanks for the WWII trivia!

Marlin · 02-04-2005, 10:37 PM

I knew about the whole nine yards and that the Norfolk, Suffolk and Prince of Wales fired on one of our ships. However, I didn't remember that it was a Coast Guard Cutter.

I did know about the Greenland adventures, also.

It sure does bring back memories of those times. Thanks, Jay.

22WRF · 02-05-2005, 08:08 PM

A yard was one sail on a square rigged sailing ship..
To have the whole nine yards means being under full sail.

SouthernMoss · 02-05-2005, 08:27 PM

Hmmmm.... seems this is a widely discussed topic. See: http://www.randomhouse.com/wotd/inde...?date=19971128

Marlin · 02-05-2005, 09:36 PM

It had to have an origin earlier than the sixties, I grew up hearing that expression, in the late 30s and 40s. Don't know the real origin but we always heard during and following the war, WWII, the fighter belts as being "the whole nine yards".

Xracer · 02-06-2005, 08:32 AM

Well, I guess that proves that we shouldn't go off half-cocked, until we know the full answer, lock, stock, & barrel.

jamesed · 02-06-2005, 11:44 AM

How the Marines adopted the Garand M-1 rifle.

Initally the Marines refused to accept the M-1 Garand because it was not as accurate or dependable as their M1903 rifles.

That all changed when at the higth of the Guadalcanal Campaign, the Marines on Guadalcanal were reinforced by the US Army's 164th Infantry regiment that was armed with the Garand. During one night, a Japaneese Banzi attack on the 164th, was easily stopped even theough the 164th was light on the number of machine guns. The rapid fire of regiments M-1's more than compensated for the lack of machine guns.

Shortly after that night General Van Griffit of the Marines requested that the Marines be issued the M-1.

Xracer · 02-06-2005, 01:57 PM

.....and, as the story goes, when the 1st Marines were finally relieved, a lot of those M-1s left with them.

The Gyrines stole those poor Doggies blind!

Jay · 02-06-2005, 04:31 PM

Well guys/gals.......I must fess up...... I've never measured the length of the ammo belt on any belt-fed automatic weapon. However, my father flew P-40's, and P-38's in the Pacific, and since I have photos of him loading the ammo belts into the ammo bay of a P-38, I'll stick with the version he relayed to me, if for no other reason than he's' my father. (insert BIG respectful grin here)

SouthernMoss · 02-06-2005, 04:36 PM

Sounds like a good enough reason to me, Jay!

SixForSure · 02-20-2006, 05:13 PM

Where was the last shot of the Civil War fired?

In the Bering Straight more than two months after the surrender.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naval_B...ican_Civil_War

polishshooter · 02-20-2006, 11:02 PM

Actually, the Marines had tested the M1 prior to the war, and WANTED to adopt it but couldn't get any after the Army got first dibs...most Marines who had NEVER fired one didn't want one, called it the Buck Rodgers Toy and other names, but any that HAD tested one wanted one.

They tested it pretty well too, with test groups made up of memebers of the USMC rifle team and another with recruits right out of Paris or Dago. Experts shot WELL with them, as good as their National Match 03s, and the recruits shot BETTER than they did with 03s....

This isn't the first time there have been "dueling" stories about old prases and terms, it's happened many times. I have no doubt that BOTH are actually correct, from the perspective of when the "reconteurs" first heard it!

We had a LONG discussion one time about "Freezing the balls off a brass monkey," and there are stories ALL over the 'net about it, but it turns out the one most quoted, about frozen iron cannon balls ready for service on deck rolling off the rack called a "Brass Monkey" when it was really cold is really an urban myth...

IBFrank · 05-08-2006, 03:00 AM

And don't forget the Johnson rifles issued to Pacific Marines. As to the whole 9 yds. It may have been an old sailing wag but I've always heard it was the .50 cal. belt length per gun allowed in most bombers. If you gave 'em the whole nine yards, you were out of ammo and got out your 1911. What was the least desired gunner's position on bombers? Tail or belly?

Red Neck64 · 06-19-2006, 07:32 PM

The whole nine yards comes from WW1, it refers to the machine gun belts on WW1 aeroplanes it was nine yards long.And has been a popular term since then.

JohnK3 · 06-20-2006, 12:25 AM

Red, there's much debate on the true origin of "whole nine yards."

Pop, I heard one of the reasons the belly gunner was a hated position was because of the high casualty rate in the belly gun dome, not because of the tailgunner getting more action.

Red Neck64 · 06-20-2006, 08:17 AM

JohnK3,The whole nine yards baffled me for many years,then one night I was watching the History Channel that I am addicted too.The topic was about aircraft of WW1 and the firepower afforded too them,a ground man was loading a machine gun with a belt of ammo.The narrator stated the belt was nine yards long hence "I GAVE HIM THE WHOLE NINE YARDS"

Also on the History Channel the topic was bombing aircraft of WW2,I think the B17 was the one with the dreaded belly gun position.Why it was dreaded is if the hydraulic system was shot out, the landing gear could not be lowerd.So if the belly gunner did not have his position lined up with the enter exit hatch,with no hydraulic pressure and landing gear up he was domed.

JohnK3 · 06-20-2006, 09:20 AM

While the History Channel is a good channel and usually has done its homework, it's not an authoritative source.

It's also been attributed to the nine yards of an M60 ammo belt as used by door-gunners in choppers.

It's also been attributed to the nine yards of a Browning M2 ammo belt in WWII bombers.

It's been attributed to the number of cubic yards in a cement mixer.

It's been attributed to the amount of wool in a Scotsman's kilt.

It's been attributed to the amount of material in either a man's suit or a nun's habit.

It's been attributed to the number of yardarms on a sailing ship.

It's been attributed to any number of things. What's sure about the phrase is that we don't know for sure where it came from.

Red Neck64 · 06-20-2006, 10:30 AM

JohnK3,Now you have me back on square one just as I put my mind to rest .I guess ignorance is bliss?Here is more confusion.

http://www.yaelf.com/nineyards.shtml

01-17-2005, 07:56 PM	#1
Jay Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Indiana Posts: 1,286	military trivia ..... Until my father told me, I never where the term "the whole nine yards" originated. It may be old hat for some, but I thought the answer was pretty neat. Returning pilots were often asked by their armorers how much ammo needed to be replaced in their aircraft. The .50 cal belts in many fighter aircraft just happened to be 27 feet long........the response many times was "the whole nine yards". __________________ "For those who fought for it, freedom has a flavor the protected cannot taste." "USMC 8652, 2531, RVN Jun '67, - May 69" --> Last edited by Jay; 01-17-2005 at 07:59 PM..

02-04-2005, 02:27 AM	#2
jamesed Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Clackamas County Oregon Posts: 38	Re: military trivia ..... A couple of items of Trivia. 1. What was the frist foreign country or part of a foreign country occupied by US Forces in World War Two? 2. What ship did the english battle fleet mistake for the KMS Bismarck when it began its attack on the Bismarck on 24 May 1941? The battleshp HMS Prince of Wales and the crusers HMS Norfolk and HMS Suffolk each fired a couple of broad sides at the vessel. 3. Where and when was the first infantry battle between american forces and German Forces in the World War Two time frame? 1 On April 10, 1940, Franklin D. Roosevelt declared a protectorate over the Danish coloy of Greenland and ordered US Land, Sea and Air Forces to repell any invaders in Greenland. 2 The USCGS Modoc. The Modoc was spotted by the Bismarck some hours earlier but didn't open fire on the cutter. Such could not be said of the English. 3 On September 12 1941 the USCGS Northland sent a 12 man landing party ashore at Franz Joseph Fjord on the east cost of Greenland for an assualt on a German Weather station. The attack captured 3 men and a code book. The germans were taken ito custody and interned for he duration of the war in the United states. Remember all this shooting and fighting took place before the attack on Pearl Harbor.

02-04-2005, 09:49 PM	#3
SouthernMoss Admin Tech Staff Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: SW MS Contributor Posts: 10,651	Re: military trivia ..... Jay, I never knew that either. Thanks for the enlightenment! Jamesed, thanks for the WWII trivia! __________________ My Second protects your First "I declare to you that woman must not depend upon the protection of man, but must be taught to protect herself, and there I take my stand." - Susan B Anthony

02-04-2005, 10:37 PM	#4
Marlin TFF Admin Staff Chief Counselor Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: At SouthernMoss' side forever! Contributor Posts: 13,854	Re: military trivia ..... I knew about the whole nine yards and that the Norfolk, Suffolk and Prince of Wales fired on one of our ships. However, I didn't remember that it was a Coast Guard Cutter. I did know about the Greenland adventures, also. It sure does bring back memories of those times. Thanks, Jay. __________________ *The flag represents a living country and is itself considered a living thing.* *The only criminal class native to the United States is Congress.*

02-05-2005, 08:08 PM	#5
22WRF Advanced Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Pea Ridge, FL Contributor Posts: 4,271	Re: military trivia ..... A yard was one sail on a square rigged sailing ship.. To have the whole nine yards means being under full sail. __________________ NRA GOA CCRKBA Happiness is a warm barrel

02-05-2005, 08:27 PM	#6
SouthernMoss Admin Tech Staff Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: SW MS Contributor Posts: 10,651	Re: military trivia ..... Hmmmm.... seems this is a widely discussed topic. See: http://www.randomhouse.com/wotd/inde...?date=19971128 __________________ My Second protects your First "I declare to you that woman must not depend upon the protection of man, but must be taught to protect herself, and there I take my stand." - Susan B Anthony

02-05-2005, 09:36 PM	#7
Marlin TFF Admin Staff Chief Counselor Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: At SouthernMoss' side forever! Contributor Posts: 13,854	Re: military trivia ..... It had to have an origin earlier than the sixties, I grew up hearing that expression, in the late 30s and 40s. Don't know the real origin but we always heard during and following the war, WWII, the fighter belts as being "the whole nine yards". __________________ *The flag represents a living country and is itself considered a living thing.* *The only criminal class native to the United States is Congress.*

02-06-2005, 08:32 AM	#8
Xracer TFF Admin Staff Mediator Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Minn-eeee-sota, ya, sure, you bet! Posts: 9,144	Re: military trivia ..... Well, I guess that proves that we shouldn't go off half-cocked, until we know the full answer, lock, stock, & barrel.

02-06-2005, 11:44 AM	#9
jamesed Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Clackamas County Oregon Posts: 38	Re: military trivia ..... How the Marines adopted the Garand M-1 rifle. Initally the Marines refused to accept the M-1 Garand because it was not as accurate or dependable as their M1903 rifles. That all changed when at the higth of the Guadalcanal Campaign, the Marines on Guadalcanal were reinforced by the US Army's 164th Infantry regiment that was armed with the Garand. During one night, a Japaneese Banzi attack on the 164th, was easily stopped even theough the 164th was light on the number of machine guns. The rapid fire of regiments M-1's more than compensated for the lack of machine guns. Shortly after that night General Van Griffit of the Marines requested that the Marines be issued the M-1.

02-06-2005, 01:57 PM	#10
Xracer TFF Admin Staff Mediator Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Minn-eeee-sota, ya, sure, you bet! Posts: 9,144	Re: military trivia ..... .....and, as the story goes, when the 1st Marines were finally relieved, a lot of those M-1s left with them. The Gyrines stole those poor Doggies blind!

02-06-2005, 04:31 PM	#11
Jay Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Indiana Posts: 1,286	Re: military trivia ..... Well guys/gals.......I must fess up...... I've never measured the length of the ammo belt on any belt-fed automatic weapon. However, my father flew P-40's, and P-38's in the Pacific, and since I have photos of him loading the ammo belts into the ammo bay of a P-38, I'll stick with the version he relayed to me, if for no other reason than he's' my father. (insert BIG respectful grin here) __________________ "For those who fought for it, freedom has a flavor the protected cannot taste." "USMC 8652, 2531, RVN Jun '67, - May 69" Last edited by Jay; 02-06-2005 at 04:32 PM..

02-06-2005, 04:36 PM	#12
SouthernMoss Admin Tech Staff Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: SW MS Contributor Posts: 10,651	Re: military trivia ..... Sounds like a good enough reason to me, Jay! __________________ My Second protects your First "I declare to you that woman must not depend upon the protection of man, but must be taught to protect herself, and there I take my stand." - Susan B Anthony

02-20-2006, 05:13 PM	#13
SixForSure Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Dakotas Posts: 19	Re: military trivia ..... Where was the last shot of the Civil War fired? In the Bering Straight more than two months after the surrender. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naval_B...ican_Civil_War

02-20-2006, 11:02 PM	#14
polishshooter Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Indiana Contributor Posts: 7,879	Re: military trivia ..... Actually, the Marines had tested the M1 prior to the war, and WANTED to adopt it but couldn't get any after the Army got first dibs...most Marines who had NEVER fired one didn't want one, called it the Buck Rodgers Toy and other names, but any that HAD tested one wanted one. They tested it pretty well too, with test groups made up of memebers of the USMC rifle team and another with recruits right out of Paris or Dago. Experts shot WELL with them, as good as their National Match 03s, and the recruits shot BETTER than they did with 03s.... This isn't the first time there have been "dueling" stories about old prases and terms, it's happened many times. I have no doubt that BOTH are actually correct, from the perspective of when the "reconteurs" first heard it! We had a LONG discussion one time about "Freezing the balls off a brass monkey," and there are stories ALL over the 'net about it, but it turns out the one most quoted, about frozen iron cannon balls ready for service on deck rolling off the rack called a "Brass Monkey" when it was really cold is really an urban myth... __________________ The problems we face today are there because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living. Last edited by polishshooter; 02-20-2006 at 11:03 PM..

05-08-2006, 03:00 AM	#15
IBFrank V.I.P. Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: So. Ohio Posts: 51	Re: military trivia ..... And don't forget the Johnson rifles issued to Pacific Marines. As to the whole 9 yds. It may have been an old sailing wag but I've always heard it was the .50 cal. belt length per gun allowed in most bombers. If you gave 'em the whole nine yards, you were out of ammo and got out your 1911. What was the least desired gunner's position on bombers? Tail or belly?

06-19-2006, 07:32 PM	#16
Red Neck64 Former Guest Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: North N.Y.STATE Posts: 330	Re: military trivia ..... The whole nine yards comes from WW1, it refers to the machine gun belts on WW1 aeroplanes it was nine yards long.And has been a popular term since then.

06-20-2006, 12:25 AM	#17
JohnK3 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 1,636	Re: military trivia ..... Red, there's much debate on the true origin of "whole nine yards." Pop, I heard one of the reasons the belly gunner was a hated position was because of the high casualty rate in the belly gun dome, not because of the tailgunner getting more action.

06-20-2006, 08:17 AM	#18
Red Neck64 Former Guest Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: North N.Y.STATE Posts: 330	Re: military trivia ..... JohnK3,The whole nine yards baffled me for many years,then one night I was watching the History Channel that I am addicted too.The topic was about aircraft of WW1 and the firepower afforded too them,a ground man was loading a machine gun with a belt of ammo.The narrator stated the belt was nine yards long hence "I GAVE HIM THE WHOLE NINE YARDS" Also on the History Channel the topic was bombing aircraft of WW2,I think the B17 was the one with the dreaded belly gun position.Why it was dreaded is if the hydraulic system was shot out, the landing gear could not be lowerd.So if the belly gunner did not have his position lined up with the enter exit hatch,with no hydraulic pressure and landing gear up he was domed.

06-20-2006, 09:20 AM	#19
JohnK3 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 1,636	Re: military trivia ..... While the History Channel is a good channel and usually has done its homework, it's not an authoritative source. It's also been attributed to the nine yards of an M60 ammo belt as used by door-gunners in choppers. It's also been attributed to the nine yards of a Browning M2 ammo belt in WWII bombers. It's been attributed to the number of cubic yards in a cement mixer. It's been attributed to the amount of wool in a Scotsman's kilt. It's been attributed to the amount of material in either a man's suit or a nun's habit. It's been attributed to the number of yardarms on a sailing ship. It's been attributed to any number of things. What's sure about the phrase is that we don't know for sure where it came from.

06-20-2006, 10:30 AM	#20
Red Neck64 Former Guest Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: North N.Y.STATE Posts: 330	Re: military trivia ..... JohnK3,Now you have me back on square one just as I put my mind to rest .I guess ignorance is bliss?Here is more confusion. http://www.yaelf.com/nineyards.shtml